Married and celibate

[AKAJohn]

AKAJohn, I have to say that I think there is something more going on, whether it be post partum depression or something else.

I would ask her why, if she does indeed want to be intimate before menopause, she hasn’t found a way. I mean, there are days that have pretty much zero chance in resulting in pregnancy. The fact that she is not thinking in this direction might mean there are other things for you guys to talk about.

Yes, I agree. I just think now that maybe she is just overwhelmed with the baby is not really thinking straight. The last week has been good. She does good when baby does good. So, I’m hopeful, when she starts her cycles on a regular basis, she will reconsider. Right, now I kinda have to just give her as much support as I can.

Thank you all, for your suggests and prayers. I really appreciate everyone!

 

[dianaballein]

John,

Would your wife be open to looking at the Marquette Model of NFP? In addition to fertility signs you also use a fertility monitor and can p(name removed by moderator)oint ovulation. You could then use the post-ovulation phase for intimacy.

Several people on this board have started using Marquette and just rave about how precise it is with the fertility monitor.

You can get pregnant, even when you aren’t ovulating. I have friends who got pregnant when they were menstruating! Life can not always be planned. Life happens.

I feel for you, OP. I do. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

By the way, what does your wife do for herself, if I may ask? Four children, little adult interaction, breast feeding makes your hormones rage…if she does not ever have time alone or for herself, with friends, other adults, etc. this can cause severe depression and she may be blaming the kids for it, which in turn makes her shout “NO MORE KIDS!”.

 

[EvelynEVF]

Regardless of how fabulous the Marquette method may be, breastfeeding can really throw a wrench into the works. It can cause temporary infertility for quite a long time, but the temp charts can look like roller coasters, and cervical mucus can be weird, too. If she is not ovulating regularly, there is not really a nice safe phase three; she’s trapped in phase one indefinitely. BTDT that it’s a real pain.

Having been there, and had a touch of PPD as well, I would suggest with utmost respect to your wife that her mind may change a bit as circumstances improve. Please don’t give up hope or become bitter.

What jumps out at me is, What can you do to get her to daily Mass? It’s only a half hour probably, so could you keep the baby happy in a sling and the other kids mostly fend for themselves?

 

[AKAJohn]

By the way, what does your wife do for herself, if I may ask? Four children, little adult interaction, breast feeding makes your hormones rage…if she does not ever have time alone or for herself, with friends, other adults, etc. this can cause severe depression and she may be blaming the kids for it, which in turn makes her shout “NO MORE KIDS!”.

No, she is doing ok, she gets togehter with friends, family and things. I think she has just had enough. At our age, having another and another, etc… starts getting crazy and just difficult all around.

 

[AKAJohn]

What jumps out at me is, What can you do to get her to daily Mass? It’s only a half hour probably, so could you keep the baby happy in a sling and the other kids mostly fend for themselves?

The mass schedule in our area is just too early to get the baby up and fed and out the door. I think once the baby is older she’ll be able to that easier. She is very much a schedule person and doesn’t want to disturb the babies pattern.

 

[cjcapta]

Here are some sites for different models of NFP, and you can also search the forums here for more models and descriptions.

creightonmodel.com/

popepaulvi.com/

Okay, so does NFP mean using the cycle to know when a woman can’t be pregnant? If it does, then why is it called natural family planning? And I think another person said this also, but what do you mean it didn’t work? Also, when you say you used the NFP method, does that mean there are other methods?

 

[danimay]

AKAJohn,

For ALOT of woman, breastfeeding completely removes the desire for intimacy. When she is finished nursing, her normal desires may return. Have patience and hope.

 

[Cliff_Jumper]

cjcapta, NFP essentially enables the woman to know when she is least likely to get pregnant. NFP is the name for a broad category of varying models. There are several different models that can be used to fit one’s preference. It is called Natural Family Planning because i does not utilize in artificial contraceptives. It is completely natural. The NFP method AKAJohn used worked for 8 years, but he was blessed with another child. NFP is as effective if not more effective than the artificial contraceptives.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

**My husband and I have been in a very similar situation for over 2 years now. Before we conceived our little monkey I had only been using NFP confidently for about a year. Then came post-partum, breastfeeding, a baby with sleep issues and sensory issues, and I am chronically ill on top of it all. We abstained A LOT.

