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TheLittleLady
Guest
Once again, this is in no way Catholic teaching. We are not required nor encouraged to take another’s sins upon ourselves.
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
I think I understand what you’re trying to say. I believe you’re talking about accompanying a spouse through difficulties. If that’s what you mean, then that gives me a different impression than I would get from the word acceptance.
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Ammi
Guest
If you forgive, then that’s what you are doing.Ammi:
Once again, this is in no way Catholic teaching. We are not required nor encouraged to take another’s sins upon ourselves.
I agree. I think most people entertain “what if” thoughts at some point. At the end of the day though, if you actually married your “what if” person, you’d probably have the same thoughts about some other “what if”. Thing is though, you have no guarantee the “what if” person would have been interested in a relationship or marriage to you.
At the end of the day the person you married is the person you need to concern yourself with.
It’s probably quite normal to have these thoughts from time to time. But if it’s something very invasive then maybe you should seek counselling for it.
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Mhkc
Guest
Wow. Very hard. I understand. depressing to me. Very depressing. Suffering with Christ in hope, is almost a fantasy too? Going for “guy” is fantasy…both feel eerily alike…both Christ and guy offer greener grass…?
Hard. No easy way either way. Sometimes I just keep commandments like a military cannon fodder pup…
Hard. No easy way either way. Sometimes I just keep commandments like a military cannon fodder pup…
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heidi_storage
Guest
Not at all alike. The hope Christ offers us is no fantasy. See Hebrews 6:13-20. I also don’t know where you get this “greener grass” idea–the New Testament is full of promises that during this life, there will be trials and sufferings; quite different from a fantasy man! Yes, someday every tear will be wiped away and those who love the Lord know eternal joy, but this isn’t something our neighbor experiences that gives us envy–it is a sure and certain promise.
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Rozellelily
Guest
I think what @Ammi is referring to is when a spouse has done an action to seriously hurt the other and then the other spouse has a reaction of anger feelings.
I don’t think these anger feeling are necessary a sin though, so it’s more a case of taking personal responsibility imo.
Unless I have totally misread this
.
I don’t think these anger feeling are necessary a sin though, so it’s more a case of taking personal responsibility imo.
Unless I have totally misread this
.
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Ammi
Guest
What I’m saying is that to reconcile bitterness in a relationship, we must receive it in forgiveness. We are hurt and damaged by bitterness, and the way to heal and fight the cycle of bitterness is forgiveness. Recognizing our own bitterness should help us to show kindness to our spouse.I think what @Ammi is referring to is when a spouse has done an action to seriously hurt the other and then the other spouse has a reaction of anger feelings.
I don’t think these anger feeling are necessary a sin though, so it’s more a case of taking personal responsibility imo.
Unless I have totally misread this
If the bitterness in our spouse is not being acknowledged by them, then there is discord and separation until recognition is made and then steps towards true reconciliation.
The relationship between spouses is more profound than between two Christians. We give ourselves to one another and receive one another wholly, not partially.
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Rozellelily
Guest
@ImmaculateLove
I am very sorry that you are feeling this way.
Even if hypothetically, you and your husband were very immature, young and incompatible, I think the least you can do is to get yourself in best place emotionally and then take it from there.
You mentioned your relationship involving Guy comforting you from family drama, but you have never known a relationship with Guy when there was no drama/issues in your life and you were in a good place emotionally.
How do you know a relationship with Guy would look the same under these circumstances (if that makes sense)?
Ie: if you were now married to Guy and there was no family issues or bullying etc for him to need to support you, and it was just you and him, and “mundane everyday life” (which involves compromises and communication etc), are you completely certain that you would not be fighting with him like are with husband?
I think it would be best to just focus on your emotional health for now. Become in a better place with this and then maybe will see husband and Guy issue in a different light/perspective.
What were the quality that attracted you to your husband initially?
I am very sorry that you are feeling this way.
Even if hypothetically, you and your husband were very immature, young and incompatible, I think the least you can do is to get yourself in best place emotionally and then take it from there.
You mentioned your relationship involving Guy comforting you from family drama, but you have never known a relationship with Guy when there was no drama/issues in your life and you were in a good place emotionally.
How do you know a relationship with Guy would look the same under these circumstances (if that makes sense)?
Ie: if you were now married to Guy and there was no family issues or bullying etc for him to need to support you, and it was just you and him, and “mundane everyday life” (which involves compromises and communication etc), are you completely certain that you would not be fighting with him like are with husband?
I think it would be best to just focus on your emotional health for now. Become in a better place with this and then maybe will see husband and Guy issue in a different light/perspective.
What were the quality that attracted you to your husband initially?
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Rozellelily
Guest
Thanks for clarifying.
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Ammi
Guest
Thanks for hearing me out. The basis of what I’m saying is to love, not to focus on blame.
When we truly love, then we are truly unharmed by hurtful actions of our spouse. It hurts, but love from above strengthens and casts out bitterness.
Lack of admonishment is not to be excused on the premise of “forgiveness” either. Admonishment is how love communicates towards someone we love who is projecting something bitter.
So it’s the huge challenge of taking sin on ourselves out of love in forgiveness, and confronting sin without letting the sin cause us bitterness.
When we truly love, then we are truly unharmed by hurtful actions of our spouse. It hurts, but love from above strengthens and casts out bitterness.
Lack of admonishment is not to be excused on the premise of “forgiveness” either. Admonishment is how love communicates towards someone we love who is projecting something bitter.
