Marriage woes

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Hi everyone,

I’m brand new here, but came specifically to get some good advice.

My husband and I have been married a little over 3 years. I entered the church the week before our wedding, and had been a faithful non-denominational Protestant since I was very young. So needless to say, my entrance into the church brough about a lot of changes. I would say that I was well-informed about what those changes meant, and as prepared as I could have been about my decision to enter the church.

However, some of the realities that have come about have placed a great deal of stress on me and as a result, our marriage. We started off using NFP and had two kids the first two years of our marriage. Now I am so afraid of marital relations, that I keep about a 3-week window every month to be extra sure that a pregnancy will not occur. It’s not that I don’t know how to use NFP correctly, but that I conceived #2 when I totally thought it was safe (no regrets). Plus, my cycles have changed a lot since my pregnancies, making them feel a bit unpredictable. Anyway, it seems that once we’re in the “safe” window of time, my husband has forgotten about/lost interest in sex. I’ve wound up feeling like I’m doing a lot of “work” (charting) for nothing. NFP had not fostered any amount of tenderness between us, has not enriched our marriage by any means, and has ushered apathy into our marriage. We both just “turn off” and forget about each other, while he proceeds to “relieve” himself and confess every week. (I’ve caught him a few times/suspect the rest of it) My husband is a cradle catholic, and very proud of the fact that we practice NFP.

I know the church’s teachings on these things. I just get so frustrated when I think about how these rules have been kept in place for years, by people who don’t know the stresses that can come with family life. My husband and I live without the blessings that the marital act was meant to bring into our marriage and therefore, we live inside a compromised union. I’m not happy in my marriage because I see only responsibilities (bills, diapers, groceries, chores, work, meetings, school, etc.), and the very few opportunites we do find for sex, are often in the “unsafe” zone. Even though there are other ways to physically please each other during those times, we’ll end up in mortal sin and possibly damned to hell. It’s just so cruel. Plus, it goes against my conscience/logic to think that God would send me to hell because my husband and I orgasm outside of intercourse. My upbringing taught me a sin is a sin. Now as a Catholic, there are so many rules, nuances, and technicalities that I sometimes feel I am sinning by being so “legalistic”.

I may be rambling a bit, sorry. I just want advice and/or others who are willing to share their experiences with these things.

Thank you so much for reading/responding.

God Bless

P.S. I have not shared with him about how I feel, because I already feel like I’ve let him down in so many other ways.
 
Are you still working with your NFP practitioner? Have you looked into other methods to combine with your current one to have more confidence in your infertile days? (I would be working hard with you if I knew you were avoiding that much out of fear of pregnancy.)

What might help is understanding that God may bless you with more children. He won’t create a child He doesn’t intend to create. He also won’t give you more than you can handle.

God doesn’t send people to hell for being in a state of mortal sin. The sinner choses to separate him/herself from Him by committing the sin.

Perhaps now is the time to learn another method on NFP as well as to reevaluate your reasons for avoiding a pregnancy right now. (I am not questioning your reasons.) Maybe, even if now is a time to avoid, you will see that your reasons aren’t so drastic that they require such fear of pregnancy.

May you continue to feel continue to feel God’s blessings as you faithfully work this out.
 
I will keep you in my prayers. I know trying to follow the Churchs teachings can be challenging at times. I try to think of the "rules" as the Churchs way of guiding me toward heaven. Although they may not seem like it at times, the Church`s teachings also protect us from a lot of unnecessary grief (the consequences of what happens when we sin etc).

Do you know other women practicing NFP who could give you some advice and spiritual support? Choosing a different NFP method, or combining methods might also help.

It might help to find a spiritual advisor, where you could talk about these things freely, and get some sound and solid advice. Also, maybe there is a way to involve your husband more in the charting, so the burden and work is not all on your shoulders. I know this is only possible to an extent though.

I will keep you in my prayers.

Sincerely,

Maria1212
 
In addition to finding an NFP method that you feel safe with, I think you really need to talk to your husband about your feelings. Communication is so important in marriage. I am divorced and had lived with an abusive marriage, while obviously a lot of what went wrong in my marriage was not my fault, I think the one thing that I did that really contributed to the problems was to keep them to myself and not express my feelings or concerns. I think if you are in a marriage where it is safe to talk about what is on your mind, then it is really important to do so.

