Marriage

[Pro-Life_Teen]

…and what if one day you wake up and she’s not there for you. What if one day she’s more concerned about the children or her own vanity than she is about you? Do you have a love strong enough to endure torture even while she takes you and your agony entirely for granted?

I beg your pardon? I am sorry, but you don’t know me. At all. When I used to post on this forum I was 13 and 14, and those posts are mainly buried by now. I am older and I hold my Catholic faith dear to me. I also hold my loved ones dear. If I may be blunt, I wish no accusations whatsoever thrown at me by a person who doesn’t have a clue about me. I understand you may be speaking from personal experience, but I am not that person. Not be there for him? Do you know how harsh those words are? And saying more concerned about the children implies more than one horrible thing about him. And I’m not quite sure whether to laugh or cry at that bit about vanity.

I asked a question. I wished a reply. Instead I got posts about how we should not be together based purely on the fact that he is not strictly religious. We are devoted and the question was to imply that what if one is devoted even without the ceremony and Sacrament. And there is no need anymore to answer, we have sorted that all out since the last time I posted in this thread.

Sorry if I sounded self-righteous. I guess my tone comes from having been in the very situation you describe. I choked on my share of the humble pie. I loved my wife with every ounce of my being and found that it was not enough. Everything you say about your love, I would have said 13 years ago about my love for my wife. I couldn’t hack it. But rather than letting it end in divorce I decided to getting my happiness by loving God instead of loving my wife. When I put God ahead of my wife, it changed the nature of our spats.

I can understand you were in a similar situation. But it is not the same situation. I know one is to love God above all. And I do love Him and will follow His teaching and rules to the best of my ability. But that does not mean that I cannot care very deeply for other people as well. Jesus ate with sinners and while He did not applaud their ways He neither shunned them nor chose to eat with saints instead.

 

[ack]

I beg your pardon? I am sorry, but you don’t know me. At all. When I used to post on this forum I was 13 and 14, and those posts are mainly buried by now. I am older and I hold my Catholic faith dear to me.

Ok, from your profile, I see that you joined 3 years ago, so now you’re…17 years old? And you’re thinking about getting married?

I asked a question. I wished a reply. Instead I got posts about how we should not be together based purely on the fact that he is not strictly religious. We are devoted and the question was to imply that what if one is devoted even without the ceremony and Sacrament. And there is no need anymore to answer, we have sorted that all out since the last time I posted in this thread.

If you’ve been on this forum for 3 years, then you should have expected the replies that you got. People frequently ask questions like yours, and the answer is always the same.

Jesus ate with sinners and while He did not applaud their ways He neither shunned them nor chose to eat with saints instead.

How does not wanting to marry someone mean “shunning” them? Are we really “shunning” everyone who we decide not to marry? Are we really obligated to use no judgment whatsoever when choosing a spouse, because Jesus “ate with sinners”?

 

[HouseArrest]

I beg your pardon? I am sorry, but you don’t know me. At all. When I used to post on this forum I was 13 and 14, and those posts are mainly buried by now. I am older and I hold my Catholic faith dear to me. I also hold my loved ones dear. If I may be blunt, I wish no accusations whatsoever thrown at me by a person who doesn’t have a clue about me. I understand you may be speaking from personal experience, but I am not that person. Not be there for him? Do you know how harsh those words are? And saying more concerned about the children implies more than one horrible thing about him. And I’m not quite sure whether to laugh or cry at that bit about vanity.

I asked a question. I wished a reply. Instead I got posts about how we should not be together based purely on the fact that he is not strictly religious. We are devoted and the question was to imply that what if one is devoted even without the ceremony and Sacrament. And there is no need anymore to answer, we have sorted that all out since the last time I posted in this thread.

I can understand you were in a similar situation. But it is not the same situation. I know one is to love God above all. And I do love Him and will follow His teaching and rules to the best of my ability. But that does not mean that I cannot care very deeply for other people as well. Jesus ate with sinners and while He did not applaud their ways He neither shunned them nor chose to eat with saints instead.

