Marriage?

[mila49]

Hello,

My name is Murielle and I just have a few questions about marriage as I have never really looked into it before now for obvious reasons and am a little confused as to what is required and want to cover all my bases.

First off, I should probably mention I haven’t been to church in a very long time due to health issues (my immune system is compromised and being around large crowds of people is not in my best interest). I mention this because when my parents got married some forty odd years ago, a priest refused to marry them because they didn’t go to church regularly and they had to actually go to the bishop to get the priest to marry them! Are priests still that hard core? Do you think we’ll have problems finding a priest to marry us?

My second question deals with the marriage course thing they have now. Would we have to take it? Is it required? What will be covered in the course?

My third question is one that I sort of know the answer. My fiancee is not Catholic. Will the Church still marry us? I thought they would but my fiancee does not practice any kind of organized religion but does define himself as Christian. I’m asking this question because I read somewhere the the Church will not perform a marriage unless we provide some sort of christening or baptismal certificate for him. Is that true?

Thanks so much for your help

Cheers

Murielle.

 

[hiramross]

You should contact your local Archdiocese or church to get information on the specific requirements for Marriage preparations.

Are you seeking to be married in a Church or are you truly looking to have the Catholic faith as the foundation of your marriage and family?

A church wedding isn’t an event for sale it’s a sacrament that should be taking very seriously.

 

[tee_eff_em]

A church wedding isn’t an event for sale it’s a sacrament that should be taking very seriously.

IF her fiancee is a baptized Christian. If he is not, they may still contract a natural marriage, and it should still be taken very seriously.

Will the Church still marry us? I thought they would but my fiancee does not practice any kind of organized religion but does define himself as Christian. I’m asking this question because I read somewhere the the Church will not perform a marriage unless we provide some sort of christening or baptismal certificate for him. Is that true?

That is not true – A dispensation may be sought when a Catholic wishes to marry an unbaptized person.

However: I honestly do not know what course the church will take if your fiancee cannot prove his baptism by either producing a certificate, or by the attestation of witnesses.
Ask your pastor.

tee

 

[SighGuy]

I don’t know all of the answers. I recommend you take a day off to speak with a priest.

Marriage to a non-Catholic poses several problems for Catholics, chiefly, that the centers of their lives are unaligned. Even if they can overcome that obstacle, a Catholic is obligated to raise their children Catholic, no exceptions. This may seem rigorous, but, consider it logically. A Catholic believes that there is but one Truth, and not many Truths (that would be ridiculous), but furthermore, that God, being a loving God, has not obscured or made Truth unattainable, and has in fact revealed in through Jesus Christ and perpetuated it in the Church that was founded by Christ, under the man/office, Peter.

Why, then, should the infinitely good truths of God get tossed aside for anything? Why would we want our children learning things that aren’t true and could potentially get them lost for good?

The main difficulty is that Catholics are obligated to raise their children in the truth as revealed to man by God through the Church… hopefully your fiance is okay with that.

Generally, I think, a Catholic needs to obtain a dispensation, or permission, from the Church in order to marry a non-Catholic. This is because marriage is so important, that the Church wants to make sure the involved parties really understand their obligations to not only each other, but their children, before the Church will join them together. If the Church didn’t do this, and the people married haphazardly, and later divorced due to difficulties, all sorts of heartbreak, sin, and tragedy would take place.

 

[1ke]

when my parents got married some forty odd years ago, a priest refused to marry them because they didn’t go to church regularly and they had to actually go to the bishop to get the priest to marry them! Are priests still that hard core?

If they aren’t, they should be. A priest is not to administer sacraments to those who are not in a state of grace. Coming to the Church asking for marriage while “not attending church” seems rather odd. What was the purpose of asking the Church for the sacrament if they were not practicing their faith?

I would hope the priest would have been pastoral and attempted to counsel them to mend their non-church going ways.

Do you think we’ll have problems finding a priest to marry us?

If you are not attending Mass due to an illness, that is perfectly fine. Have you talked to your pastor about bringing you the Eucharist and making anointing and reconciliation available to you?

My second question deals with the marriage course thing they have now. Would we have to take it? Is it required? What will be covered in the course?

Premarital preparation is required. What form that takes varies from diocese to diocese and so you should talk to your pastor, explain your situation, and ask him what your options are.

My fiancee is not Catholic. Will the Church still marry us?

In most cases, yes. Marring a non-Catholic requires permission of the bishop (if baptized) or a dispensation from the bishop (if unbaptized).

I read somewhere the the Church will not perform a marriage unless we provide some sort of christening or baptismal certificate for him. Is that true?