I think some of the reasons that NFP has the possibility of drawing couples closer together and building a strong marriage is that it encourages communication and it has a sacrificial nature to it. I think you need to be talking to your husband about what is going on with your body while you are charting. I think he needs to know that you desire him and want to feel close to him. I think you also need to let him know that when you are sacrificing, and he is not because he is taking care of matters himself, you feel cheated. By pleasuring himself, he is stealing that intimacy from you. There isn’t going to be that same sense of anticipation and tenderness when you are finally together if he has been accustomed to focusing on his own pleasure.

The answer to your marital woes in not to engage in other forms of orgasm outside of intercourse. That is only going to lead the two of you further astray from your shared goal of true marital intimacy.

Really, I think you need to start by really talking to your husband. Let him know where you are at and where you’d like to go with him as a married couple.
 
**I am also a convert and I am also struggling to follow all the “rules”. But, in my heart, i know they are not just rules set up to limit my pleasures and complicate my life. I know they are for my own good and, even though I can’t always see them, the consequences for breaking a “rule” are huge. It is a simple matter of action=consequence.

I try to look at it from the point of view of a child and it’s parents. Now that I am a mom I can understand it even more. We set limits and rules for our children to protect and guide them. We don’t tell our little ones not to touch the stove because we want to be cruel and take away their fun…we are protecting them from a potential danger. Sure, the child may touch it behind our backs when it’s not on and think we’re big meanies when nothing bad happens…but we are protecting them from potential** hazards.

I have many days where I question God and shout “WHY???” But then I refocus on all of the good and put the bad in perspective. Sure life sucks sometimes. But it wasn’t a walk in the park for Jesus, the saints, or many of our brothers and sisters. Struggle is a part of life. Take the good and be joyful. Learn from the difficult. This is life.

And is an orgasm really worth your eternal soul? God would not send you to hell, you would buy your own ticket. He is pretty clear on what is right and what is wrong. It is our duty to obey whether or not we fully understand or agree. But most often we act like 2 year olds throwing a tantrum because we want things our own way. Well, just like the two year olds grow up and can then understand why their parents set so many “rules” we too shall understand if we keep our eye on the prize of heaven and spending eternity with God Himself.

malia
 
Wow, we have some in common. My husband and I just celebrated our son’s first birthday, in a few weeks we’ll celebrate our 2nd anniversary, and this Christmas, we’ll welcome our second child.

I too feel like the charting is all up to me. My husband is a convert and he doesn’t really complain about our method of family planning, but he doesn’t really participate either. He is a night owl and comes to bed at least 3-4 hours after me. I have told him time and time again to look at my chart, I used to tell him when we were ‘safe,’ but he doesn’t really seem interested. Needless to say, he didn’t ask those 2 occasions that he woke me from peaceful slumber whether we were ‘safe’ or not. We too have some work to do w/ communication.

I remember being terrified about intercourse during my breastfeeding charting, but I didn’t hesitate to call up our local NFP instructor. Also, I am very fortunate to have a Catholic mommy’s group in our parish where other women can relate and give me some advice.

My husband struggled w/ pornography a little and satisfying himself even a little after we were married and I had no idea. To this day, I’m not sure how he goes so long w/out ‘it’ except that our bedtimes are so far apart.

I think for me the only saving grace is my mommy’s group and my husband being part of the Knights of Columbus - although I’m sure they don’t talk about family planning as much as us gals, I still think it’s helpful to be around like-minded people. My husband’s family can’t seem to grasp the concept of our method. The oldest brother had a vasectomy as an ultimatum his wife gave him for getting back together, so their 7yo son will never know the gift of a sibling. And the other brother we’re pretty sure he and his wife will never have children. They don’t even talk about it.

So you definitely gotta have support from like-minded people. Yes, I too feel the burden of the bills and work and the baby, I think women naturally assume more responsibility than they have to. But don’t underestimate your husband. He probably just needs to feel included.

Praying for you and all mommies.
 
