Married but Childless Support group

[anilorak13ska]

There is a lot of pressure on Catholic married couples to procreate. Maybe not directly in the form of incessant questions from well-meaning would-be grandparents or nosy neighbors in search of some gossip, but certainly the pressure is there. If this is you, then you know what I’m talking about, and this thread is for you.

(Others are welcome, but please be aware that the goal of this thread is to offer a place of support for those of us who can relate to each other’s lot in life as being married but childless. If you have children, even if thanks to NaproTechnology or adoption, please refrain from trying to tell us how to go about starting a family. This thread is not a “how to finally have a child” thread, but a thread where childless marrieds can offer each other support and understanding. You may send us happy thoughts, but if you have kids, even after extended infertility, you cannot really offer us the understanding that we need. Thanks for keeping that in mind when you comment.)

So with the pressure on Catholic couples to procreate, it is no surprise to find many turning to illicit treatments to accomplish this end. Of course, many are able to be blessed through adoption. However, the truth is that - and this is absolutely crucial to anyone not in our shoes who would like to offer advice - not everyone is able, or even eligible, to adopt!

I know there’s others like us, who have suffered for years in silence because there’s no outlet for them. Others may judge them for not adopting, or accuse them of contracepting,when they have no idea what they’re really going through.

I hope this can be a uniquely Catholic outlet for those of us who find ourselves in this “no-man’s land” of family life. After all, on our wedding day, God made my husband and me a family of two. We are already a family, albeit without children. We vowed to be open to new life, but God has not willed it so far.

So what do we do in the meantime? How else can we be of service to the Lord, if not by procreating or even educating children? Why has God called us to the married vocation if that vocation was not to include children? What can we do to feel more included in our parish life as a childless married couple? What might our parishes do differently to encourage childless couples to seek God’s will rather than turning to what society-at-large promotes, ie. “a baby at any cost”?

Let’s help each other, starting with acknowledging that we are not alone. :hug1::console::grouphug::hug3:

 

[EasterJoy]

We had been married for nine years when our twins were born. Yes, I have been approached by someone who was concerned that we were not “open to life”, including someone who himself had adopted children because he and his wife couldn’t conceive(?!?)

For a couple with God, “Where a lone man may be overcome, two together can resist. A three-ply cord is not easily broken.” Eccl. 4:12. There is something for you to do for God as a couple, trust in that. You can challenge other childless couples to join you, too!

 

[anilorak13ska]

We had been married for nine years when our twins were born. Yes, I have been approached by someone who was concerned that we were not “open to life”, including someone who himself had adopted children because he and his wife couldn’t conceive(?!?)

That really is a head-scratcher.

For a couple with God, “Where a lone man may be overcome, two together can resist. A three-ply cord is not easily broken.” Eccl. 4:12. There is something for you to do for God as a couple, trust in that. You can challenge other childless couples to join you, too!

Thanks for this, EasterJoy. We’ve both definitely grown in our faith thanks to each other, so already I see God’s work in bringing us together. What I’m hoping for now is to discern some concrete ministries that He’s calling us to as a couple. We’ve both joined our parish’s Green Team, and we’re involved with a monthly meeting of couples who’ve experienced Worldwide Marriage Encounter. So I guess that’s a start

 

[anilorak13ska]

Also just started a Group, not sure which outlet may be more useful. Bare with me as I try to figure it out

forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=1616&gmid=115854#gmessage115854

 

[UpUpAndAway]

There is a lot of pressure on Catholic married couples to procreate. Maybe not directly in the form of incessant questions from well-meaning would-be grandparents or nosy neighbors in search of some gossip, but certainly the pressure is there. If this is you, then you know what I’m talking about, and this thread is for you.

I’m sorry for those of you who experience pressure to have children and/or judgmental behavior from others because you don’t have children.

The Husband and I have been married for over ten years. We do not have children for medical reasons I won’t go into - the only people who know the whole story are The Husband, me, four medical professionals, and my parish priest. Even our parents don’t know. We have accepted that we may never be parents, and if not, we have come to understand - with the invaluable guidance of my wonderful parish priest - that our childlessness will mean God has chosen other missions for us.

