Marriage woes

[Liberanosamalo]

I always end up agreeing with Dulcissima.



Love without Sacrifice is like Christ without the Cross. You won’t find it. One cannot exist without the other. A sacrifice is voluntary. If it isn’t voluntary, the person doing it feels punished and deprived. There is no love in that equation. And love that doesn’t require any sacrifice isn’t really true and tested love. It’s an illusion of love.

Again, to tie this into something we all know very well: Food.

How willing are we to go without food if our health requires it, or if we are trying to save money. Or if we need to lose weight. And by going without, we appreciate it more. Food tastes better when you haven’t eaten for a while. When you are truly hungry. Sometimes we can become so satiated by plentiful food, it loses its appeal. We become bored with it. Or we gorge on it to our own detriment.

Same with sex. Your husband might feel more interest in it if he was truly on the same “diet” as you were. If he was sacrificing along with you, when you were together again, it would be sweeter. And you would be in sync. He’s training his own sexual responses to be self-generated. After a while your best efforts might not measure up. And going to confession for the same thing every week isn’t fooling God. And the previous poster is entirely correct. That third Person in your bedroom is God Himself. If your husband has no purpose of real amendment and is misusing the confessional the same way he is misusing you, his spiritual issues need much more help than we can give him here.

Have you started saying the family Rosary with him? If he balks at that, he’s what we call down here “All hat and no cattle.”

Try a daily rosary with him. If he can then get up and go masturbate, he’s hopeless.

 

[FLCathMom]

Have you started saying the family Rosary with him? If he balks at that, he’s what we call down here “All hat and no cattle.”

Try a daily rosary with him. If he can then get up and go masturbate, he’s hopeless.

The Rosary is very powerful for instilling a love of purity and chastity. I am a cradle Catholic, and I cannot believe how much I have changed since I began the devotion of a daily Rosary. I didn’t understand the importance of chastity and purity until the Blessed Virgin Mary showed me.

 

[kittery]

PennitentMan- Thank you so much for your post. It’s a sigh of relief to know that there are others out there who practice NFP, but aren’t “feelin’ it”. I appreciate your candid post- very refreshing to hear a male’s perspective on this issue. It’s good to think about things from my husband’s point of view and you gave me some great insight to that. I really feel for you and your wife. Honestly, I cried as I read your post because you’re both experiencing the same things we are and it is so painful.

Can I ask about your conversion? Both of you converted at the same time? What brought you to the Catholic faith? I feel like a fraud sometimes because I converted and now I’m here questioning everything even though I was “well-educated” on the faith when I entered. I know it’s natural to think things over when you’re confused, but honestly I don’t think my husband would have chosen to marry a non-catholic. And when I’m at odds with my beliefs, I don’t feel very Catholic.

And to everyone else, I hear what you are all saying. Just because I identify with PennitentMan’s post doesn’t mean I’m not drawing in information from the rest of you. I am.

My marriage is quite devoid of emotional connection right now. There is so many things in the root of that problem, I don’t know how to begin fixing it. I have always felt like my husband thinks he’s “more Catholic” than me because he’s cradle, and I’m a convert.

For example, Sunday morning we woke up and our 1-year old had 102.5 temp. She’d had fever two nights in a row now and both kids had been sick for 2 weeks already, so I called the pediatric clinic and they said to come in with both of them. Instead of going with me, he went to mass, even though there was still a noon mass and a 7:30pm mass he could have attended. I was tired from the entire week of caring for two toddlers who were very cranky from not feeling well. (they both turned out to have ear infections) I would have appreciated his help at the clinic. He didn’t consider that I was missing mass, or that he could have taken them to the clinic and let me enjoy a mass alone.

When we married, we bought a “fixer-upper” with and extra tax-lot next to it with the intentions of fixing and selling this one and building a new house for ourselves on the empty lot. I don’t like this house at all- it’s tiny (no dining space), with the laundry in the basement, and two very steep (dangerous) stairways. Once the kids came along I became very anxious to move on. He says I always have to have everything my way and that I’m ungrateful. He says he could stay in this house forever, but he’ll move so that I can have my way.

But when I try to talk to him about how I feel, or even my feelings/thoughts on religion, he gets very defensive and just says that I think everything’s about me. Sometimes I really wonder if he regrets marrying me.

The point is, no- NFP is not THE problem, but it is affecting our marriage one way or another. Everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut has been worthwhile and thought-provoking…:newidea:

 

[Sure]

To the OP…

One big thing to remember: NFP (despite the name) is NOT natural!

Now, of course, what does that mean? It means that God designed the man and the woman to be attracted to each other and to come together. That is good and that is the norm. nature designed people to marry and renew their marriage covenant as they are so inclined. Sometimes, due to circumstances beyond our control, we resort to making use of NFP in order to avoid pregnancy. But this ought to be the exception and not the norm. It is in this sense, NFP is not “natural” or not the norm. Obviously, when we do things that are not the norm, it is difficult. It would be easier for you and your husband to renew your marriage covenant whenever you were so inclined, but obviously, circumstances prohibit you from acting so freely at this time.