Our monkey breastfed until 23 months (June) and my cycles are only now beginning to look recognizable. And now hubby is going to be away until next June (military). So we can sympathize with your struggles for sure!!! It is NOT easy. But we are both committed to each other and to God.

So continue to be patient and loving to your wife. Help her.

And for those of you who think that these situations call for “other” measures…contraception is a grave sin. Period. Sure, during tough times one may fall into other sin, like masturbation etc…but those can be confessed and you try sincerely not to let it happen again. But you can’t exactly go in every week and confess contraception KNOWING you will continue to use it anyways.

And knowing the difference between NFP and artificial birth control, let me just say that I would never put my trust in a pill or device over the knowledge God has provided us of our own bodies. Contraception fails all the time…then what?**

Prayers for you and your family OP…with God’s grace you can overcome this cross.

 

[kage_ar]

You can get pregnant, even when you aren’t ovulating. I have friends who got pregnant when they were menstruating! Life can not always be planned. Life happens.

Ovulation is the only way an egg is released allowing it to be fertilized. For the most conservative methods of NFP, the menstrual cycle are NOT considered safe days, as the menstrual fluid can hide the fertile mucuos that shows you are ovulatig.

 

[Seatuck]

cjcapta, NFP essentially enables the woman to know when she is least likely to get pregnant. NFP is the name for a broad category of varying models. There are several different models that can be used to fit one’s preference. It is called Natural Family Planning because i does not utilize in artificial contraceptives. It is completely natural. The NFP method AKAJohn used worked for 8 years, but he was blessed with another child. NFP is as effective if not more effective than the artificial contraceptives.

Lets not forget the NFP is also used as a tool to get pregnant. NFP is a method or tool that enables a woman to understand her body and fertility cycles through observation of bodily symptoms.

 

[Cliff_Jumper]

Lets not forget the NFP is also used as a tool to get pregnant. NFP is a method or tool that enables a woman to understand her body and fertility cycles through observation of bodily symptoms.

good point, thank you Seatuck.

 

[easter1]

qoute"Practice extreme charity and generosity toward your precious wife"

Other word LOVE YOUR WIFE AS YOUR SELF

Next time you have that kind of wanting turn to pray, pray to see: God Grace in your wife and pray for her( bet you will be happy er )

prayer said for you both

Our Father
Hail Mary
Glory Be
AMEN

 

[UntilTheEnd]

Hi everyone, my first post. Not sure if this is place for this but I thought I would try. I will try to make this short, we have four children, the last recently. After the first three we went eight years on NFP method until God gave us a fourth, quite by suprise. We love the child and feel blessed, but it has been a tremendous struggle for my wife, we are older, in our forties and the burden for her has been tremendous. I will not go into details, but she is an emotional mess and many times in tears by the time I get home from work.

Rightly or wrongly, she is absolutely certain that she wants no more children. Since NFP has not worked for us, she has decided that we will no longer be intimate. This means no contact at all other than an occasional hug, she is very beautiful and it doesn’t take much to stir the fire.

It’s been almost a year without any kind of intimacy and, I’m really really struggling with this. I realize this is the only way to fulfill Church teachings and do not need to discuss theology of the body.

Nonetheless, I feel very angry at times, like I’ve been denied closeness with my wife. Making love to her was so powerful and beautiful. Now, I have nothing more than fading memories of what that was like. Unfortunately, my weak state has allowed my old demons to return. Things that have been out of my life for years. Pornography, lust for other women, and well the M word. I need confession more than ever to fight all of this.

Maybe this is just a transformation for me to become better and holier person, but right now, I feel that I simply cannot carry on this way much longer, that I’m on some kind of downward spiral.

hello john,

I would like to send you a private message, but you dont have it set up that way…

I think I can identify with your wife from what I have read. I had post postpartum depression after my two babies and the 2nd time was worse…and i felt exactly the same way…my FEELINGS were that i didnt want anymore children because i couldnt go through these absolutely horrible feelings again…but i KNEW that’s not what i wanted deep down…so for a while sex wasn’t even a thought in my head…i felt so overwhelmed, i felt like i could hardly give myself to my toddler and new baby, so how could i give myself to my husband. I felt like it would have been giving him an empty shell.