My DH of 13 years has always (before marriage also) struggled with self-gratification, and it didn’t stop with matrimony. One thing that has really helped us is Marriage Encounter. I highly recommend it for any couple that needs to learn communication skills. It teaches you to really listen to each other, and to learn to express your feelings to one another without judgement. There are Marriage Encounter weekends worldwide, so all you need to do is google it, and you’ll get one in your area. It’s so totally worth it!!

For the wife whose hubby comes to bed 2-3 hours later, he may still be doing self-gratifying thing; that was my dh’s modus operandi. Unfortunately, there’s enough garbage on regular TV to support that sin.

Blessings to all who struggle with this!
 
Hi everyone,

Thank you for your replies and all of the advice. I have worked a little bit with the original NFP practitioner, although she isn’t Catholic. I converted 4 years ago and even though his side is Catholic, I still don’t know ANYONE ELSE who practices this way. That sort of compounds all of my frustrations because I don’t have anyone to talk to about it.

I do believe I should reach out to a spiritual advisor. I have to do something at this point. The irony of all of this is that, it was the church’s stance on ABC (and the fact that they’re the only ones holding on to this view), and the strong stance against abortion, that drew me to it. When I learned that the Pill was abortifacient and the Catholic church was the only one speaking up against it, I knew I had to take a closer look. But now that I’m living it, and have learned of couples who have such short cycles that they may only find 2 or 3 days a month to have sex, I feel that the church is unsympathetic and contradictory in some ways. I say “contradictory” mostly because they talk about how marital sex is unitive and procreative. But for the most part, it’s the procreative aspect that is emphasized, and the unitive aspect is diminished, IMO. There are so many technicalities- I even read a link yesterday that a poster on this board posted somewhere where they are talking about how it is wrong for a couple to maximize their “carnal” pleasure by doing certain things during sex.

Honestly, I have a hard time feeling like my bedroom is a private place for my husband and I to share because I hear the Catholic Church’s voice in there all the time. Seriously. Sometimes during sex, I’m thinking about what the church would say about this or that. And, in my OP, I mentioned that I feel as though these “rules” are promulgated by men who have no idea what the pressures inside true family life are like. Anyone care to comment?
 
Anyway, it seems that once we’re in the “safe” window of time, my husband has forgotten about/lost interest in sex. I’ve wound up feeling like I’m doing a lot of “work” (charting) for nothing. NFP had not fostered any amount of tenderness between us, has not enriched our marriage by any means, and has ushered apathy into our marriage. We both just “turn off” and forget about each other, while he proceeds to “relieve” himself and confess every week. (I’ve caught him a few times/suspect the rest of it) My husband is a cradle catholic, and very proud of the fact that we practice NFP.
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First of all, let’s stop making angry comments at priests. Please. Blaming the messenger won’t help this situation. (And I love the comment from one very holy priest who said that of course priests understand the challenge married couples face, having to exercise self control sometimes. Priests have to do it 100% of the time for their entire lives! If anyone understands, it’s a priest!) And as a convert you may not be aware of something. Every priest knows very well what is involved in family life. They all grew up in one. Many have large numbers of brothers and sisters and they have parents and they know full well what is involved. Plus they hear all about the problems in the confessional and in counselling sessions. Your statement is unfair.

The Catholic Church is the messenger here. Telling you what is written deeply in your heart and what sex really means. It’s not rules and regulations, it’s about not being used. It’s about being treated with dignity.

Some men may proudly follow the letter of the law, and practice NFP on paper, but their whole outlook is as if they are using ABC. That was my xh. Every encounter (the few we had together) was predicated with “Are you safe?” That made me feel real good. As wonderful as our children were, he only wanted me if we were “safe.” But pretty soon that disappeared and he refused any intercourse at all, even when I told him I was safe.

Because he would say “I don’t want to have sex just because you tell me we can.” It wasn’t about making love, being unitive or procreative. He was a control freak and it was all about him being in control. And he couldn’t control my body or my hormones. And here is where masturbation’s greatest evil is. It deprives the wife who is following God’s law, while a husband who is violating it satisfies himself. Some men only want what they can’t have. The forbidden fruit. Doing what they aren’t supposed to be doing, and then not wanting it when they are allowed to have it.