Looking at this conversation, it seems that Black Jaque is telling you what happened to him, and that he needed a valid marriage and love of God above his wife to deal with it. It does not seem to me he was saying your boyfriend will do the same.

But I can almost guarantee you that sometime in your marriage you will have not the exact same test but one similar. There are all sorts of bad storms a marriage must weather and if you are not on the same page about what marriage is, and even if it is needed at all, you’re probably not going to make it. That’s just the cold hard truth.

 

[kage_ar]

If a Catholic and non-Catholic want to get married, but the non-Catholic doesn’t really think it’s needed (why should it be so that their love doesn’t really count until official marriage), but they’re willing to go along with it to please the other, then can they get married in the Catholic Church?

What would each of them consider the reason for marriage?

 

[ElizabethAnne]

All entirely valid points, though I will hasten to point out that marriage works thanks to the people in it, not the Lord above.

Jwlynas, as Catholics we believe that marriage is a sacrament by which the Lord showers graces on the couple. Marriage is not just between a husband and a wife; Catholic marriage includes God. I recommend Bishop Fulton Sheen’s book “Three to Get Married.”

I’ve been married just over two years, and I know already that I could not make my marriage work all on my own or even with just my husband’s help. God alone is teaching us how to love as He loved so that we can fulfill our vows.

As for my definiton of love, in this case it is a love that would make me defy the wishes of my family and my God to be with her, not through lust, but through a knowledge that whatever else happens, we will both be there for one another, and the love felt is strong enough to sustain me even through torture.

Love never defies the wishes of God. God is love, so it is impossible for genuine love to be divorced from Love itself. I have learned that God always wants what is best for me, He always wants what is best for my husband and He always wants what is best for our marriage. My love for God never interferes with my love for my husband. Instead, my love for the Lord strenthens and deepens my love for my husband, guiding me to be a better wife.

And on a practical note, it is not a great idea to ask someone to become a member of your family when that family is hostile toward them. As much as it is possible, a person planning to get married should have good relationships with their family and promote understanding between those people and their spouse-to-be. It is really difficult to come into a family with tension and conflict waiting for you. Reasonable efforts to help family with the transition of adding a new member, can go a long way.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

I beg your pardon? I am sorry, but you don’t know me. At all.

I don’t speak for BlackJaque, but I interpreted his post as responding to Jwlynas, not you. I don’t think he ever meant to imply that you would leave the Catholic faith.

I asked a question. I wished a reply. Instead I got posts about how we should not be together based purely on the fact that he is not strictly religious. We are devoted and the question was to imply that what if one is devoted even without the ceremony and Sacrament. And there is no need anymore to answer, we have sorted that all out since the last time I posted in this thread.

I am glad to hear that you have sorted things out with this young man. I wish you all the best. I do agree, however, with other posters who said that anyone marrying in the Catholic Church must be able to give his/her consent and vows. True consent and true fulfillment of vows is likely to be impossible for someone who does not believe marriage is necessary. The commitment to marriage and all that entails is absolutely necessary for maintaining a lifelong relationship, raising children and, most importantly, helping each other to heaven.

 

[chevalier]

If a Catholic and non-Catholic want to get married, but the non-Catholic doesn’t really think it’s needed (why should it be so that their love doesn’t really count until official marriage), but they’re willing to go along with it to please the other, then can they get married in the Catholic Church?

I would worry about defects of consent. Apart from room for simulation, there’s the danger that the non-Catholic has different notions of things which are important: sacrament, exclusivity, indissolubility. Or different notions of duties in marriages. So…

And some time ago, I was very close to a Catholic girl gone agnostic. Now I’m much freer that I no longer have to wonder if I can in good conscience marry her. Takes time and effort actually learning to live without her, but the freedom is so noticeable and the lack of worries of where it will lead me faith-wise, as well as the faith of the future children, that’s something I wouldn’t exchange for anything in the world.