I have been in my current parish for six years, though I didn’t regularly attend Mass for the first two of those (long story) and I am almost always alone at Mass because The Husband is not Catholic. I don’t know of another married woman my age in my parish who doesn’t have at least one child, yet people have been quite charitable towards me on this topic. New acquaintances inevitably ask if I have kids, and when I say no they always say something along the lines of, “Well, that will come,” sometimes followed by stories of how they had x number of anxious years before their first child was born. In other words, they acknowledge that sometimes fertility takes its time manifesting itself, they assume we are not contracepting, and even after finding out how long we’ve been married they encourage me not to lose hope. Because of this attitude, I’ve not felt any drive to have “a baby at any cost.” What I feel instead is the support and encouragement of a parish community that will accept me no matter what. I understand this is not everyone’s experience, and it saddens me to think that what I have may be uncommon or even rare.

So what do we do in the meantime? How else can we be of service to the Lord, if not by procreating or even educating children? What can we do to feel more included in our parish life as a childless married couple?

Your answer might be right here:

I know there’s others like us, who have suffered for years in silence because there’s no outlet for them. Others may judge them for not adopting, or accuse them of contracepting,when they have no idea what they’re really going through.

Is there a support group for childless married couples in your parish? If not, perhaps you could start one. There are also all the other activities a parish engages in that aren’t necessarily meant expressly for couples but are still important: helping the poor, comforting the grieving, visiting the sick/hospitalized/lonely/housebound, etc…even though this work isn’t specifically couples-oriented, you and your husband could participate in these missions as a couple. I recently joined my parish’s apostolate responsible for the hospital chaplaincies and home visits, which is led by a couple (one of our permanent deacons and his wife).

Why has God called us to the married vocation if that vocation was not to include children?

That’s the million-dollar question. Only He knows the answer.

What might our parishes do differently to encourage childless couples to seek God’s will rather than turning to what society-at-large promotes, ie. “a baby at any cost”?

I wish I knew. I can hold up my own parish as an example of the attitude I think a parish should have towards its childless married members, but I couldn’t possibly tell you how to instill this mindset into other parishes. It seems the atmosphere in mine is either a remnant of the pre-ABC era or something that developed over time (how much time I couldn’t say, since it was already like this when I arrived).

I have to ask - what’s a Green Team? We don’t have one of those in my parish (or if we do, it’s called something else).

 

[anilorak13ska]

UpUpandAway, what you describe sounds like the idyllic atmosphere all of us should have at our parishes. I wonder if part of it too is your positive attitude.

I guess I didn’t include everything I should’ve in the OP… DH and I have been trying to start a support group at our parish for childless couples. We ran an ad in our bulletin for a month, but no takers. We’re going to run it again in the fall, but with a specific date and time for a meeting, in case someone wants to just drop in. (That’s what I’d rather do.)

A Green Team refers to a group of us working together to figure out how we as a faith community can implement changes to be better stewards of the Earth and resources entrusted to us by God.

 

[lynnvinc]

Childless & married 43 years. When people ask whether we have children, I’ve learned to say, “we were not blessed with children.” When they press further about what the problem is, I simply say “we are unable to have children.”

Tho we did think about adopting some 40 years ago, we were informed by others that we’d never be able to, being a mixed marriage (my husband is from India – he was the Catholic and I the convert – and I’m anglo). We also looked into international adoption but never found any good info on it. This was well before the internet. And there were other considerations…

Now in the twilight of our lives, I am happy to be doing environmental things to help make the world better for the children; it’s sort of like we are giving life to the children. I’ve found over the years that many people with children are adament anti-environmentalists (and a recent study backs that up, finding that people with children were somewhat less likely to accept there were environmental problems, like global warming). Another study found that GenerationXers (the ones who would have minor children now) are the least concerned about the environment and global warming. I think it might be bec they cannot imagine a worse, less viable world for their children and progeny, and also cannot stomach the idea that they themselves are contributing to something that will be harming their children.

So that leaves us people without children – childless couples, the “empty-nest” elders, priests, nuns, monks, and the Holy Father – to do what we can to save the earth for the children and help keep it a viable place. A labor of love.

Our earlier grief over not being able to have children has diminished over the decades, though my husband still has pangs now and then. We are kept busy doing what we can for our nieces and nephews and their children, and for all the children of the world.

 

[Moore11]

Childless & married 43 years. When people ask whether we have children, I’ve learned to say, “we were not blessed with children.” When they press further about what the problem is, I simply say “we are unable to have children.”