That is misinformation.

What you really need to do is make an appointment with your pastor for accurate information and details of marriage preparation in your local parish.

 

[tee_eff_em]

If they aren’t, they should be. A priest is not to administer sacraments to those who are not in a state of grace. Coming to the Church asking for marriage while “not attending church” seems rather odd. What was the purpose of asking the Church for the sacrament if they were not practicing their faith?

Do you believe being a sinner prohibits one from marriage? On what basis?

tee

 

[SighGuy]

I don’t know the rules on this issue, but I can at least say you’ve shaded 1ke’s statement in a way that’s not fair.

She never stated that the sacrament of marriage is not permissible to those of us who are sinners (which is all of us), rather, to those of us who are not in a state of grace (in mortal sin).

I don’t know if that’s true, but it’s very distinct from your version of 1ke’s sentence.

 

[tee_eff_em]

I don’t know the rules on this issue, but I can at least say you’ve shaded 1ke’s statement in a way that’s not fair.

She never stated that the sacrament of marriage is not permissible to those of us who are sinners (which is all of us), rather, to those of us who are not in a state of grace (in mortal sin).

I don’t know if that’s true, but it’s very distinct from your version of 1ke’s sentence.

My apologies for any injustice, none was intended and I am happy to re-cast the question:

If they aren’t, they should be. A priest is not to administer sacraments to those who are not in a state of grace. Coming to the Church asking for marriage while “not attending church” seems rather odd. What was the purpose of asking the Church for the sacrament if they were not practicing their faith?

Do you believe *not being in a state of grace *prohibits one from marriage? On what basis?

mea culpa
tee

 

[clem456]

What you need to do is go talk to your parish priest. Only he can see the two of you face to face, get to know you, and give you proper counsel. This is not something that can be solved over the internet by opinions.

 

[clem456]

My apologies for any injustice, none was intended and I am happy to re-cast the question:

Do you believe *not being in a state of grace *prohibits one from marriage? On what basis?

mea culpa
tee

Given the information in the OP, surely a priest can observe the individuals and make prudential judgments about the couple’s commitment to the Church. If the couple is not committed to the Church, why do they even want to be married in the Church? Surely a priest is able to make a prudential judgment? (not the same as judging their souls)

Again, go see you parish priest and ask him these questions. You’ll likely find that your priest is wise and patient and can give you good counsel.

 

[Corki]

Do you believe being a sinner prohibits one from marriage? On what basis?

tee

It has nothing to do with “being a sinner”. But unless at least one of the people is actually practicing their faith, a priest should be cautious about marrying them in the Church. Not “prohibit” but possibly delay.

Our diocese often uses the term “Sacramental filling station” and cautions all those involved in Sacrament prep - be it Baptisms, First Communions or Marriages, to be on guard against that mentality.

 

[Gorgias]

Given the information in the OP, surely a priest can observe the individuals and make prudential judgments about the couple’s commitment to the Church. If the couple is not committed to the Church, why do they even want to be married in the Church? Surely a priest is able to make a prudential judgment?

Well, in this case, since Murielle’s fiance isn’t a baptized Christian, there isn’t the question of whether he’s “committed to the Church.” From Murielle’s perspective, it sounds like she is, but she’s unable to participate in Mass with a congregation, due to health concerns. (I would presume this means that she’s looking for a rather small wedding service, perhaps just the two of them and their witnesses!)

Why would she “even want to be married in the Church”? For the same reason any other Catholic wants to be married in the Church – so that she’s in a valid marriage and not living in a state of mortal sin!

 

[Gorgias]

A priest is not to administer sacraments to those who are not in a state of grace.

A person desiring baptism isn’t in a state of grace. A person approaching reconciliation isn’t in a state of grace. Surely that doesn’t mean that a priest “is not to administer” these sacraments to them? (Yes, I know it’s a quibble; but stated as such, it seems a bit overreaching.)

Coming to the Church asking for marriage while “not attending church” seems rather odd. What was the purpose of asking the Church for the sacrament if they were not practicing their faith?

Right. And, for those who are asking for clarification, let’s keep in mind that 1ke is discussing the OP’s parents, not the OP and her fiance. The OP, due to her medical condition, is ostensibly not in a state of mortal sin, nor is there evidence that she is “not practicing [her] faith”…

 

[clem456]

Well, in this case, since Murielle’s fiance isn’t a baptized Christian, there isn’t the question of whether he’s “committed to the Church.” From Murielle’s perspective, it sounds like she is, but she’s unable to participate in Mass with a congregation, due to health concerns. (I would presume this means that she’s looking for a rather small wedding service, perhaps just the two of them and their witnesses!)

