Marriage

[cakmke]

I knew my fiance for five years before we started dating. Last August after a year he proposed. I accepted. Here’s the thing… I am a 45 year old devout, practicing Catholic and he is 50 and Catholic only in the sense that he was born that way. He says he was baptized, but because he had a traumatic/dysfunctional family/childhood he doesn’t remember much else, like first communion, confirmation…etc. His mother is deceased and his father is estranged so locating information is a challenge. He’s religious in the sense that he believes in God, prays all the time, tries to be a good person, but he doesn’t believe a lot of what the Church teaches. He knows my religion is important to me and goes to Mass with me but has stated that he doesn’t want to/feel the need to go to required marriage classes through the Church or even get married in the Church. He said he would have no problem with a priest officiating or co-celebrating, but it doesn’t have to be in a church. How could we have a valid Catholic wedding that satisfies my needs but also his?

 

[underacloud]

There’s a difference between “not feeling the need” to get married in a church and not being prepared (for the sake of your spouse-to-be) to get married in a church. Your post seems to imply the latter, but it’s not clear.

As a start, you should just stress how important it is to you. If he refuses, then I would ask to set up a meeting with your priest to discuss your options.

 

[Xantippe]

There’s a difference between “not feeling the need” to get married in a church and not being prepared (for the sake of your spouse-to-be) to get married in a church. Your post seems to imply the latter, but it’s not clear.

As a start, you should just stress how important it is to you. If he refuses, then I would ask to set up a meeting with your priest to discuss your options.

Yes.

And marriage prep classes are very important if you want to have a successful marriage. There will be all sorts of practical issues that you haven’t thought or talked through yet together. You should probably also pick up a good standard book on marriage and work through the questions.

The vibe I get from your guy is that while he may be quite nice, there are probably a lot of issues he hasn’t stopped to think much about.

If he thinks he doesn’t have to do anything to get ready for a lifelong relationship, that’s a big red flag.

 

[1ke]

In order to be validly married you must follow the laws of the Church. That includes premarital preparation, premarital investigation of freedom to marry, and marriage in the church or dispensation from form by your bishop.

If he is unwilling to marry in a manner so that you remain in communion with the Church and able to participate in the sacramental life, perhaps he really is not the right man for you after all.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I knew my fiance for five years before we started dating. Last August after a year he proposed. I accepted. Here’s the thing… I am a 45 year old devout, practicing Catholic and he is 50 and Catholic only in the sense that he was born that way. He says he was baptized, but because he had a traumatic/dysfunctional family/childhood he doesn’t remember much else, like first communion, confirmation…etc. His mother is deceased and his father is estranged so locating information is a challenge. He’s religious in the sense that he believes in God, prays all the time, tries to be a good person, but he doesn’t believe a lot of what the Church teaches. He knows my religion is important to me and goes to Mass with me but has stated that he doesn’t want to/feel the need to go to required marriage classes through the Church or even get married in the Church. He said he would have no problem with a priest officiating or co-celebrating, but it doesn’t have to be in a church. How could we have a valid Catholic wedding that satisfies my needs but also his?

How could a man, whose job it is to help you get to heaven and vice versa not want what is joyful to you spiritually?

 

[catholicmom2015]

It is possible to have a nuptial blessing by a priest, and have the marriage blessed/certified as a sacrament, and not in a church. You have to find a priest that is willing to do it and they have to go for special exception. The problem I can see here though is that your fiancé does not want to take the classes. I think it will be hard to get a priest to agree to it if you aren’t going to do the marriage prep. Also you would need to provide proof that he was baptized.

I agree with some other comments - this is something that you need to get clear and right upfront. I can speak from personal experience that it is best to get it all out of the way before you are married.