Tho we did think about adopting some 40 years ago, we were informed by others that we’d never be able to, being a mixed marriage (my husband is from India – he was the Catholic and I the convert – and I’m anglo). We also looked into international adoption but never found any good info on it. This was well before the internet. And there were other considerations…

Now in the twilight of our lives, I am happy to be doing environmental things to help make the world better for the children; it’s sort of like we are giving life to the children. I’ve found over the years that many people with children are adament anti-environmentalists (and a recent study backs that up, finding that people with children were somewhat less likely to accept there were environmental problems, like global warming). Another study found that GenerationXers (the ones who would have minor children now) are the least concerned about the environment and global warming. I think it might be bec they cannot imagine a worse, less viable world for their children and progeny, and also cannot stomach the idea that they themselves are contributing to something that will be harming their children.

So that leaves us people without children – childless couples, the “empty-nest” elders, priests, nuns, monks, and the Holy Father – to do what we can to save the earth for the children and help keep it a viable place. A labor of love.

Our earlier grief over not being able to have children has diminished over the decades, though my husband still has pangs now and then. We are kept busy doing what we can for our nieces and nephews and their children, and for all the children of the world.

This thread and specifically this post has made me stop and think.
I think when people assume something about a childless couple it comes from a few things.

1. We live in a world where most Catholics contracept.
2. We live in a world where if you have some sort of health problem you advertise it. Either by wearing a ribbon, having a bumper sticker or other some sort of “awareness” billboard.
3. We live in a world where we mistakenly believe that given enough money and effort we can medically solve anything.
4. It is just natural to see week after week a couple getting richer, getting a better house and nicer cars and wonder why they dont have the same money sucking little bundles of joy others have.

And while our cynical world has made the odds of judging a couple based on the above criteria rather accurate, we need to be careful that we dont overlook the very real pain others can feel.

Compounded onto all of that is lynnvinc’s environmental cause. We tend to lump the environmental cause with some pretty anti child philosophies.

Perhaps next time I see the earthy hippie elderly, childess couple getting out of thier Prius to go to Mass I will not assume so quickly that they are contracepting, gaia worshiping, HHS mandating Obama supporters.

In all seriousness I really hope the point is seen as things are not always as they seem and maybe sometimes we should use charity when assessing a couple without children that we really know nothing about.

All of that said, there is a real contracepting and antichild problem in the Church and society as a whole.

 

[lynnvinc]

This thread and specifically this post has made me stop and think…We tend to lump the environmental cause with some pretty anti child philosophies…

I agree there is a anti-child thread among environmentalism with the understanding that the earth’s carrying capacity (which is reducing now due to many serious enviro problems) cannot sustain population growth forever.

It is a difficult issue, and environmentalists sometimes tack on without much thought “the population problem” to the list of things people need to address to save the earth. But “save the earth” for whom? I ask them. Isn’t it for the children? (I have yet to meet one of those anti-human environmentalists that the anti-environmentalists claim they are always running into.) So I tell the environmentalists I know: “It doesn’t make sense to kill children in order to save the world for children.” They respond positively to that message – they are all also interested in making the world better for the children; that is their whole incentive.

((Of course, there are many ways to address “population”; abortion most certainly does NOT have to be part of the “solution” (but perhaps refraining from artificial insemination and techno-baby techniques & just accepting God’s will could be part of the solution). The Church is not against “the rhythm method,” and “abstinance makes the heart grow fonder.” The Church is not against vows of celibacy, and we do need many more priests, nuns, and monks devoting their lives to the spiritual and material uplift of others. There is nothing wrong with being childless in and of itself.))

Sometime back I read an article on Grist (and environmental e-zine) about being “baby-free” as something positive to do for the environment; it proposed putting up signs in the UK of a baby carriage with a slash thru it. I told them that was a terrible and harmful message to be sending children, implying there is something wrong with them. I related this story:

A Catholic friend of mine with twin girls was pregnant with her 3rd child. And people would ask whether she wanted a boy or girl, etc, and she’d give an answer. Then one day someone asked her twin girls whether they wanted a little brother or sister, and they responded, “I don’t care, as long as it isn’t twins.” My friend felt very bad that her twins had overhead her say that, and might now think there was something wrong with them being twins.

I then told the Grist bloggers that if they wanted to refrain from having children for the sake of the life of the world, they should not advertize it or exhibit that sign in public where children would see it.

I know that the Church views marriage as a union that is suppose to produce or be open to children (unless the couple is unable), but there might be some couples who enter into marriage with the idea of having children, and then later decide that they should not have children to participate in some good cause, such as allowing them to do missionary work or some other good work (not for amassing more wealth or having more free time for themselves). I don’t think it would be a sin after marriage deciding not to have children, as long as it was for some good purpose and employed the rhythm method or celibacy (not artificial contraception), but I’m not sure. However, I don’t know of any Catholic couple that has done that, but I would not sneer at or condemn people who remained childless for good cause.