Those problems go much deeper. I suspect NFP didn’t bring apathy or anger or bitterness into your marriage. But it does shine a flashlight on those issues in a way, where ABC will artificially mask it. Wives who use ABC are being used by their husbands and have their health at risk for the privelege. And let’s put it this way… they have a very high divorce rate. So that isn’t a cure for marriage problems!
I’m not happy in my marriage because I see only responsibilities (bills, diapers, groceries, chores, work, meetings, school, etc.)
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Your words and your statements about doing all the work and the burden of child care… all of this leads me to believe you aren’t just carrying 100% of the charting responsibility and all that work for little benefit to you. You are doing all the household work and child care work also. Right? Or most of it. The apathy here is on the part of your husband. You are thinking of him, but he is not thinking of you. He is doing nothing to help you outside the bedroom either. Where is he in this marriage and being a father? Maybe you’d be more interested in him if he were more loving and helpful in fulfilling his responsibilities as a father and husband.

It’s as if you are making a wonderful meal for him. A banquet. But you have to go through steps to prepare it for him. And it has to bake and it takes time. But it will be your gift to him when it is the proper time. Meanwhile, he’s off in another room with a bag of chips and soda snacking and filling his face. By the time his real dinner is done, he has no appetite. Your gift has no appeal. And he’s gotten no nutrition.

Same situation. You aren’t hearing the Catholic Church in your head. You are hearing your own conscience ask you if what you are doing is really mutual self-giving and really loving, or if you are just being used as a masturbatory appliance by your husband. Because it seems he can get his pleasure whether you are there or not. He’s telling you that you are not essential in the equation.

THAT is the reason for your marriage problems. And I suspect it plays out in other areas far from your bedroom.
 
CONTINUED…
Get counselling. Go to Retrouvaille. Find a mentor couple, maybe a man who will talk to him. Talk to your priest jointly. Outward appearances seem to be very important to your dh. He’s got all of the honor of being an NFP couple, but none of the real sacrifice. Shame on him. But he will have none of the real blessings either.

He’s not proving to you he has any self control whatsoever. And he’s not telling you by his whole body that you are worth waiting for. Deep down, you know that. And that is the reason for your marriage issues. I’ve lived it. I know the pain.

Make sure you are using a cervical mucous/temperature crosscheck method of NFP. That leads to much more certainty. But it won’t change a husband whose heart really isn’t where it belongs. ABC wouldn’t change that either. It might just postpone the inevitable disaster.
 
Liberanosamalo said:
Those problems go much deeper. I suspect NFP didn’t bring apathy or anger or bitterness into your marriage. But it does shine a flashlight on those issues in a way, where ABC will artificially mask it. Wives who use ABC are being used by their husbands and have their health at risk for the privelege. And let’s put it this way… they have a very high divorce rate. So that isn’t a cure for marriage problems!
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A great post. You have it exactly right.
 
Liberanosamalo said:
First of all, let’s stop making angry comments at priests. Please. Blaming the messenger won’t help this situation. (And I love the comment from one very holy priest who said that of course priests understand the challenge married couples face, having to exercise self control sometimes. Priests have to do it 100% of the time for their entire lives! If anyone understands, it’s a priest!) And as a convert you may not be aware of something. Every priest knows very well what is involved in family life. They all grew up in one. Many have large numbers of brothers and sisters and they have parents and they know full well what is involved. Plus they hear all about the problems in the confessional and in counselling sessions. Your statement is unfair.

I apologize that I come across as being angry at priests. I’ve heard the reasoning before that priests understand this sacrifice because they have to do it 100% of the time. But they took vows of celibacy, and I didn’t. The unitive aspect is there for couples because it helps relieve/gloss over some of the tensions of things like housework/bills/diapers, IMO. It brings you closer to one human being than you will ever be to another. And yes, priests grew up in families, but I didn’t know what having my own family was like- until I had one of my own. They can understand so far as theology can take them. But they can’t truly understand. That’s what I meant, and I hope that doesn’t offend anyone.

It’s as if you are making a wonderful meal for him. A banquet. But you have to go through steps to prepare it for him. And it has to bake and it takes time. But it will be your gift to him when it is the proper time. Meanwhile, he’s off in another room with a bag of chips and soda snacking and filling his face. By the time his real dinner is done, he has no appetite. Your gift has no appeal. And he’s gotten no nutrition.