 

[robwar]

I knew my fiance for five years before we started dating. Last August after a year he proposed. I accepted. Here’s the thing… I am a 45 year old devout, practicing Catholic and he is 50 and Catholic only in the sense that he was born that way. He says he was baptized, but because he had a traumatic/dysfunctional family/childhood he doesn’t remember much else, like first communion, confirmation…etc. His mother is deceased and his father is estranged so locating information is a challenge. He’s religious in the sense that he believes in God, prays all the time, tries to be a good person, but he doesn’t believe a lot of what the Church teaches. He knows my religion is important to me and goes to Mass with me but has stated that he doesn’t want to/feel the need to go to required marriage classes through the Church or even get married in the Church. He said he would have no problem with a priest officiating or co-celebrating, but it doesn’t have to be in a church. How could we have a valid Catholic wedding that satisfies my needs but also his?

You have a major conflict in commitment and religious desires. Even though you have known him a while now and both of you are older, his lack of commitment for whatever reason has the potential to become a big issue after marriage. The one thing about marriage is that what ever issues there are before hand become bigger issues afterwards when married. That is how too many people end up in marriages with major problems on their hands because they ignored early red flags before hand. I am sure he is a good man and nice person and means well but this could have the potential of being a holy war afterwards especially when you want to to Church and he doesn’t.

 

[Corki]

It is possible to have a nuptial blessing by a priest, and have the marriage blessed/certified as a sacrament, and not in a church. You have to find a priest that is willing to do it and they have to go for special exception. The problem I can see here though is that your fiancé does not want to take the classes. I think it will be hard to get a priest to agree to it if you aren’t going to do the marriage prep. Also you would need to provide proof that he was baptized.

I agree with some other comments - this is something that you need to get clear and right upfront. I can speak from personal experience that it is best to get it all out of the way before you are married.

I think that option is only available if one spouse-to-be is Catholic and the other is not. In this case, both are Catholic. Even if one is non-practicing, I don’t think the exception would work.

 

[1ke]

I think that option is only available if one spouse-to-be is Catholic and the other is not. In this case, both are Catholic. Even if one is non-practicing, I don’t think the exception would work.

There are some provisions in canon law that allow a situation involving a non-practicing Catholic to be treated like a mixed marriage situation.

It is definitely something that requires permission from the bishop, and a dispensation for form.

Can. 1071 §1. Except in a case of necessity, a person is not to assist without the permission of the local ordinary at:

4/ a marriage of a person who has notoriously rejected the Catholic faith;

Can. 1071 §2. The local ordinary is not to grant permission to assist at the marriage of a person who has notoriously rejected the Catholic faith unless the norms mentioned in ⇒ can. 1125 have been observed with necessary adaptation.

Note “notorious defection” is not the same thing as “formal defection” (abrogated by Pope Benedict). “Notorious defection” is less formal-- it includes joining an ecclesial community or a Church such as the Orthodox or simply not practicing a religion at all.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

The more I cling to religion, the more apparent it is to ME that religion is about FAMILY.
Who’s your family? Who’s his family? How will the union of you both strenghten or divide the family? As Catholic’s we have a Heavenly Father as our leader, his only Son (our fraternal brother), and a Holy Spirit glueing the family together. With all families there are boundaries to maintain harmony in the family.

Now, you have revealed that your spouce is basically an orphan. His experiences cause rebellion against obedience (I might guess he craves people to be obedient to him). His request to you may even be a test to see if you are obedient to him or to your religion.

Another observation I have witnesses is this type of man does not accept the family until he experiences fraternal brotherhood in the church you goto. You might try to get him friends with other men his age, status, ect to see how he blends ---- similar to how we include our fiancé into our paternal families and coworkers.

If this man is seriously craving obedience, you may have to submit to him abundantly to the point where it’s comical. In this submitting, you are teaching him how to obey. It’s scary in marriage because this means you have to trust this man to the point of no return (eternity). Ask yourself now, where will this man ultimately lead you? Will he lead you to a community of saints, or will you have to go a long time into his lonly world of orphan’s iscolation to redeem him?