Married catholic priests

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I attend a church that has a married priest.A lot of peolpe like him.Then there’s some that think a married priest is wrong.I think it alright for a priest to be married.It might stop the priest shortage.

Asexually
 
The Vatican should allow priests to marry and Nuns to marry as well.
 
Well, technically there is nothing wrong with married priests. The Eastern side of the Catholic Church allows married priests. The Latin rite does not generally (There are exceptions as you noted). Mainly for prudential reasons I think. The Church could change its discipline regarding it but I don’t see that happening in the near future.
 
Raising a family inside a cloister does not sound like a feasible idea.
 
Not to mention the fact that it’s not much of a cloister with husbands.
 
Nuns are a different story I think. Since they are under the umbrella of monasticism, that would not do really. Monasticism as a rule allows for people who are married to enter into the community and take the vows of chastity and obedience. But that means no sexual activity.

Monasticism as a rule does not generally allow for sex. That’s the whole point of entering a monastery or a convent.

Priesthood on the other hand is a different story. They are not under the umbrella of monasticism.
 
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Some folks just have a really hard time trying to wrap their head around the idea that there are people willing to give up earthly marriage in anticipation for what is to come.
 
Some people have that problem with pleasure in general.
 
Eastern churches and Protestant have married clergy. They have families and make it work.l
 
Bill2 said:
Eastern churches and Protestant have married clergy. They have families and make it work.l
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We have had numerous discussions regarding this topic on these forums. The Catholic Church does have married priests and does allow married men to become priests in the Eastern Catholic Rites. The Latin Church typically doesn’t allow it for a number of reasons.

There’s really no comparison between the requirements of a Roman Catholic Priest vs Eastern Catholic/Orthodox priests or protestant ministers.

Today, allowing for a married priesthood would be VERY, VERY difficult and very painful. There are a number of married priests in the Latin Church who are totally AGAINST making married priests a common thing. The main reason is become the Church has been built upon a celibate priesthood for so long, changing would cause logistical & financial nightmares for decades (if not more).
  1. Latin Church (aka Roman Catholic) Parishes are typically much larger than Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Parishes.
  2. Married priests are historically not supposed to have sex on a day they celebrate mass. For Eastern Churches, this really isn’t an issue because most Eastern parishes don’t have daily mass. But Roman Catholic Churches have had daily mass for centuries.
  3. Because Roman Catholic parishes tend to be larger than Eastern parishes, Roman parishes tend to have multiple priests per parish. If priests get married, and a parish has 2 or more priests, where do the married priests live with their families?
  4. Large Protestant parishes pay their pastors a good salary. Large Episcopalian parishes can pay their pastor a six figure salary. Catholic priests & bishops typically don’t make anywhere near that. Is everyone ready to start donating 3 or 4 times more than they currently are donating to support their married priest(s)? Married men need to support their families, a married Catholic priest does not make enough money to support a family.
  5. Married priests like to send their kids to Catholic School, which would require more resources from the parish to send the kids to Catholic school… Plus, Married Catholic priests typically have 5+ kids.
(cont)
 
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(cont)
  1. Married priests can NEVER go away with their family for Christmas or Easter. For example, if a priest’s in-laws or parents live in another state, he can never fly their for Christmas or Easter because he is needed at his parish for Christmas and Easter.
  2. Unlike Protestant preachers and Eastern Priests, Roman Catholic Priests work 7 day a week and sometimes have jobs outside the parish for the Diocese, etc.
  3. No ordained priest is allowed to get married. A priests must be married before he becomes a Deacon. This is true in the Catholic Church and all of the Orthodox Churches. Which means, a he must be married either before he enters the Seminary or get married in the Seminary. Seminary life is not like college or grad school. Their schedules are FULL all day long. If Seminarians are married, then that means the dorms will need to be much larger to support every seminarian and his wife & any kids they have. Plus, it would be VERY difficult for a Seminarian to raise little kids and be a seminarian at the same time.
In truth… what will happen here is that you would wind up with only older Diocesan seminarians and older Diocesan priests. The seminary program would have to be 100% changed and married Diocesan priests would be like Perm Deacons – part time clergy or your youngest priests would be in their 50s.

So allowing married men to become priests will actually cause more problems than it will solve.

FINALLY - the ONLY situation I see where married Roman Catholic men could potentially become priests without causing a logistical nightmare is allowing select Perm Deacons who have retired from their secular jobs to become ordained as “volunteer” priests. They would have the same arrangement with the Church as they did as Perm Deacons, but would be priests instead.

God bless
 
Your third paragraph is a red herring. I have heard comments from bishops and Cardinals indicating that they are against doing what you suggest - that the priesthood be switched from a celibate one to a married one. However, in all the years I have heard any conversations concerning ordaining married men (and this goes back to when I was in college seminary in 1964 - 1966) I have never heard anyone propose any such switch.

