Married again?

[JackPaul]

I was married to my wife for eleven years before I found Jesus in the RCC. We went to those focus classes and filled out all the forms and had previous marriages annulled and bingo, we were in.

But, what do we tell those who have failed at their previous marriage and can’t get it annulled? Sorry, you can’t be a RC because you broke the sacred rules? I realize that marriage in the RC is a sacrament and it is not taken lightly. It is given by God himself and is only given out once per lifetime. You just can’t undo what God has done…

But I can commit any other sin and I will be forgiven. Any sin…
Adultery? No problem.
Murder? No problem.
Stealing? No problem.
Marriage? Well, that is not a sin; it’s a sacrament.
So, if I was married thirty years ago for six months and it didn’t work out, then thirty years later decided that I want to be a RC; it depends? If I can’t have my first marriage annulled, I am out of the club? No Sacraments? No special blessings? No Funeral?

I know the right answer to this as far as the Church goes, but I have a hard time with a middle aged person being denied the Church because of a past marriage, when any and all sins can and will be forgiven. But if they are two baptized persons who were married sacrament ally, they are toast.

Any thoughts?

 

[km112482]

JackPaul:

I was married to my wife for eleven years before I found Jesus in the RCC. We went to those focus classes and filled out all the forms and had previous marriages annulled and bingo, we were in.

But, what do we tell those who have failed at their previous marriage and can’t get it annulled? Sorry, you can’t be a RC because you broke the sacred rules? I realize that marriage in the RC is a sacrament and it is not taken lightly. It is given by God himself and is only given out once per lifetime. You just can’t undo what God has done…

But I can commit any other sin and I will be forgiven. Any sin…
Adultery? No problem.
Murder? No problem.
Stealing? No problem.
Marriage? Well, that is not a sin; it’s a sacrament.
So, if I was married thirty years ago for six months and it didn’t work out, then thirty years later decided that I want to be a RC; it depends? If I can’t have my first marriage annulled, I am out of the club? No Sacraments? No special blessings? No Funeral?

I know the right answer to this as far as the Church goes, but I have a hard time with a middle aged person being denied the Church because of a past marriage, when any and all sins can and will be forgiven. But if they are two baptized persons who were married sacrament ally, they are toast.

Any thoughts?

My brother in law was married at the age of 18. Him and his wife had a civil union. She left him because she was cheating on him. They did get a divorce and he is a RC. A few years later he met someone else and they were married with no problem. The church didnt recognize his first union as valid because it was only a civil union they were never married in the church. He is now divorced from his second wife who also cheated on him. Now if he would want to get married in the church again he would have to have an annulment from that marriage.

I hope that helps. I am not an expert on this, but I am just trying to tell you a situation that I knew of from my families own experience.

God Bless, Kerri

 

[pazdziernik]

If someone did not have their marriage declared null then this means that they are married. They can not validly contract another marriage. They should not have relations with someone who they are not married to, else it would be adultery and so forth. If they are living with someone who is not their husband or wife then they should either seperate or live as brother and sister. Doing the right thing can be difficult at times, but so is living the Catholic Faith. Marriage is not an impediment to entering the Catholic Church.

 

[1ke]

JackPaul:

But, what do we tell those who have failed at their previous marriage and can’t get it annulled? Sorry, you can’t be a RC because you broke the sacred rules?

Divorce is not an impediment to entering the Church. Remarriage without an annulment is an impediment because the person is in a state of **perpetual ** adultery.

JackPaul:

But I can commit any other sin and I will be forgiven. Any sin…
Adultery? No problem.
Murder? No problem.
Stealing? No problem.
Marriage? Well, that is not a sin; it’s a sacrament.

Again, the marriage is not the problem. A divorced person who is not remarried has no impediment. And, as to being forgiven, forgiveness is predicated on a firm commitment to not commit the sin in the future-- contrition.

JackPaul:

So, if I was married thirty years ago for six months and it didn’t work out, then thirty years later decided that I want to be a RC; it depends? If I can’t have my first marriage annulled, I am out of the club? No Sacraments? No special blessings? No Funeral?

No, that is not true. If you are divorced and not remarried, there is no impediment. If you are divorced and remarried then you are committing adultery if the first marriage is judged to be valid. You can receive the Sacraments if you discontinue the invalid union and repent through the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

 

[JimG]

I had an aunt who was in a similar situation. She married young to a man who left her after a few months. She was not able to obtain a decree of nullity for that marriage. Eventually she met and married a very good man who remained with her until his death. Because of the prior marriage, she could not receive communion, but she attended Mass every week and was active in her parish. Eventually because of age and medical problems her 2nd husbmand was no longer able to engage in conjugal relations. At that point whe went to confession and returned to receiving communion.

 

[HagiaSophia]

JackPaul:

Any thoughts?

Yes, your problem I think is in mixing up two different things and therefore are not logically understanding the church position.

When we sin we can be forgiven and how do we do that? We say as part of our Act of Contrition: “…and I firmly resolve with the help of Thy grace to confess my sins, to do penance, and to amend my life.” Then the priest offers the absolution.