 

[Moore11]

I agree there is a anti-child thread among environmentalism with the understanding that the earth’s carrying capacity (which is reducing now due to many serious enviro problems) cannot sustain population growth forever.

It is a difficult issue, and environmentalists sometimes tack on without much thought “the population problem” to the list of things people need to address to save the earth. But “save the earth” for whom? I ask them. Isn’t it for the children? (I have yet to meet one of those anti-human environmentalists that the anti-environmentalists claim they are always running into.) So I tell the environmentalists I know: “It doesn’t make sense to kill children in order to save the world for children.” They respond positively to that message – they are all also interested in making the world better for the children; that is their whole incentive.

((Of course, there are many ways to address “population”; abortion most certainly does NOT have to be part of the “solution” (but perhaps refraining from artificial insemination and techno-baby techniques & just accepting God’s will could be part of the solution). The Church is not against “the rhythm method,” and “abstinance makes the heart grow fonder.” The Church is not against vows of celibacy, and we do need many more priests, nuns, and monks devoting their lives to the spiritual and material uplift of others. There is nothing wrong with being childless in and of itself.))

Sometime back I read an article on Grist (and environmental e-zine) about being “baby-free” as something positive to do for the environment; it proposed putting up signs in the UK of a baby carriage with a slash thru it. I told them that was a terrible and harmful message to be sending children, implying there is something wrong with them. I related this story:

A Catholic friend of mine with twin girls was pregnant with her 3rd child. And people would ask whether she wanted a boy or girl, etc, and she’d give an answer. Then one day someone asked her twin girls whether they wanted a little brother or sister, and they responded, “I don’t care, as long as it isn’t twins.” My friend felt very bad that her twins had overhead her say that, and might now think there was something wrong with them being twins.

I then told the Grist bloggers that if they wanted to refrain from having children for the sake of the life of the world, they should not advertize it or exhibit that sign in public where children would see it.

I know that the Church views marriage as a union that is suppose to produce or be open to children (unless the couple is unable), but there might be some couples who enter into marriage with the idea of having children, and then later decide that they should not have children to participate in some good cause, such as allowing them to do missionary work or some other good work (not for amassing more wealth or having more free time for themselves). I don’t think it would be a sin after marriage deciding not to have children, as long as it was for some good purpose and employed the rhythm method or celibacy (not artificial contraception), but I’m not sure. However, I don’t know of any Catholic couple that has done that, but I would not sneer at or condemn people who remained childless for good cause.

While I agree that “techno babies” are problematic they are not problematic in the sense of overpopulation. The fact is that the earth is nowhere near overpopulation and the number of techno babies dwarf the number of people contracepting. If you think techno babies can lead to overpopulation I wonder what you would think if society let alone Catholics were to have a more holy and open to life culture. I also take issue with the use of phrases such as " I know the church VIEWS marriage…" It isn not the "church’ it is God. And there is no reason one could not be a missionary with children. Not only do I personally know many Catholic families who do this there are many others who do as well not the least of which were the parents of Tim Tebow. And that situation can now give powerful witness and money to not only help spread the Gospel but save lives as well.

I’m trying to understand what you are saying but you have to be careful as many are gunshy because we have heard some rhetoric that can sound similair to what you are trying to say. Lets not pin the “overpopulation” label on those who use illicit means to concieve. It is not that far to then condem those of us who are actively living with the graces of having a large family. I have 3 kids with one on the way and I get “judged” way more than childless couples at Church. By my own mother and family. So lets not get carried away with the idea that some couple wants accessory children and use invitro to get them as some kind of advancement of the “overpopulation problem” myth. because if they are the problem then I must be an even BIGGER problem.

I also take issue with the phrase abortion does not have to be part of the solution. Solution to what? And it should read abortion CANNOT be a part of the solution. period. The same should be said for contraception.

 

[EasterJoy]

That really is a head-scratcher.

Thanks for this, EasterJoy. We’ve both definitely grown in our faith thanks to each other, so already I see God’s work in bringing us together. What I’m hoping for now is to discern some concrete ministries that He’s calling us to as a couple. We’ve both joined our parish’s Green Team, and we’re involved with a monthly meeting of couples who’ve experienced Worldwide Marriage Encounter. So I guess that’s a start

Mother Theresa was reportedly fond of saying: God did not call me to be successful. God called me to be faithful. That is why the Church teaches that married couples must be open to children, but not that it is obligatory for couples to go find some children to raise if the Lord doesn’t send any biological ones. It is the openness to every aspect of your marriage vows that will make your marriage the particular vehicle of your service to God, not just the part where you’re parents together. The possibility of pursuing adoption is a topic to raise with God, not an automatic obligation!

