Marriage?

[cena]

Yes – one MUST be in a state of grace in order to receive any sacraments other than baptism and reconciliation, as the first washes away sin and the second absolves us of it, both sacraments restoring us to a state of grace.

“Assuming that everything else is in order, namely, both of the couple are free to marry, they are baptized, they understand and accept the essentials of the sacrament and intend to live by them, they follow the proper form, etc etc., then – yes – such a marriage should be valid.”
wdtprs.com/blog/2010/06/quaeritur-marrying-in-the-state-of-mortal-sin/
“Confirmation, Holy Orders, Matrimony are validly received in the state of mortal sin.”

 

[tee_eff_em]

.

:bounce: Who IS a Canon Lawyer! :bounce:

This is an interesting topic. It is common to say that if a person is in state of mortal sin, he cannot fruitfully receive any sacrament.

And if anyone would assert the sacramental graces are imperfectly conferred when the sacrament is received not in a state of grace, I would make no argument against them.

Likewise, as [user]Corki[/user] suggested above, I believe a pastor may *delay *a sacrament for a time, perhaps to counsel the recipient(s), but to make such delay permanent would be an injustice. :twocents:

:twocents: Said injustice most frequently encouraged in this forum, in my experience, by those who would deny marriage to a co-habitating couple, because, you know: we wouldn’t want the couple to become married and stop persisting in their sins, I guess.

Yet, the sacrament of marriage can’t be separated from the contract itself. So, for the mortal sinner Christian who marries another Christian with all the proper intentions, there is no reason to doubt the validity of the marriage yet has he received the sacrament? If so, how? If not, how is that possible?

Because a valid marriage cannot exist between the baptized except it be a sacrament.

tee
Not a Canon Lawyer, But A Happy Correspondent Of One

 

[Brandall]

I don’t know all of the answers.

Even if they can overcome that obstacle, a Catholic is obligated to raise their children Catholic, no exceptions. .

.
That’s not true but you didn’t claim to know all the answers.

 

[Magdalen2013]

In RCIA we were told before the Easter Vigil, we would need to be in a state of grace to receive the sacrament of confirmation, and to that end all of the candidates went to Reconciliation in the days before the Vigil.

One couple in our group was converting and also preparing to be married in the Church, and on the evening Reconciliation was discussed, the deacon told them that part of being “properly disposed to receive the sacrament of marriage” would be going to Reconciliation before the wedding.

If what we were told in RCIA was wrong on this point, then I stand corrected.

 

[cena]

In RCIA we were told before the Easter Vigil, we would need to be in a state of grace to receive the sacrament of confirmation, and to that end all of the candidates went to Reconciliation in the days before the Vigil.

One couple in our group was converting and also preparing to be married in the Church, and on the evening Reconciliation was discussed, the deacon told them that part of being “properly disposed to receive the sacrament of marriage” would be going to Reconciliation before the wedding.

If what we were told in RCIA was wrong on this point, then I stand corrected.

If you receive the sacrament of confirmation in mortal sin, you receive it but the gifts of the Holy Spirit will not activate until you are in the state of grace.

I think the marriage is still valid, but the person wouldn’t receive graces? I don’t know really, but I am pretty sure the marriage is valid

 

[Gorgias]

In RCIA we were told before the Easter Vigil, we would need to be in a state of grace to receive the sacrament of confirmation, and to that end all of the candidates went to Reconciliation in the days before the Vigil.

One couple in our group was converting and also preparing to be married in the Church, and on the evening Reconciliation was discussed, the deacon told them that part of being “properly disposed to receive the sacrament of marriage” would be going to Reconciliation before the wedding.

If what we were told in RCIA was wrong on this point, then I stand corrected.

Remember, too, that in both these situations you’ve mentioned, there’s the context of the Eucharist. Without a doubt, one must be properly disposed in order to receive the Eucharist. Murielle, our OP, is marrying a non-Catholic Christian. It’s possible that they might have a wedding service that isn’t a wedding Mass, and therefore, there’s not necessarily the question of being properly disposed to receive Eucharist…

 

[cena]

Remember, too, that in both these situations you’ve mentioned, there’s the context of the Eucharist. Without a doubt, one must be properly disposed in order to receive the Eucharist. Murielle, our OP, is marrying a non-Catholic Christian. It’s possible that they might have a wedding service that isn’t a wedding Mass, and therefore, there’s not necessarily the question of being properly disposed to receive Eucharist…

Is the OP Catholic? They need to be married in a Catholic church

 

[tee_eff_em]

Is the OP Catholic?