When one has remaried without receiving the decrees of nullity, one is not amending one’s life, one is not doing the penance of going through the process and thus one cannot approach the Eucharist. In fact one is living in a continuing state of sin.

Divorcing is NOT the problem - those divorced confess, and go to Communion with everyone else. By not remarrying or as it is today, living with someone, they are amending their lives, they are doing the penance, therefore the priest is free to offer absolution.

I hope this helps in your understanding of the issues.

 

[JackPaul]

Thanks for your replies…
A very faithful RC who attends Mass at least weekly posed this question to me. When she was 18 yrs. she was not actively going to Church and did not place a high value on being Catholic. She married a man who was also not practicing his faith, his father was a Pentecostal minister. Now, 30 years later, her faith and Church of her childhood are more important to her than anything. She absolutely loathes her husband’s church and he feels likewise about hers. She cannot receive communion because her wedding was not sacramental and her husband refuses to have it blessed. So, because of the choice she made in marrying her husband outside the Church, even though this was thirty years ago, she cannot receive the sacraments. This is an impediment to her salvation that is impossible to rectify, atleast whithout her husband’s cooperation. He thinks the RC’s are unreasonable and will not bend on his position. I guess she could refuse conjugal relations with him until he decides to rethink his position, which would likely take care of the problem.

 

[Celia]

In regards to the last post, I think that your friend may still be eligible to have her marriage blessed even without the consent of her husband…I’ve heard it called a “sanation” or something like that…I would have her talk to a priest about it. (their marriage I believe will be considered valid but not sacramental, if I am not mistaken, but she will be able to recieve communion as she will be in a marriage recognized by the church.)

 

[JackPaul]

Thanks Celia,
I hope you are right on this. I will tell her to talk to her Priest about this.

 

[Celia]

no prob here’s a link that explains it better than I could:

catholic.com/thisrock/1995/9504qq.asp

My husband and I are in the process of recieving a convalidation now. It’s frustrating sometimes. the whole marriage thing is confusing within the church sometimes too. Luckily, I have a great husband that doesn’t mind the convalidation process. Tell your friend to hang in there and pray.

 

[puzzleannie]

JackPaul:

So, because of the choice she made in marrying her husband outside the Church, even though this was thirty years ago, she cannot receive the sacraments. This is an impediment to her salvation that is impossible to rectify, atleast whithout her husband’s cooperation. .

exactly, when we make choices we pay the consequences, which are attached to the choice and are logical outcomes of the choice. They are not imposed arbitrarily by the Church, they flow from the actions we take.

All marriages are considered valid until proven otherwise, which means proven to a reasonable standard as judge by the diocesan marriage tribunal who investigates the case and affirmed by the bishop, that consent was not present or not possible or that the pre-conditions for a valid marriage did not exist. the judgement does not depend on anything that happened after the marriage (although that may provide indications of circumstances existing beforehand). to take any other position would be to cast all marriages of all persons, baptized, unbaptized, Catholic, other denominations in doubt, which would be not only heretical but certainly not ecumenical.

When someone enters the Church, or returns to the full communion with the Church after a period of separation, they make a profession of faith, a full confession and receive absolution of past sins (or the sins are removed through baptism) and agree to agree and accept and based their actions on all that the Catholic church believes and teaches.

There is no sin attached to a person who married prior to this and subsequently divorces before their entry into the Church because they were not bound at that time by Church laws on marriage. Once they do enter the Church, they do agree to bind themselves to those laws, and to all other Church teaching. That is why the RCIA process is so long, so that the person may have time for a full understanding and teaching on those laws.

 

[stbruno]

Here is a wonderful resource to answer questions about mariage.
www.inthespiritofcana.org

Check it out!

 

[JackPaul]

Thanks for the great links, especially the one to the Catholic Answers site. The question asked there is exactly the situation this person is in, it is just worded better than I can word it. Sanation is the word, now if she can convince the Bishop, she should be in good shape.

 

[1ke]

JackPaul:

Thanks for your replies…
A very faithful RC who attends Mass at least weekly posed this question to me. When she was 18 yrs. she was not actively going to Church and did not place a high value on being Catholic. She married a man who was also not practicing his faith, his father was a Pentecostal minister. Now, 30 years later, her faith and Church of her childhood are more important to her than anything. She absolutely loathes her husband’s church and he feels likewise about hers. She cannot receive communion because her wedding was not sacramental and her husband refuses to have it blessed. So, because of the choice she made in marrying her husband outside the Church, even though this was thirty years ago, she cannot receive the sacraments. This is an impediment to her salvation that is impossible to rectify, atleast whithout her husband’s cooperation. He thinks the RC’s are unreasonable and will not bend on his position. I guess she could refuse conjugal relations with him until he decides to rethink his position, which would likely take care of the problem.

Jack, If I understand you correctly, this woman has never divorced. She is married to her one, and only, husband. Correct?

If this is the case there is no impediment to her receiving the Sacraments. You are correct that she has what is called a “lack of form” because she married outside the church. Basically she violated Canon Law. Therefore, while her marriage is valid civilly, it is not viewed as a sacramental marriage.

She should talk to a priest to remedy the situation.