You make very good points here. That’s exactly how it feels.
I do see that NFP is not the cause of our problems and sex alone isn’t going to fix all of this. But how do we get that “unitive” aspect back into our marriage? Because it’s VERY difficult to use NFP when you’re trying to avoid pregnancy and still be “open” to life. I have 2 children already, ages 1 and 2. We’ve been married for only 3 years. It takes a lot emotionally and physically to keep up with the demands of child-rearing. I can’t have a child every year. So I am terrified when we have sex. That’s not even the “proper” use, but I can’t help it.
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OOPS! I guess I don’t know yet how to include quotes from prior posts and type in amongst them. Sorry!

These were MY words from the prior post…

I apologize that I come across as being angry at priests. I’ve heard the reasoning before that priests understand this sacrifice because they have to do it 100% of the time. But they took vows of celibacy, and I didn’t. The unitive aspect is there for couples because it helps relieve/gloss over some of the tensions of things like housework/bills/diapers, IMO. It brings you closer to one human being than you will ever be to another. And yes, priests grew up in families, but I didn’t know what having my own family was like- until I had one of my own. They can understand so far as theology can take them. But they can’t truly understand. That’s what I meant, and I hope that doesn’t offend anyone.

You make very good points here. That’s exactly how it feels.
I do see that NFP is not the cause of our problems and sex alone isn’t going to fix all of this. But how do we get that “unitive” aspect back into our marriage? Because it’s VERY difficult to use NFP when you’re trying to avoid pregnancy and still be “open” to life. I have 2 children already, ages 1 and 2. We’ve been married for only 3 years. It takes a lot emotionally and physically to keep up with the demands of child-rearing. I can’t have a child every year. So I am terrified when we have sex. That’s not even the “proper” use, but I can’t help it.
 
Liberanosomano, I think your post was very informative. I am sorry you had to suffer. It’s true what you say about women begin used in sex, even within a marriage. I don’t know how to change that though. If I never had to have sex again, I wouldn’t really be too concerned but I am married so it is obviously a really important aspect of marriage.

What do you guys think? Do you think it varies per couple? I know it is unitive and procreative. How often ?
 
You make very good points here. That’s exactly how it feels.
I do see that NFP is not the cause of our problems and sex alone isn’t going to fix all of this. But how do we get that “unitive” aspect back into our marriage? Because it’s VERY difficult to use NFP when you’re trying to avoid pregnancy and still be “open” to life. I have 2 children already, ages 1 and 2. We’ve been married for only 3 years. It takes a lot emotionally and physically to keep up with the demands of child-rearing. I can’t have a child every year. So I am terrified when we have sex. That’s not even the “proper” use, but I can’t help it.
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First of all, you are using NFP, and you know, sweetie, that it wouldn’t be such an issue if your husband would cooperate and make proper use of the infertile time. Even if you only used Phase III timing when you were in your infertile luteal phase AFTER all possibility of ovulation was long gone, that would be more time to connect than he is giving you now. Instead of building up desire, he’s taking care of it elsewhere. He may as well have a mistress. It’s the same effect.

And you would have more energy if he was helping you, instead of off in a bathroom taking care of his own “needs.” Get with a Couple to Couple League person and really learn this cycle of yours. And by the way, a priest has “objectivity” which you may not find with a married minister in another church, who might see all of this from a husband’s perspective and then how would you feel if you went to counselling.

Your sex issues here are a symptom of the greater problem, not the problem itself, and certainly not the cure. Often a woman doesn’t feel united, even in the middle of the sex act, if her husband has been cold, distant, or selfish all day. You get the unitive aspect back to your marriage when you feel you are working as a team and not one person carrying the whole weight alone.
 
Kittery - those celibate priests understand far more than you realize. I think the Catholic teachings on marriage and sexuality are deeply profound and absolutely on the mark.

I say this as a woman who converted to Catholicism and who was in a marriage that was all about control. ABC really does only mask this problem and will let it escalate to where it is completely out of hand. I honestly believe that sex can not be truly unitive if it is not also open to life. It is an illusion to think that sex will bring you closer to your husband if he is closed to life and views you as an alternative to masturbation. No matter what effort you put into that area, it won’t help if he is really focussed first and foremost on himself. I think it is the couples who are caught up in such illusions that are the ones who can’t truly understand, not priests.