Why would she “even want to be married in the Church”? For the same reason any other Catholic wants to be married in the Church – so that she’s in a valid marriage and not living in a state of mortal sin!

Geez…
Isn’t this why it’s a good idea to just go talk to the parish priest, as I said in the post above?

Now we have 6 posts conflated with one another.
I’m just making the point,
THE PRIEST SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE THE BEST JUDGMENT ABOUT THE INDIVIUALS INVOLVED, FACE TO FACE, HEART TO HEART, which was in response to the other poster saying “on what basis.”…can the priest do this n that.

I think the priest is qualified to counsel people in regard to the sacraments, but maybe I’m wrong about that

 

[mila49]

Before I start this post I want to thank all of those who were kind enough to give me straight answers to my questions. It is very much appreciated.
Now, for those of you who have questioned my motives for marrying in the Church, let me be clear. I’m doing it because for the first twenty-three years of my life I not only attended church every Sunday of my life. I also went to Catholic school, performed all my sacraments and never thought of getting married anywhere else but the Catholic church.
I’m lucky to be getting married at all as technically I should be dead. Through God’s compassion and the kindness of people’s prayers I got a double lung transplant and have been lucky enough to live almost fifteen years after my transplant when a lot of people I know have died after only a year or so and most people I know who got their transplant before me are now dead.
God also blessed me with a man who understands my condition and loved me enough to move across the country to be with me and had the guts to take me on with all my health issues.
We are not planning to have children and I took steps long before I met my fiancee to make sure I wouldn’t have them. I do not believe it is fair to burden a child with a mother who is ill and might grow up without me. Nor would I want to pass on my defective genes to my child and have them have to grow up with the same disease I have fought for my entire life.
I sincerely appreciate everyone’s answers and am not discouraging anyone from answering my questions, but please answer them in a respectful way that involves the question and not motives behind it, because I assure you they are sincere.

Sincerely

M.

 

[Magdalen2013]

My apologies for any injustice, none was intended and I am happy to re-cast the question:

Do you believe *not being in a state of grace *prohibits one from marriage? On what basis?

mea culpa
tee

Yes – one MUST be in a state of grace in order to receive any sacraments other than baptism and reconciliation, as the first washes away sin and the second absolves us of it, both sacraments restoring us to a state of grace.

 

[Gorgias]

Yes – one MUST be in a state of grace in order to receive any sacraments other than baptism and reconciliation, as the first washes away sin and the second absolves us of it, both sacraments restoring us to a state of grace.

I’m well aware that there is a prohibition against receiving the Eucharist while in a state of mortal sin (cf CCC 1385). At the moment, however, I can’t recall reading anything that suggests that this is the case with any other sacrament. Do you (or does anyone else who has made this assertion) have a Church reference (CCC, Canon law, etc) that says that one cannot receive sacraments (other than the Eucharist) while not in a state of grace?

Thanks!

 

[tee_eff_em]

Yes – one MUST be in a state of grace in order to receive any sacraments other than baptism and reconciliation, as the first washes away sin and the second absolves us of it, both sacraments restoring us to a state of grace.

To repeat: Upon what do you base this?

I am not a Canon Lawyer, but the canons plainly say:

Can. 1058 All persons who are not prohibited by law can contract marriage.

Good grief! The *unbaptized *validly contract marriage!

PS.
The Anointing of the Sick may also be administered to those not known to be in a state of grace.

tee
Not A Canon Lawyer

 

[Anne1964]

One of the requirements for marriage in the Church is that both parties be open to having children. That said, sterility of one of the parties is not an impediment to marriage as long as you are still open to having children.

What does this mean? That your spouse will not use artificial birth control, and that if, by a miracle, you became pregnant, you would have the baby.

 

[dans0622]

To repeat: Upon what do you base this?

I am not a Canon Lawyer, but the canons plainly say:

Good grief! The unbaptized validly contract marriage!

PS.
The Anointing of the Sick may also be administered to those not known to be in a state of grace.

tee
Not A Canon Lawyer

This is an interesting topic. It is common to say that if a person is in state of mortal sin, he cannot fruitfully receive any sacrament. Yet, the sacrament of marriage can’t be separated from the contract itself. So, for the mortal sinner Christian who marries another Christian with all the proper intentions, there is no reason to doubt the validity of the marriage yet has he received the sacrament? If so, how? If not, how is that possible?

Perhaps this is a reason why people such as Benedict XVI said the question of the role of faith in contracting a sacramental marriage is very comiles and needs further study.

Dan