 

[JackPaul]

puzzleannie:

exactly, when we make choices we pay the consequences, which are attached to the choice and are logical outcomes of the choice. They are not imposed arbitrarily by the Church, they flow from the actions we take.

This is exactly what I was concerned or complaining about. How many 18-year-old kids are more serious about the opposite sex than they are about Church? How many of those same kids run off and elope with someone Mom and Dad didn’t approve of? Now, that same kid is 45 years old and her evangelical husband will not set foot in a Catholic Church and views all Catholic proceedings as silly. They are of a culture that will not allow the woman to have an opinion and the man’s word rules the house. But the woman wants so badly to go back and be in communion with her mother’s Church and the Church of her childhood. Are you seeing the picture? We can repent from a sin of adultery and be taken back into the fold (I know… Apples vs. Oranges). But, if we made a mistake such as this, what is the recourse? Evidently, it is by obtaining a radical sanation. My point was that we have all sinned and made grave mistakes, but we all still need God. No sin is too large to be unforgiven, so no mistake should be too large to separate us from God. I knew the Church had to have a way to work these types of issues. Thanks be to God…

 

[JackPaul]

1ke:

Jack, If I understand you correctly, this woman has never divorced. She is married to her one, and only, husband. Correct?

If this is the case there is no impediment to her receiving the Sacraments. You are correct that she has what is called a “lack of form” because she married outside the church. Basically she violated Canon Law. Therefore, while her marriage is valid civilly, it is not viewed as a sacramental marriage.

She should talk to a priest to remedy the situation.

Thanks for posting. Yes, she has been married only once, and raised two kids (grown and gone) as Catholics. It is amazing how many of us are ignorant of these kinds of things. How many are in her same shoes and because of what little they understand, they stay away because they think they have done something that can’t be rectified. She has been going to Mass for years, but not receiving because of her marital state. If I can give her some hope, she will likely go to a priest and get this straightened out. She was of the opinion that nothing could be done.

 

[chevalier]

Just to keep things clear: marriage between two batpised persons is always sacramental if it’s valid. For a Catholic, it’s only valid if it’s allowed in the Canon Law (impediments, dispensation, canonical form etc). For two non-Catholics, the marriage will be sacramental even if it’s just civil, unless it for some reason had been null and void since the beginning.

Caution, however: there is no such thing as true annulment. The Church doesn’t make a marriage retroactively null and void. She can only investiagate the matter and see if a valid matrimony had been contracted or not (e.g. defective consent, incest, previous marriage, whatever such) and can’t change it.

You can have a valid marriage dissolved if your spouse had never been baptised and disturbs your religious worship, refuses to allow you to practice your faith in peace and so on. You can’t do a thing if the spouse is baptised, though.

You can have a valid and sacramental marriage dissolved if it hasn’t been consummated (Pope’s own faculty). And don’t ask me what happens to the sacrament because I don’t know. The sacrament is supposed to be in a marriage which is valid, not one which is invalid but presumed valid, but the Church has some unclear rules on those presumptions. I’m a law student myself and can’t figure the stuff out. Caution: you can have children from an unconsummated marriage. How? Contraception (at least rubber, don’t know about pills), anything less than full consent, lack of penetration with ejaculation (must be a full and humane act), and so on.

The number of declarations of nullity issued for converts is alarming, but this may well mean that there’s simply a lot of invalid in the eyes of the Church but civilly legal marriages.

A word or two of a kind request to anyone ever taking part in a nullity trial: this is a matter of a sacrament. The judge doesn’t make it valid or not depending on whether you convince him - he can’t. If you twist his right reason towards granting a declaration of nullity, you’re likely pushing someone into perpetual fornication, let alone separating sacramentally married spouses. Don’t do that. Ever. Even a genuine desire to “help” the people is not enough. Stay impartial. Please.

 

[shortcut]

JackPaul:

I was married to my wife for eleven years before I found Jesus in the RCC. We went to those focus classes and filled out all the forms and had previous marriages annulled and bingo, we were in.

But, what do we tell those who have failed at their previous marriage and can’t get it annulled? Sorry, you can’t be a RC because you broke the sacred rules? I realize that marriage in the RC is a sacrament and it is not taken lightly. It is given by God himself and is only given out once per lifetime. You just can’t undo what God has done…

But I can commit any other sin and I will be forgiven. Any sin…
Adultery? No problem.
Murder? No problem.
Stealing? No problem.
Marriage? Well, that is not a sin; it’s a sacrament.
So, if I was married thirty years ago for six months and it didn’t work out, then thirty years later decided that I want to be a RC; it depends? If I can’t have my first marriage annulled, I am out of the club? No Sacraments? No special blessings? No Funeral?

I know the right answer to this as far as the Church goes, but I have a hard time with a middle aged person being denied the Church because of a past marriage, when any and all sins can and will be forgiven. But if they are two baptized persons who were married sacrament ally, they are toast.

Any thoughts?

Is it possible that the sin was engaging in the sacrament of marriage with the wrong person? I only say this because if so…I know it was wrong…I am truly sorry…And I promise not to marry this person again. Am I not forgiven!!!