Do you think you would be terrified of having more children if you had a husband who was actively engaged in caring for the two that you have now? Do you think you would be terrified if you could talk about your fears with your husband and know that you were on the same page, that you were working together toward a common vision? Do you think you might be more up to the challenge physically and emotionally if you and your husband were supporting one another, backing each other up, encouraging each other? Do you feel disconnected from your husband now? Are you showing each other affection in ways outside of the bedroom?

Again, I’m divorced so I am not judging you. I just know that a lot of the problems had their start in a contraceptive mindset. I would hate for you to see how bad things can get if you steer off course with that mindset.
 
Hi there.

I have not read this whole thread, so…

To the OP.

First, I’m a male. But I’ll give you this from my side.

My wife and I are in the same boat as you and your dh (Dear Husband).

We are also recent converts to Catholicism - 3 years now, and we are experiencing the same feelings as you are.

We are expecting our second child due in January, unplanned. My wife is now so scared of intercourse that she told me that after the birth of this child, we probably won’t be intimate. This fear is natural.

Let me just say one thing here:
What your husband is doing is probably expected, even though it’s a mortal sin.
As a man in this situation, it’s very very difficult for me to process the thoughts and feelings that is derived from my wife not wanting to share herself with me.
My situation has a bit of an extra tangent on it, our intimacy was not very active…before the pregnancy, we were only intimate once a month, if that…due to her low libido and one other aspect that I may touch on later.
And now, because of the perpetual morning sickness and perpetual tiredness we are hardly intimate.
What I’m getting at is that even though I know my wife loves me, I (and most married men) need physical intimacy to show them that their wives love them. It certainly my “Love Language” - the primary way in which I am shown love by my wife.
For me, I was (and still am) struggling with feelings of un-lovedness due to this lack of intimacy, and it is very easy for a man in this situation to turn towards masturbation.

But, I also know where you are coming from. Being new to NFP and already having an unplanned pregnancy is quite a shock, and for me, it definitely shook my trust in NFP.
And how do we go forward from here? We can not afford to have another child after the birth of this one and the only means of approved method of family planning by the Church has failed us.

This is a very tough situation, but I recommend that you speak to your husband about it. Speak about your feelings and fears. This will draw him into the situation and with that you may even see his masturbation declining.

I mention that it’s tough…it’s more like a catch 22. And I can understand my wife’s comments, even though it shook me to my foundations.
I mean, you want to be intimate to be one with your spouse and show love to him/her. But you know that you run the risk of another unwanted pregnancy, the result of which could be alienation by your spouse.
The only way that I know how to not have children according to the Church is through NFP, but with my faith in NFP gone, what else is there? Abstinence? Or, more unplanned pregnancies that may result in poor care of the beautiful children they produce.
People will talk a lot about having kids regardless of financial status or even health concerns, but until they are living in a one-bedroom apartment with no support structures around them on a small, single income I’m not sure they understand the effects of this catch 22.

I have no advice for you. I’m in the same situation and I think we will not really have a solution until after the birth, if we ever reach a solution.
But in all honesty, my experience with NFP has been not so good. I’ll stop here for now.
But know that you are not alone in this situation, but unfortunately I do not have any answers for you.

To address your later post:
I feel that the church is unsympathetic and contradictory in some ways. I say “contradictory” mostly because they talk about how marital sex is unitive and procreative. But for the most part, it’s the procreative aspect that is emphasized, and the unitive aspect is diminished, IMO
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I feel exactly the same here. And again, this may be because we are new converts, but I agree. It’s all about making more babies…no matter if you loose all intimacy. Honestly, my wife and I, when we are intimate, it’s so sterile and robotic. No matter how I try to spice things up, it doesn’t work. My wife is so scared to break a Church rule and sin that it’s always the same.

I’m sorry I don’t have advice, but I surely identify with you.

PM
 
No, it’s not all about making babies. The Church’s stand on the unitive aspect of procreation is such that it is the reason the Church condemns in vitro fertilization. After all, there is conception, right? A baby! So the Church must be in favor.