So it’s the huge challenge of taking sin on ourselves out of love in forgiveness, and confronting sin without letting the sin cause us bitterness.
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Ammi
Guest
Yes, Scripture tells us many times that suffering is actually necessary to follow Jesus. The instinct to want “happiness” by turning away from suffering, on the premise that “we dont deserve this” or “this should not be my cross” is our human nature and even concupiscence.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Anger is not a sin. Bitterness is a sin. Remember where Scripture says to “be angry and sin not”? Bitterness is one of the sins that we can commit when we are angry.
Seems to me that @Ammi has a unique manner of speech, perhaps more poetic than I encounter in most discussions? Will mute now.
Seems to me that @Ammi has a unique manner of speech, perhaps more poetic than I encounter in most discussions? Will mute now.
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Ammi
Guest
I didnt use the term anger at all. And I never said “bitterness” wasnt a sin.
If a spouse is determined to blame, in order to judge, then reconciliation is abandoned and what is the point?
If a spouse is determined to blame, in order to judge, then reconciliation is abandoned and what is the point?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
“Taking another’s sin on oneself” is generally not understood to be the same thing as forgiveness. Taking another’s sin on oneself suggests that the taker is somehow taking personal responsibility for the sin of the sinner. This is the wrong message to send to an abused spouse; the abused spouse is likely to feel personal responsibility anyway for causing the abuser’s behavior (abusers encourage this type of thinking as a control mechanism), which is both wrong and unhelpful thinking, and we shouldn’t encourage it.
I agree that Ammi is using some unusual forms of expression here and I will mute also as I think arguing over this will only result in more confusion.
I agree that Ammi is using some unusual forms of expression here and I will mute also as I think arguing over this will only result in more confusion.
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Ammi
Guest
So when Jesus took the sins of the world on Himself, He was taking responsibility for them?
No, He was forgiving and breaking the cycle.
If a spouse does not want to reconcile, then they must remain single, and not do what they judge the other spouse for.
No, He was forgiving and breaking the cycle.
If a spouse does not want to reconcile, then they must remain single, and not do what they judge the other spouse for.
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Legend
Guest
Putting everything else aside, I wonder about this ‘Guy’. That you fell in love with him, or thought you did, at age 12, is not a good sign. He may be emotionally immature at best, a pedophile at worst. That he would, even a little, encourage your feelings, and even have them, for a Young teen, is a very red flag!
Stay away from him. Keep your daughter away from him. Yes, there may be serious problems in your marriage. But don’t look to Guy as a cure!
You don’t need this. Work on your marriage without involving "Guy’. It will only make things worse. You are having unhealthy fantasies, which may Hurt your daughter, as well as yourself. And, if you find that you do have marriage problems, work on them with your priest, a counselor, but not this ‘Guy’. Please get help!
Stay away from him. Keep your daughter away from him. Yes, there may be serious problems in your marriage. But don’t look to Guy as a cure!
You don’t need this. Work on your marriage without involving "Guy’. It will only make things worse. You are having unhealthy fantasies, which may Hurt your daughter, as well as yourself. And, if you find that you do have marriage problems, work on them with your priest, a counselor, but not this ‘Guy’. Please get help!
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Annie
Guest
Every time you dwell on fantasies of how things things would be better if you were with Guy, you are not working on the current reality of your life.
You are married. Guy is nothing more than a fantasy you use to escape. It’s like you are having an affair, but totally imaginary.
It sounds like both you and your husband have psychological issues that neither of you knows how to handle in yourselves or in each other.
Ideally, each of you would go to a counselor and the two of you would engage in marital counseling as well. That may not be possible, but the two of you could work to attain whatever is as close to that as possible.
The one thing you need to do is to set aside all thoughts of Guy. Each time he enters your mind, pray to God, Mary, and your patron saint or a patron saint of marriage. Pray for your husband as well.
Talk with your husband (when you feel able, but also work on getting there!). Ask him if the current way things are in your family is the way he wants them to be. The two of you can make a vision for your family if you two talk about it. Then commit to doing what is needed and continuing to talk and evaluate your vision as well as how you two are headed there. (In all this, a wise third person’s involvement can be helpful.) The two of you have to work together to creat your family: this is not like dating, which seems to be more about having fun and pleasing each other.
Hard work? Yes. Scary vulnerability? Yes. But better than a broken marriage and all the pain that entails for each of you.
You are married. Guy is nothing more than a fantasy you use to escape. It’s like you are having an affair, but totally imaginary.
It sounds like both you and your husband have psychological issues that neither of you knows how to handle in yourselves or in each other.
Ideally, each of you would go to a counselor and the two of you would engage in marital counseling as well. That may not be possible, but the two of you could work to attain whatever is as close to that as possible.
The one thing you need to do is to set aside all thoughts of Guy. Each time he enters your mind, pray to God, Mary, and your patron saint or a patron saint of marriage. Pray for your husband as well.
Talk with your husband (when you feel able, but also work on getting there!). Ask him if the current way things are in your family is the way he wants them to be. The two of you can make a vision for your family if you two talk about it. Then commit to doing what is needed and continuing to talk and evaluate your vision as well as how you two are headed there. (In all this, a wise third person’s involvement can be helpful.) The two of you have to work together to creat your family: this is not like dating, which seems to be more about having fun and pleasing each other.
Hard work? Yes. Scary vulnerability? Yes. But better than a broken marriage and all the pain that entails for each of you.
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