After all, you know, there are religious who are active and go out in the world, and there are religious who never leave their monasteries, some who, even in that very communal state of life, are hermits. Same state in life, and yet vastly different, too. If we are faithful, we can safely entrust the results to Providence, come what may.

There is nowhere to hide from foot-in-mouth assaults. The only good balm is to realize that it can happen to the best of us, and generally does happen to all but the most prudent.

 

[anilorak13ska]

EasterJoy, that’s a good point about not needing to “go find some kids to parent” I definitely had this attitude that adoption should be an automatic consideration, and only recently have I come to realize that it’s not for everyone, and that’s OK!

Lynnvinc and Moore11, I think maybe you missed the part of the thread title that says “support group” (or the paragraph in the OP asking for respectful consideration of childless marrieds), because your comments are in no way conducive to building up infertile couples trying to make peace with what God would have them do in their call to married life without also blessing them with children. Perhaps your discussion could continue elsewhere?

I’ve never heard the connection between environmentalism and non-parents before, and I think this is a generalization like any other. While it’s true that DH and I don’t have children and are indeed involved with enviornmental interests (and yes, drive a Prius), I also went out of my way when we were fostering a little girl to be as “green” as possible. She was in cloth diapers, we used hand-me-down clothes in good repair, etc. I also subscribed to Kiwi, a parenting magazine dedicated to green living with children.

Granted, I have heard the argument that large families are somehow anit-environment, but I think that’s nothing more than scapegoating. It’s easier to say that if you don’t have kids or have one or two than to make the effort to recycle consisently, conserve energy and natural resources consistently, etc.

I really don’t think a discussion of abortion and contraception is appropriate in a thread dedicated to married couples who want but cannot have children. Likewise, the term “techno-babies” is offensive to the contless children who through no fault of their own were conceived using modern methods of fertility treatment. By the way, this also doesn’t belong in this thread, as the point is that some childless married couples remain childless precisely because they do NOT turn to IVF and the like.

 

[Moore11]

EasterJoy, that’s a good point about not needing to “go find some kids to parent” I definitely had this attitude that adoption should be an automatic consideration, and only recently have I come to realize that it’s not for everyone, and that’s OK!

Lynnvinc and Moore11, I think maybe you missed the part of the thread title that says “support group” (or the paragraph in the OP asking for respectful consideration of childless marrieds), because your comments are in no way conducive to building up infertile couples trying to make peace with what God would have them do in their call to married life without also blessing them with children. Perhaps your discussion could continue elsewhere?

I’ve never heard the connection between environmentalism and non-parents before, and I think this is a generalization like any other. While it’s true that DH and I don’t have children and are indeed involved with enviornmental interests (and yes, drive a Prius), I also went out of my way when we were fostering a little girl to be as “green” as possible. She was in cloth diapers, we used hand-me-down clothes in good repair, etc. I also subscribed to Kiwi, a parenting magazine dedicated to green living with children.

Granted, I have heard the argument that large families are somehow anit-environment, but I think that’s nothing more than scapegoating. It’s easier to say that if you don’t have kids or have one or two than to make the effort to recycle consisently, conserve energy and natural resources consistently, etc.

I really don’t think a discussion of abortion and contraception is appropriate in a thread dedicated to married couples who want but cannot have children. Likewise, the term “techno-babies” is offensive to the contless children who through no fault of their own were conceived using modern methods of fertility treatment. By the way, this also doesn’t belong in this thread, as the point is that some childless married couples remain childless precisely because they do NOT turn to IVF and the like.

I misunderstood support group and didnt realize it means only those that say things you want to hear.
It did make me reflect on this issue in a new way so I think that was a good thing.
However I do agree my posts went off topic with the other poster.
Just something about rhetoric that drags me in I guess.
I will bow out and leave you to your thread.

 

[anilorak13ska]

I misunderstood support group and didnt realize it means only those that say things you want to hear.

That’s not at all what I was saying. I think I specified the comments I didn’t think would fall under “support”. Besides that, you beat me to my other comment regarding your first post, which I actually found quite thought-provoking:

"This thread and specifically this post has made me stop and think.
I think when people assume something about a childless couple it comes from a few things.