That is my understanding.

They need to be married in a Catholic church

They need to be married in accordance with Catholic form, not necessarily in a Catholic church.
And even in a Catholic church, there is no necessity to celebrate marriage in the context of a Mass.

tee

 

[cena]

That is my understanding.

They need to be married in accordance with Catholic form, not necessarily in a Catholic church.
And even in a Catholic church, there is no necessity to celebrate marriage in the context of a Mass.

tee

I think the rule is as long as they are married by a Catholic minister it’s okay.

 

[dans0622]

…
And if anyone would assert the sacramental graces are imperfectly conferred when the sacrament is received not in a state of grace, I would make no argument against them. …

Because a valid marriage cannot exist between the baptized except it be a sacrament. …

I agree.

When speaking of Sacraments that are only received once, it is easier to make a distinction between the “seal” or “indelible mark” of the Sacrament and its graces. For marriage, there is no such distinction. So, what does it really mean to say that the Sacrament of marriage was received/conferred but its graces were not? Can we separate the graces from the Sacrament itself? If there are no graces, what’s left?

These are questions more for the Sacramental theologians among us… For the lawyers, the question would be: how are we ever going to be able to determine, in a court of law, whether or not the graces of the Sacrament were received? I, for one, hope to never have to have anything to do with that question.

Anyway, I agree also with the deleted portions of your comment.

Dan

 

[Gorgias]

Well… yes and no…
"tee_eff_em:

They need to be married in accordance with Catholic form, not necessarily in a Catholic church.

For a Catholic and a non-Catholic Christian? Right. It’s possible (although not a given) that permission might be received for a wedding in the non-Catholic’s church, under certain particular circumstances. Even then, though, there’s an expectation that the wedding will be in a church and not, for example, on the beach.

tee_eff_em:

And even in a Catholic church, there is no necessity to celebrate marriage in the context of a Mass.

Again, this depends on the circumstance: for two Catholics, it would be odd not to have a Mass. For a Catholic and a non-Catholic Christian (like the OP’s situation), it would be possible to have a Mass (although, as tee_eff_em points out, not necessary). For a Catholic and an unbaptized person, a Mass would be inappropriate, and a simple wedding service would be recommended.

I think the rule is as long as they are married by a Catholic minister it’s okay.

Well…

In certain circumstances, it’s possible to get a dispensation from form, such that a non-Catholic minister might preside over the wedding. Of course, this wouldn’t be proper if both are Catholic (although this isn’t the OP’s case, I just want to make sure that there aren’t any misunderstandings here). And, of course, if the wedding between a Catholic and a non-Catholic Christian were performed in a Catholic church, there wouldn’t be the possibility to grant permission for a non-Catholic minister in that situation, either.

Have I muddled the situation thoroughly enough, yet?

It comes down to this: the requirements (and possible permissions/dispensations) vary greatly, depending on the couple themselves and their religious affiliations. It’s best to just ask your priest, and go with what he says…

 

[cena]

Well… yes and no…

For a Catholic and a non-Catholic Christian? Right. It’s possible (although not a given) that permission might be received for a wedding in the non-Catholic’s church, under certain particular circumstances. Even then, though, there’s an expectation that the wedding will be in a church and not, for example, on the beach.

Again, this depends on the circumstance: for two Catholics, it would be odd not to have a Mass. For a Catholic and a non-Catholic Christian (like the OP’s situation), it would be possible to have a Mass (although, as tee_eff_em points out, not necessary). For a Catholic and an unbaptized person, a Mass would be inappropriate, and a simple wedding service would be recommended.

Well…

In certain circumstances, it’s possible to get a dispensation from form, such that a non-Catholic minister might preside over the wedding. Of course, this wouldn’t be proper if both are Catholic (although this isn’t the OP’s case, I just want to make sure that there aren’t any misunderstandings here). And, of course, if the wedding between a Catholic and a non-Catholic Christian were performed in a Catholic church, there wouldn’t be the possibility to grant permission for a non-Catholic minister in that situation, either.

Have I muddled the situation thoroughly enough, yet?

It comes down to this: the requirements (and possible permissions/dispensations) vary greatly, depending on the couple themselves and their religious affiliations. It’s best to just ask your priest, and go with what he says…

They could try to get a dispention, but I know it’s a big deal for a Catholic to get married by a non Catholic minister without permission even if they are marrying a non Catholic