I guess my point here is don’t get caught up thinking your marriage is flawed because NFP is very difficult. It’s tough for all of us, but we put up with the difficulty because we believe that there is a serious reason to avoid pregnancy at this time. I know there are those out there who say that NFP is great and wonderful and should be used at all times for all reasons. This is not correct. NFP is a gift from our Benevolent Creator to be used in those times when, for various reasons, it would be imprudent to seek to welcome another child. But using NFP, while good, goes against the natural rhythms and inclinations that God the Father wrote in our hearts and because of this is always difficult.

Just remember, it’s a good thing that NFP is so tough for you. It’s a sign that you and your husband are attracted to each other and desire each other.

Continue to struggle and pray together, this difficulty like all difficulties can make your marriage stronger if you do this together. If you make a mistake, don’t worry. Pick yourself up, avail yourself to the forgiveness of Our Lord in confession and keep moving forward.

God bless!

 

[PennitentMan]

PennitentMan- Thank you so much for your post. It’s a sigh of relief to know that there are others out there who practice NFP, but aren’t “feelin’ it”. I appreciate your candid post- very refreshing to hear a male’s perspective on this issue. It’s good to think about things from my husband’s point of view and you gave me some great insight to that. I really feel for you and your wife. Honestly, I cried as I read your post because you’re both experiencing the same things we are and it is so painful.

Hi there Kittery
You are welcome, and please ask me any questions you need to, I may be able to shed light on your dh’s point of view to help you approach him or just understand him. Please understand that I do not condone his actions, it doesn’t sound like he is dealing with this correctly at all, it sounds like he is running away from the problem by masturbating.

Can I ask about your conversion? Both of you converted at the same time? What brought you to the Catholic faith? I feel like a fraud sometimes because I converted and now I’m here questioning everything even though I was “well-educated” on the faith when I entered. I know it’s natural to think things over when you’re confused, but honestly I don’t think my husband would have chosen to marry a non-catholic. And when I’m at odds with my beliefs, I don’t feel very Catholic.

My conversion was quite a long and complicated walk full of small nudges by the Holy Spirit (and later I found out that Our Lady had a hand in it too), but, long story short, my wife and I converted together, just over three years ago.
The thing that got me was the True Presence. Reading Jesus’ words on John where He speaks of this, I truly believe the True Presence and that once I believed that I couldn’t turn away from it.
I think our catechism class was great, but I do remember that from the start I had some concerns with NFP though. But I converted in spite of these concerns.

I know exactly how you feel when you say that you are feeling like a fraud too. I mean, I even went to confession just for questioning the teachings because I honestly don’t understand them! I felt (and still do) so guilty!!!
But what do I do? Just believe because they say so, even though I know that if we go down that road, I will not be able to fulfill my vocation as husband and father and provide for my family the way I should and want to…?
I know people say that you should trust God, but I also have a responsibility towards my existing and expanding family and already I feel I won’t be able to provide it all on my salary (I’m getting lined up for a small pay-cut, my wife don’t even know about!

PM

 

[Liberanosamalo]

My marriage is quite devoid of emotional connection right now. There is so many things in the root of that problem, I don’t know how to begin fixing it. I have always felt like my husband thinks he’s “more Catholic” than me because he’s cradle, and I’m a convert.

First of all, just because someone was baptized Catholic and grew up Catholic doesn’t mean they are. There is no room for such distinctions. Converts often make the best of all Catholics, because they made a decision to be that way and worked for it and value it, and aren’t just following family tradition. DO NOT LET HIM MAKE YOU FEEL INFERIOR! In fact, you are a better Catholic than he is because you’re walking the walk while he talks the talk.

What you just told me about your Sunday and the house tells me one thing. You are married to a narcissist. He won’t allow you to voice your very legitimate needs because it’s all about him. “See. I am considering buying you a new house. But I like this one, even though my kids can fall down the stairs.”

He should have taken them to the pediatrician with you Sunday. Then dropped you off at Mass on the way home and gone himself later. As head of his own domestic church, he’s a failure. He is not seeing to it that your spiritual needs are being met. This is a perfect metaphor for his sexual needs too. He goes off by himself and leaves you to fend for yourself.

And you wonder why you’re not connected? Honey, not only are you not on the same page, you’re not even in the same book.
I suspect his father is the same sort of man? And his mother put up with it. So he’s sure you’re supposed to also.

This has nothing to do with Catholicism. It has to do with basic consideration and respect. Spending all week alone caring for a newborn and a 2 year old and then him expecting you to be Mata Hari in bed at the end of the day? He lives in a fantasy world.

NFP isn’t even the issue here. If you were giving yourself blood clots on ABC and available every night, it would just feed his selfish attitude even more.