1. We live in a world where most Catholics contracept.
2. We live in a world where if you have some sort of health problem you advertise it. Either by wearing a ribbon, having a bumper sticker or other some sort of “awareness” billboard.
3. We live in a world where we mistakenly believe that given enough money and effort we can medically solve anything.
4. It is just natural to see week after week a couple getting richer, getting a better house and nicer cars and wonder why they dont have the same money sucking little bundles of joy others have."

I think this is a good break down of why people make the assumptions they do about childless marrieds, though of course it doesn’t give them the right to generalize the way some seem to.

I’ve also started to wonder if I may have only been exposed to certain sub-categories of childless marrieds that seem to opt for more of a woe-is-me mentality? Moore11, I’m not sure from your posts (it could just be me, though) if you are married and childless, and if so, what that experience has been like for you.

Lynnvinc, you do touch on this, and I wonder if you think there’s a different attitude coming from different generations? I know a lot of changes have taken place over the years regarding adoption eligibility criteria as well as openness in adoption, so I wonder if the presence of celebrity adoptions in the media has made adoption sort of more of an expectation or assumption for those unable to have kids, whereas before it was not something one talked about?

 

[anilorak13ska]

I guess I made an assumption I shouldn’t have in starting this thread, and I apologize for that. I was hoping that if you find yourself in this category of married but childless, in your first post you’d provide a little intro so as to situate yourself for the rest of us, as some of you have done. Otherwise, it’s a bit tricky to figure out whether someone could be asked for some feedback based on some shared experiences.

Although, as I mentioned, I think there doesn’t seem to be much of a sense of group identity here for infertile or childless marrieds. I’m not saying this is good or bad, just different from what I’m used to and was expecting. If no one but me finds that they need a supportive environment to gripe and deal with life as a childless married Catholic, then I may need to go back to the drawing board on that, and that’s fine.

 

[Moore11]

Moore11, I’m not sure from your posts (it could just be me, though) if you are married and childless, and if so, what that experience has been like for you.

From post # 10

I have 3 kids with one on the way and I get “judged” way more than childless couples at Church. By my own mother and family.

Now again, I did not understand that this thread was specifically for those who cannot conceive. If there was a Cancer support thread I think anyone could comment as it touches those who do not have cancer. Same here. I dont think I need to be childless to add to the conversation but rather just point out that I am glad there is a place where the exception is the norm in regaurds to childless couples. I know infertility can be extremely painful for those involved and I wish to express my prayers and thoughts to those who are hurting. Perhaps this is not the place to do so but it seems odd that it would be a public subject on a public board excluding others.

As for what the experience means to me: Well I must admit that I fall for the stereotypes of non child couples. In fact many couples having trouble conceiving in my own family contracepted since early teen years and then in their 30s they wonder why they have trouble getting their one trophy child. My family is not Catholic and they are very materialistic and shallow. So, yes, it shapes my view in a way that may not be accurate for many.
Which is why I posted here in the first place. This thread is an education for those like me who have some preconceived notions about childless couples. I would think that would be a good thing!

 

[anilorak13ska]

From post # 10

Now again, I did not understand that this thread was specifically for those who cannot conceive. If there was a Cancer support thread I think anyone could comment as it touches those who do not have cancer. Same here. I dont think I need to be childless to add to the conversation but rather just point out that I am glad there is a place where the exception is the norm in regaurds to childless couples. I know infertility can be extremely painful for those involved and I wish to express my prayers and thoughts to those who are hurting. Perhaps this is not the place to do so but it seems odd that it would be a public subject on a public board excluding others.

As for what the experience means to me: Well I must admit that I fall for the stereotypes of non child couples. In fact many couples having trouble conceiving in my own family contracepted since early teen years and then in their 30s they wonder why they have trouble getting their one trophy child. My family is not Catholic and they are very materialistic and shallow. So, yes, it shapes my view in a way that may not be accurate for many.
Which is why I posted here in the first place. This thread is an education for those like me who have some preconceived notions about childless couples. I would think that would be a good thing!

Thanks for the reminder about your kids, I was trying to reply in a timely manner during breaks from work, and clearly at the expense of thoroughness. I understand that this is a public forum in as much as anyone registered has access, but I don’t understand why it’s strange that a subgroup of people would have a safe place to call their own within that forum. No one is excluded, as long as the comments are on topic and sensitive to infertility and childlessness.

Maybe forums.catholic-questions.org is not the right place for what I’ve been looking for, though I’m at a loss for what may be. There’s a forum especially for infertility that is not religion-specific, where I’ve been active for years, but where I certainly find it problematic when discussing options that are not in line with the RCC. There’s also a wonderful forum for Christian women dealing with infertility, but again, I’m finding suspicion from the predominantly Protestant posters who don’t understand why, for instance, I would thank Mary for her intercession. I assumed there must be other Catholics like me, unable to find a perfect fit, and I thought I’d try to provide that here.