What I have heard is the suggestion, which the Church on a limited basis has been doing - ordaining married men. and the suggestion that it be expended somewhat to include cradle Catholic men is not suggesting any such switch.

There are a few married priests who are against it; and that proves absolutely nothing. There were a significant number of priests, bishops and Cardinals who were against ordaining married men to the deaconate, the Church did so anyway, and more and more vocations come in for that.

Paragraph 1 - so with larger parishes, another priest to assist will help distribute the load

Paragraph 2 - there was a long public discussion concerning whether or not this applied to deacons. It doesn’t. Further, there is no reason to assume, with more priests, that the married ones would have as full a schedule of saying daily Mass.

Paragraph 3 - there are 25,757 diocesan priests; however only 63% are active in ministry (the others being retired), or @ 16,267. There are, however, 17,156 parishes (figures from CARA as of 2017). Your statement does not reflect the facts; there are some parishes which have more than one priest; there are also 3,552 without any priest.

paragraph 4 - And many, if not the majority of deacons may be serving with little or no pay; or certainly not a good salary. Married priests could be those employed during the week, and serving on the weekend, and perhaps even saying an occasional weekday Mass at 6 or 6:30 a.m.

Given that most parishes out here in the West have no school, that is a non issue. and adding one or two children in any given grade isn’t going to bankrupt any school.

(cont.)
 
otjm said:
paragraph 4 - And many, if not the majority of deacons may be serving with little or no pay; or certainly not a good salary. Married priests could be those employed during the week, and serving on the weekend, and perhaps even saying an occasional weekday Mass at 6 or 6:30 a.m.
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Deacons have a full time job outside of the Church. They are volunteers. If you suggest that married priests be like the Deacons, that’s what I suggest too. HOWEVER, my position is that we should only allow select older Deacons to become priests so we don’t risk everyone deciding to get married first, get a career and then later becoming priests.

We would want to make sure that celibate priests remains the norm, and that married priests remains the exception.
Given that most parishes out here in the West have no school, that is a non issue. and adding one or two children in any given grade isn’t going to bankrupt any school.
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The point is, its a cost that needs to be considered, esp when it comes to Catholic high school, as most dioceses have far fewer diocesan high schools so there would be more children of priest in the diocesan high schools. And if the parish doesn’t have a school, it become more of an issue because a priest is still going to want to send his kids to Catholic school.
 
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Paragraph 6 - this is not any reason for not ordaining some married men. many people cannot go away on Christmas or Easter; and some (such as deployed military and those working in a foreign country) have the same issue. Non issue.

paragraph 7 - I have never known any priest (and I have known probably 50 or 60 to some personal extent) who do not have a day off each week - and I have known of this for 72 years.

paragraph 8 - that is not an issue except you choose to make it one. No family is going to live in any dorm, and there is no mandated requirement that the schedule would have to be full all day long. And it is no different being a seminarian with kids than being in grad school with kids - people have been doing that for longer than I have been alive.

a request has ben made by bishops in Brazil, which has such a shortage of priests combined with croups of Catholics spread over a huge area that those Catholics only see a priest once or maybe twice a year. They have petitioned the Pope to allow married men to be ordained.

I can’t speak for other dioceses, but married men who are ordained to the deaconate go through a 5 year period, and each year (plus the beginning) the wives go through a thorough winnowing process to determine if they really are both accepting and backing their husband’s choice. The Wife as a whole lot to say about him being ordained. I would expect no less with anyone possible being ordained priest.

The Church has had a history of ordained priests who had less than a full ministry running a parish. it is certainly possible and likely that if married Catholic men were to be ordained, they would be priests, but not running a parish; they would be available to assist the pastor just as some parishes now have a visiting priest. The visiting priests are not in the parish full time - so a precedent already exists for such with a married man.
 
otjm said:
paragraph 8 - that is not an issue except you choose to make it one. No family is going to live in any dorm, and there is no mandated requirement that the schedule would have to be full all day long. And it is no different being a seminarian with kids than being in grad school with kids - people have been doing that for longer than I have been alive.

a request has ben made by bishops in Brazil, which has such a shortage of priests combined with croups of Catholics spread over a huge area that those Catholics only see a priest once or maybe twice a year. They have petitioned the Pope to allow married men to be ordained.

I can’t speak for other dioceses, but married men who are ordained to the deaconate go through a 5 year period, and each year (plus the beginning) the wives go through a thorough winnowing process to determine if they really are both accepting and backing their husband’s choice. The Wife as a whole lot to say about him being ordained. I would expect no less with anyone possible being ordained priest.

The Church has had a history of ordained priests who had less than a full ministry running a parish. it is certainly possible and likely that if married Catholic men were to be ordained, they would be priests, but not running a parish; they would be available to assist the pastor just as some parishes now have a visiting priest. The visiting priests are not in the parish full time - so a precedent already exists for such with a married man.
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Ask any priest, Perm Deacons do not receive anywhere near the same training as priests.