So let’s get this straight:
You have a husband who:

Would refuse to marry a non-Catholic. But when you convert, he looks down his nose at you. And expects you to live up to Church teachings he doesn’t live up to.

Breaks his promises about your living arrangements.

Neglects to see to it his children have proper medical care.

Ignores you except during your fertile time, but takes care of his own sexual needs when you are infertile.

Will not let you voice your own wants,needs, and emotions. And when you do, he criticizes you and tells you you are ungrateful.

Does not help his new bride with even the most basic childcare duties or help around the house.

Goes around and brags to the world what a devoted Catholic he is, and he uses NFP (but neglects to say he impregnated his wife 2 times in two years because he has no interest in her charts or her real fertility patterns or whether she is ready to be pregnant again. And of course doesn’t tell the world how he violates Church teaching to compensate for the times his wife is fertile.)

Uses the confessional like a get out of jail ticket to go and sin again the next week.

He thinks YOU are the self-centered one? It’s all about HIM!

And you think sex is going to fix him?

He’s riding you into the ground. I predict you will get angrier and angrier. But you will turn it inward, where it will become paralyzing depression. And you will blame the Church, when the blame lies with your husband who has clearly not grown up. Three years into the marriage and it actually requires work from him, or sacrifice, which he clearly is not into.

I suggest you find a CATHOLIC counselor and go alone. Ask your priest for a recommendation of someone who will not treat you like you have the problem because you’re trying to live within Church guidelines. And get counselling on how to live with someone in a situation where you are married, but he isn’t. Because that’s how he’s living. You need to find ways to deal with this so you don’t snap in half. I know, dear. I was married to that man. And it went downhill from year 2. As soon as I had a request of HIM, it stopped being fun and games. Looking back, nothing could have fixed him. He didn’t want it. But I am glad I never violated my conscience to please a man who only pleased himself.

You are looking for something to explain this whole situation, and something to blame it on. Like your kids’ ear infection, the fever was horrible. But it wasn’t the problem. The bacteria in the ear canal was the root cause. No amount of tylenol can fix that. And ignoring the real problem would have led to medical catastrophe down the road.

Sex is like that fever. It’s not the real problem. The real problem is a very selfish atittude on the part of your husband.

 

[dulcissima]

PM, I just wanted to add that I think your wife has more in common with the OP’s husband than you do. You are both giving while you have spouses who are self-centered and uninterested in changing.

I just want to be clear with both you and the OP that I am not criticizing either of you for not being willing to sacrifice. You both are doing more than your fair share of that. My point is that it is not NFP or Church teaching that is making your life so difficult and your cross so heavy.

 

[kittery]

Liberanosamalo,

Quite a lot to think about in that last post of yours…

I’m certainly not perfect. I do things that drive him crazy too. He is one of those men that would give the shirt off his back. Once he got married and had a family, that generous abandon was stifled- by me and the kids. I think that he resents that, and feels held back by me, so to speak. We live on one salary (I’m in nursing school so in a couple of years it will be two incomes), and when you have a young family at home, I don’t think it’s prudent to volunteer every time you’re asked, or to donate money every time you’re asked. Our first and second year of marriage was covered in arguments about that. He wanted to change jobs right when my business was going under, and go into a much lower-paying position because he felt that his position at the city didn’t honor God. (There’s nothing immoral about what he does) But I “didn’t let him”. He’s still bitter about that. (That’s why I’m in school, so he CAN take a lower paying position someday if he so desires.) So, he is a very good person and very much wants to do the right thing. But in the privacy of our own home, where noone sees, he’s lax.

Something you mentioned, I’ve often wondered about. He is 1 of 14 children, and was raised where the older ones took care of the younger ones, dad was working all the time, and his mom suffered a deep depression at times. His dad passed away shortly after I met my husband, so I didn’t get to know his dad very well. But after about a year of mourning, his mother is “living it up”. Not that she doesn’t miss her late husband, (she still cries) but that it seems like she is doing everything she was held back from. I wonder what her life was really like as a married woman. I wonder if my husband learned from his dad. Hmmm…

Anyway, now that we’re COMPLETELY off track, it sounds like it’s time for me to move on to a thread about marital counseling.

Thank you, liberanosamalo, for sharing your experience with me. I will keep my eyes open for the REAL problem.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Kittery, I hope truly that someone will also be able to help your husband see that charity begins at home and that his “generous abandon” should be first spent on his own family. He needs to make the image his family sees match the carefully crafted one the public sees. It’s no good if he gives the shirt off his back to everyone but his wife and kids.

The comments about his mother and his upbringing give a little insight into things. He probably thinks the kids just raise themselves. He needs to see that they don’t.

You’re doing all this AND in school? When do you get a break?
I hope you can find someone to help you get things on track. Trust me when I say it’s not fun being a single mom. Good luck.