But it would appear that a) most Catholics have a much more positive approach to their “lot in life” dealing with IF, and b) I am much too sensitive to hear the everyday comments that get so very old from fertile folks who can’t relate to why I may not be thrilled to read yet another pregnancy announcement or attend a baby shower. (I’m not at all referring to you or anyone in particular here, just speaking in general of the sort of talk many infertile women (but apparently not Catholic ones) seek to find a haven from.)

So I apologize if my expectations were out of whack. I was hoping not to have to compartmentalize my being Catholic with my struggling with infertility, but it looks like I have no choice. This is no one’s fault, though. I’m just saying what’s on my heart. I guess the blessing in disguise here is that I am forced to focus all of my seeking for spiritual support and understanding towards the Lord, and Mary.

Sorry, Moore11, if my misguided assumptions in any way caused any hurt feelings on your part.

 

[EasterJoy]

I guess I made an assumption I shouldn’t have in starting this thread, and I apologize for that. I was hoping that if you find yourself in this category of married but childless, in your first post you’d provide a little intro so as to situate yourself for the rest of us, as some of you have done. Otherwise, it’s a bit tricky to figure out whether someone could be asked for some feedback based on some shared experiences.

Although, as I mentioned, I think there doesn’t seem to be much of a sense of group identity here for infertile or childless marrieds. I’m not saying this is good or bad, just different from what I’m used to and was expecting. If no one but me finds that they need a supportive environment to gripe and deal with life as a childless married Catholic, then I may need to go back to the drawing board on that, and that’s fine.

The great problem I see is that prior to artificial birth control, when a couple did not have children, it was assumed it was because they could not. Now it is assumed that if children are wanted, children will be forthcoming! On that account, there is a new burden that childless couples have to cope with:

a) Are you sure you’re not using contraception?
b) Oh, don’t worry, whatever your body isn’t doing, they can fix that now
c) Sometimes stress can interfere with fertility, sometimes psychological issues can interfere with fertility, sometimes it is a lifestyle choice that is the problem, so therefore if you haven’t had any kids, it’s probably something you’re doing (which is just another way of saying "whether or not you know it, it is your fault and you can change it or at least you could have if you had your head on straight).

In the old days, there was the “oh, you can always adopt” misconception, but the rest of the list is new and additional. Even if you could adopt, there was sympathy that of course you had also wanted biological children and could not have them. Now, not so much.

Life is easier for those who are contracepting and don’t want children, because they have plenty of cheerleaders. For those who both have fertility problems and who observe moral restrictions on what treatments for infertility they can use, it is an entirely different story. (And let’s face it: even those who break down and try the impermissible avenues hardly have a guarantee of having the child they so much want.)

 

[UpUpAndAway]

UpUpandAway, what you describe sounds like the idyllic atmosphere all of us should have at our parishes. I wonder if part of it too is your positive attitude.

I agree that I’m quite blessed. This is the most amazing parish I’ve ever belonged to.

On the other hand, I doubt my attitude has anything to do with it, though I thank you for suggesting it might After all, no matter how I manage my cross, other people could still pry, assume the worst, criticize…I’m just very fortunate they don’t.

I guess I didn’t include everything I should’ve in the OP… DH and I have been trying to start a support group at our parish for childless couples. We ran an ad in our bulletin for a month, but no takers. We’re going to run it again in the fall, but with a specific date and time for a meeting, in case someone wants to just drop in. (That’s what I’d rather do.)

I see! Well, you beat me to it, then.

If you still have no takers at your parish in the fall, you might wish to consider extending the invitation to neighboring parishes, or all the parishes in your deanery, or even to the entire diocese (depending upon the size of your diocese - mine covers 883 mi² [2288 km²] and takes over two hours to drive from end to end, so it would be impractical here). Maybe this is something that would be of most benefit if offered in a wider geographic scope.

A Green Team refers to a group of us working together to figure out how we as a faith community can implement changes to be better stewards of the Earth and resources entrusted to us by God.

Okay, thanks for clarifying. I’m sure we don’t have anything like that.

Childless & married 43 years. When people ask whether we have children, I’ve learned to say, “we were not blessed with children.” When they press further about what the problem is, I simply say “we are unable to have children.”