Besides Spiritual Formation, Priests (who went to seminary straight out of high school) receive a Bachelors in Philosophy, a Masters in Philosophy & Masters in Divinity before getting ordained as a priest. If they go to the Seminary after receiving a Bachelors, they spend two years taking Theology & Philosophy at the undergrad level and then receive a Masters in Philosophy & Masters in Divinity.

Some priests (before or after ordination) also get a Masters in Theology and/or they go away for advanced training for a few years to receive a J.D.C., Ph.D., S.T.B., S.T.L., S.T.D., etc.

A Perm Deacon spends 5-7 years (it’s 7 years here) to just POTENTIALLY earn on Master’s in Theology.

The training is simply NOT the same. Plus, seminary is NOT like graduate school. In seminary, they have additional training beyond their academic training.

Again: I’m not against allowing well qualified Perm Deacons with years of on the job training to become priests later in ministry. But I do think it’s a bad idea to allow married cradle Catholics to become priests without a lengthy tenure as a Deacon first.

If we allow a relativity easy way for married men to become Diocesan priests, the MAJORITY will become married priests. Eventually, the Latin Church would become like the Eastern Catholic parishes where most of the Secular Priests are married and where almost all of the celibate priests would be Religious.

Unlike the Eastern Churches, a married clergy would be a major financial issue for us Latins and will cause several generations worth of head aches.
 
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otjm said:
paragraph 8 - that is not an issue except you choose to make it one. No family is going to live in any dorm, and there is no mandated requirement that the schedule would have to be full all day long. And it is no different being a seminarian with kids than being in grad school with kids - people have been doing that for longer than I have been alive.
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Here’s another reason why this wouldn’t be the same as grad school. Often, when a married person selects a grad school where they have to move away, it’s because that grad school degree is going to financially help their family and the spouse is willing to quit her job.

But with a married seminarian, the wife is going to have to be money maker. Most dioceses don’t have a seminary and most seminarians don’t live close to their seminary. So the wife would have either sacrifice her job and expect to move again at least once, if not twice.

Or the wife would need to say home (so she wouldn’t hurt her career) and live apart from her husband.

Both scenarios place the vocation of the priesthood coming in direct conflict with the vocation of matrimony.

Point is: for a married cradle Catholic to become a priest would require a major revamp of the seminary system.

The only way I see it working, is to use the Perm Deacon system, but then the future priest is a Deacon for several years first, and only becomes a priests have several years of “on the job training” that make up for what he missed in the traditional seminary (and if he’s worthy).

God bless
 
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As someone once said “if the solution to the priest shortage were married priests, Catholics would be chasing down Orthodox, Protestant, Jewish and Muslim clergy”.

It’s not the magical solution everyone thinks it is.
 
You are pretty good at red herrings; I didn’t say they both studied the same things or for the same length of time. They get different Masters in theology. And not all seminarians get a Masters in Philosophy.

A few priests get a degree in Canon law; so do some laity.

And as to the additional training priests get, that is part of why they have full days, as you noted. However, getting a Masters in Divinity is not all that different from getting a Master is just about anything else. It inolves study, classes, likely a thesis or equivalent, and often practicums. I have been in seminary (only college, but the theology students were in the next building), and have had classmates and relatives go through it and be ordained.

None of that would prevent a married Catholic man to go through likewise. And in fact, there are laity who receive their Masters from the same seminary staff.

You have little experience with the matter, and I seriously doubt, particularly for what I said in my prior post, that the majority of priests would come from married ranks rather than celibate ranks. That is pure and unadulterated speculation. Yes, I know that a Cardinal who is against ordaining married men said so; and he likewise is making pure speculation.

Not all Protestant ministers who convert become priests. Further, as I said, there is a wife, and I have more than just an inkling that plenty of married wives would not want their husbands to become priests. That, in itself would be a major disqualifier. And certainly even now, not all men who enter seminary are ordained. Not all married men who would like to become a deacon do so; and wives can and do wash them out. I happen to hav one of them in my parish; and she washed him out in the 5th year.

There is no reason at all to presume it would cause any headcahes to the Church, let alone “several generations”. And it need not be a financial issue - as I noted, the Church needs pastors; it also needs men who could administer the sacraments, but would not become a pastor. Just because we have a certain model now does not mean there cannot be additional mode;s; simply adding deacons was an additional model we did not have when I was young.

And Religious in the US require that any person joining have a vocation to that religious community; the issue of ordaining priests after is up to the abbot or equivalent. And the religious communities which used to do parish work have been withdrawing from parish work, if you have not noticed.

When I was in high school, a number of diocesan priests taught at Catholic high schools full time; they resided in the parish rectory (long since gone) and assisted with sacraments. They did not have administrative duties. So we already have a recent model where the priest had a full time job, so I am not blowing smoke with my comments.

(cont.)
 
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