No. Because in vitro lacks that love-giving property of sexual union between two married people. You must have that. It is so important, the Church will not back down. Even though people complain the Church is insensitive to couples who feel their desire for a child trumps its teaching on the fundamental necessity of the unitive aspects of intercourse.

So they get it from both sides: The people who want the unitive without the procreative. And the people who want the procreative without the unitive.

How many couples complained about Church teaching and had the unitive without the procreative for years, until they wanted a child. And then found they couldn’t have any, and demand the Church change its position in the other direction.

The only one who is consistent here is the Church.

Don’t mean to derail the thread. Just want to keep the opinions and statements here in line with Church teaching. Which at heart is always about compliance with God’s will and plan and not our own.
 
kittery said:
But now that I’m living it, and have learned of couples who have such short cycles that they may only find 2 or 3 days a month to have sex, I feel that the church is unsympathetic and contradictory in some ways. I say “contradictory” mostly because they talk about how marital sex is unitive and procreative. But for the most part, it’s the procreative aspect that is emphasized, and the unitive aspect is diminished, IMO.
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Hello kittery,

I do not know where you heard about women who only have 2-3 days of infertility per cycle, but that would by EXTREMELY unusual and a sign of health problems. Firstly, most women have at least four, often times more, days at the beginning of every cycle. Then, phase three should always be around two weeks long. If it’s short, the woman has a high risk for miscarriage and should have that checked out ASAP. So at the very least, every woman should have two weeks of easily identifiable infertile period each month.

I really don’t see the Church as emphasizing the procrative aspect over the unitive. The Church says that both are required and would oppose a couple trying to eliminate the unitive aspect of sex, trying only to have the procreative aspect. It would be equally wrong, but honestly, today’s culture is constantly trying to eliminate the procreative aspect of sex, not the other way around.
kittery said:
There are so many technicalities- I even read a link yesterday that a poster on this board posted somewhere where they are talking about how it is wrong for a couple to maximize their “carnal” pleasure by doing certain things during sex.
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Honestly, and I mean this with all respect to posters on this board, take the comments you receive with a grain of salt when they aren’t backed up by the Catechism or a document from the Vatican (including mine 🙂 !). From what I understand, as long a the intent is to finish the act with the sperm inside the woman, you’re fine. The married couple is not even sinning if for some reason outside of their control, it doesn’t happen that way. The Church is just saying that this is what the act is intended for and that it needs to end in this way.
kittery said:
Honestly, I have a hard time feeling like my bedroom is a private place for my husband and I to share because I hear the Catholic Church’s voice in there all the time. Seriously. Sometimes during sex, I’m thinking about what the church would say about this or that. And, in my OP, I mentioned that I feel as though these “rules” are promulgated by men who have no idea what the pressures inside true family life are like. Anyone care to comment?
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Your bedroom is a private place, and your marriage is private. But your marriage involves three people: you, your husband and God. God is part of that sacrament that you share. As Catholics, we seek to do the Lord’s will in ALL things, and for us marrieds, that includes sex. This doesn’t mean we should be thinking about Church teaching while we’re in bed. It means that we should do our absolute best to be educated about what God’s plan for sex and marriage is and live that out as best we can! God does not want us to obsess and over worry about anything.

Oh, and I really believe that priests do understand the pressures of family life. My brother in law is a priest, and an incredible man. It has really opened my eyes to a better understanding of priests in general to know a priest so closely and see him interact with his family. He’s a human who made vows, just like us marrieds, and I have found that we have so much more in common. Also, what’s a parish? It’s a big family! With all the good and bad that comes with it.
 
Marital intimacy is supposed to be a reflection of the sacrificial nature of love. It is that sacrificial element that truly distinguishes love from its immitator, lust. Waiting to experience this kind of intimacy until marriage involves sacrifice. Being open to children requires sacrifice. A husband thinking about his wife’s happiness rather than just his own pleasure requires sacrifice. A wife putting aside her own lack of desire out of love for her husband requires sacrifice. Abstaining because you aren’t in a financial position to support more children requires sacrifice.

All of these sacrifices are assurances that little by little that love that a husband and a wife have for each other, that love that will get them and their families through the hard times, is not replaced by lust and selfishness. Yes, these sacrifices are difficult, but trust me, they are so much less painful than the alternative.
 
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