It amazes me that other people think it’s their business to know why anyone does or doesn’t have children. I have never asked anyone about their childbearing situation because it’s just none of my affair. I would be equally annoyed if I had a lot of kids and people asked silly questions like, “You know how that happens, don’t you?”

I do commend you on your patience with these questions. Not sure I would be so kind with someone who insists - I’m apt to say something like, “None of your [colorful adjective] business.” :blushing: As it is, on the rare occasion I get asked, “When are you going to have kids?” I simply respond, “When God decides to bless me with them.” That has never failed to stop the exchange, even among non-believers.

Tho we did think about adopting some 40 years ago, we were informed by others that we’d never be able to, being a mixed marriage (my husband is from India – he was the Catholic and I the convert – and I’m anglo). We also looked into international adoption but never found any good info on it. This was well before the internet. And there were other considerations…

We are also a mixed marriage, both in ethnicity and in religion. Thankfully this is not an obstacle to adoption where we live, but our age is. France legally caps adoptive parents at 45 and we are close to that limit. For various reasons we are not ready to consider adoption at this point, but we realize the door is closing on us.

Now in the twilight of our lives, I am happy to be doing environmental things to help make the world better for the children; it’s sort of like we are giving life to the children. I’ve found over the years that many people with children are adament anti-environmentalists (and a recent study backs that up, finding that people with children were somewhat less likely to accept there were environmental problems, like global warming). Another study found that GenerationXers (the ones who would have minor children now) are the least concerned about the environment and global warming. I think it might be bec they cannot imagine a worse, less viable world for their children and progeny, and also cannot stomach the idea that they themselves are contributing to something that will be harming their children.

So that leaves us people without children – childless couples, the “empty-nest” elders, priests, nuns, monks, and the Holy Father – to do what we can to save the earth for the children and help keep it a viable place. A labor of love.

Our earlier grief over not being able to have children has diminished over the decades, though my husband still has pangs now and then. We are kept busy doing what we can for our nieces and nephews and their children, and for all the children of the world.

I am so happy you’ve found your place in the world as a childless couple. This goes back to what I said earlier…if The Husband and I are not to be parents, it’s due to God having other missions for us. I accept that, and I’m really not torn up about it. The Husband has more trouble with the idea that he’ll never have a son or daughter than I do, but he’s coming around.

Mother Theresa was reportedly fond of saying: God did not call me to be successful. God called me to be faithful. That is why the Church teaches that married couples must be open to children, but not that it is obligatory for couples to go find some children to raise if the Lord doesn’t send any biological ones. It is the openness to every aspect of your marriage vows that will make your marriage the particular vehicle of your service to God, not just the part where you’re parents together. The possibility of pursuing adoption is a topic to raise with God, not an automatic obligation!

After all, you know, there are religious who are active and go out in the world, and there are religious who never leave their monasteries, some who, even in that very communal state of life, are hermits. Same state in life, and yet vastly different, too. If we are faithful, we can safely entrust the results to Providence, come what may.

This is extremely well put, and something all those who press childless couples to explain their lack of children would do well to keep in mind. No one is owed a child. Children are not a right, they are a gift. If God chooses not to give this gift to a couple, I firmly believe He will give them others. It’s up to The Husband and me to recognize what God gives us as a gift, not demand He give us what we want.

There is nowhere to hide from foot-in-mouth assaults. The only good balm is to realize that it can happen to the best of us, and generally does happen to all but the most prudent.

I don’t actually think most people who ask these questions and push for info that’s none of their business intend to be hurtful. In my experience, they mean well but they just aren’t aware of how hurtful being asked about it is.

I’ve had far more problems with secular friends and acquaintances, because they assume we are childless by choice (i.e. contracepting). How they come to the conclusion that it’s their duty to question our alleged choice is beyond my ability to fathom.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’ve had far more problems with secular friends and acquaintances, because they assume we are childless by choice (i.e. contracepting). How they come to the conclusion that it’s their duty to question our alleged choice is beyond my ability to fathom.

I suppose it is at least a compliment to think that your friends would think it a shame you are childless by choice, but those are still waters to stay far out of. The targets of such comments will reasonably either feel hurt because life is not as they want it, or resent it because you think you are an expert on what they ought to want, or even both! Who is going to welcome that kind of comment?

Even among couples using contraception, there are some who are childless or who have limited their family size to the extent that they have by the veto power of only one of the pair. Until you are answering someone who makes a statement in violation of moral law, it is a good subject to stay away from in favor of minding your own business, because there is are many souls made sensitive when it comes to this topic.