If you think shes an “emotional wreck” it sounds like some kind of depression, is it hard for her to get through everyday things (different than not being able to get things done because of a new baby). Is she happy?

You also said it has taken a toll on her, is that in a physical way? Does she have physical problems resulting from the pregnancy/birth?

If you click on my name and send me a private message, I would like to share some insights with you about our situation (if your open to it of course)…I now know how hard that experience was on my husband and some of the same “struggles” he went through

 

[ChristIsLord]

I’m married and celibate but mainly because my wife is frigid not because I want to be. It’s no fun let me tell you.

 

[basilisk]

I’m married and celibate but mainly because **my wife is frigid **not because I want to be. It’s no fun let me tell you.

Wow… people still use that term?

Very very few women are physically unable to climax, which is the meaning of “frigid” as I understand it.

The usual causes are emotional, hormonal, relationship stress or trouble, and men who perhaps don’t put in the time and effort needed to be good lovers. (And to be fair, sometimes that’s out of ignorance… not malice or neglect.) And then, there are just some women who take their men for granted and don’t think they should have to be bothered with “servicing” them. (That’s their view, not mine…)

Whatever the problem is, going around calling one’s wife “frigid” is not going to solve it.

As for AKAJohn, I am sorry your marriage is suffering, and that you are suffering. I don’t really have any advice for you, but will send up a prayer that you and your wife discern a solution that is positive for yourselves and your marriage.

 

[ChristIsLord]

Wow… people still use that term?

Very very few women are physically unable to climax, which is the meaning of “frigid” as I understand it.

The usual causes are emotional, hormonal, relationship stress or trouble, and men who perhaps don’t put in the time and effort needed to be good lovers. (And to be fair, sometimes that’s out of ignorance… not malice or neglect.) And then, there are just some women who take their men for granted and don’t think they should have to be bothered with “servicing” them. (That’s their view, not mine…)

Whatever the problem is, going around calling one’s wife “frigid” is not going to solve it.

As for AKAJohn, I am sorry your marriage is suffering, and that you are suffering. I don’t really have any advice for you, but will send up a prayer that you and your wife discern a solution that is positive for yourselves and your marriage.

No she’s frigid (the term doesn’t always have to mean not able to climax, terms evolve, today frigid would mean a woman who doesn’t like sex), and she doesn’t want it solved, she could go the rest of her life and not think about sex, it is what it is…

It has more to do with the Churches teaching on contraception and the fact that we keep enduring miscarriages or children dying on us. It’s worn her down to the point where the idea of sex or being pregnant makes her depressed. It doesn’t have to do with my value as a “lover” or her not wanting to be bothered she’s a good wife, she offers for my sake but when there’s no connection and you know the other person is just doing it for you, it becomes a rather horrible act.

I can live with it I suppose.

 

[basilisk]

ChristIsLord, that is one of the saddest posts I ever read. I am so sorry. You’re going on the prayer list too.

 

[Catholic_Johnny]

I will get heat for this, but I’m surpised no one has even brought this up. Your wife may be in serious sin, AKAJohn:

The husband should fulfill his duty toward his wife, and likewise the wife toward her husband. 4 A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control. 6 This I say by way of concession, 4 however, not as a command. 7 Indeed, I wish everyone to be as I am, but each has a particular gift from God, 5 one of one kind and one of another.
1 Corinthians 7 (Saint Paul)

Your lovely wife is in flagrant violation of these Christian marital principles. She is arrogating power to herself that is to be shared and and exposing you to serious temptation. This could cause many more long term problems than it was intended to solve.

Sorry if I sound severe, but no one else is saying it and you need to know what the Scripture has already stated on this subject. Same goes for you, dear brother ChristIsLord. I feel very sad for both of you. My career takes me away from home for as long as a year at a time, and I have had to deal with many separations from my wife - and it is indeed a sacrifice.

With prayer,
CJ

 

[EvelynEVF]

CJ, thank you for pointing that out.

However, please realize that there is some measure of mutual consent going on. Having been in a marriage where I was constantly reminded that I had a Christian duty to perform, I will say that that sort of sexual contact is devastating. Yep, there may be temptation with waiting for a wife who is postpartum or whatever, but there are ways to overcome that and grow through it that do not require devaluing and dishonoring one’s spouse.

There has to be a happy medium somewhere.