Married in God's eyes or not

[TomFlorida]

If two people were married and later divorced, would they still be married in God’s eyes? Would the fact that these two people were married by a notary in a park make a difference in this answer?

 

[tee_eff_em]

With the incomplete information given:

Maybe.

tee

 

[TomFlorida]

Ok… I will be more detailed… If two people got married in a park on by a notary (not by a priest or in a church) many years ago… They are now legally divorced… Does God see the two people as married… or not?

 

[tee_eff_em]

Still not enough information.

• 
  *]Were the two free to marry at the time?
  *]Was marriage by a JP an acceptable form for the couple?
  *]Has one of the parties died in the intervening years?
  *]Plenty of other details, I’m sure
  
  Bottom line: The case would need be investigated by a competent authority (diocesan tribunal) in order to come to an answer.
  
  tee

 

[TomFlorida]

I did not realize this was such a diffcult question…Both were free to marry. Both were fine with the Notary…One wanted to repeat the vows in a church later, but the other did not see the purpose in repeating the vows. No one died… They are now legally divorced…Does God see them as married now?

I guess the simplest questions to ask is

1. Does God see two people as still married even though they are now divorced?
2. Does God see two people as married if they were willingly married by a notary and not a priest in a church?

thanks

 

[kage_ar]

Were either of these people baptized Catholic?

If the answer is YES, then, the tribunal would likely issue a “defect of form” that would mean there was never a valid marriage.

 

[TomFlorida]

One was Baptised Catholic and the other Baptised Lutherian

 

[kage_ar]

One was Baptised Catholic and the other Baptised Lutherian

This would need review by a Priest or the Tribunal, however, in general Catholics cannot validly marry outside of form without dispensation.

 

[TomFlorida]

Thank you

 

[chain]

imho. I do not think we, as humans, can know the mind of God. The Church desires to give praise and glory to God, and to help us with our relationship with God. The Churches position on this issue, is to protect us from severing our relationship with God. If we might be married, it is best to live as if we are married (and be in a relationship with God), rather than live as if we are not (and possibly sever that relationship).

The reverse position is also important to note. Those married outside the church may believe they are validly married - but should live as brothers and sisters until their marriage is validated. Is it worth loosing your relationship with God to do otherwise?

 

[77Nick777]

Hello there,

Could I help you out also? Uhm…From what I learned from Catholic teaching is that:

Marriage is a Sacrament from God. And, when a Priest marries someone, God works through that Priest. If the “marrier” is not a priest, then yes, the marriage is not seen as a real marriage in Catholic Church.
So, the divorce would be a legal divorce but if you ever think about marrying again, I’d actually say - first you could go to confession then ask a priest about marriage. But, that’s a good question. If you got married in the Church, the only way to get married again - would be after an annulment. But, from what I see is that you don’t need an annulment, then.
But, yeah - talking to a priest would be a good thing to do.
(Father Serpa!) on this Website!

May God bless! & Warm Regards,

~Nick

 

[puzzleannie]

If two people were married and later divorced, would they still be married in God’s eyes? Would the fact that these two people were married by a notary in a park make a difference in this answer?

the information is not complete–baptismal status, are they Catholic etc.

But yes, assuming they are otherwise free to marry, enter into marriage with full free will valid consent, and have the capacity to give that consent, they are married, for life, and no earthly authority can dissolve that marriage. Even though a civil divorce may be necessary in order to protect the party’s rights or those of minor children of the marriage, it does not end a valid marriage. Where are you going with your question?

If either party was Catholic at the time of the marriage they were also bound by Church law on marriage, but since you don’t mention it we will assume they were not Catholic, therefore are validly married until proven otherwise. Who witnessed the marriage is irrelevant as long as the civil laws were followed, and any laws binding on either party due to their own religion.

 

[Cluny]

//
2) Does God see two people as married if they were willingly married by a notary and not a priest in a church?//

Where and how they were married (assuming they are not Roman Catholics) has nothing to do with the issue of “validity”, as the Church considers it.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Thank you

Tom
You are discribing an attempted marriage, if the two actually married why would they divorce? There are some reasons for actually married people to divorce as mental illness, abuse, etc. However most divorces are a result of attempted marriages, not real marriages. This is why religious people have such problems with SSA marriages as those cannot be real. At the same time it is critical to understand another man and woman could marry in the park by the ranger and be really married. Their marriage would be considered a Natural Marriage. Turning the Natural Marriage into a Sacramental Marriage involves whether baptism have occured, free to marry, etc…

hope that helps

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

this seems like a classic case of invalid marriage due to lack of form. The Catholic party should marry in front of a Catholic priest or get a dispensation from the Catholic Church (from the Bishop) to marry somewhere else. If the Catholic party failed to comply with this requirement, the marriage is not valid. Tom, you could walk in to the nearest Catholic Church in your area and talk to the priest there. This seems such a simple case in view of the information provided, but you should talk to a Catholic Priest to be sure. He will be able to advise you with a high degree of confidence, even without starting the formal process of determination of validity/nullity by a Catholic Tribunal.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

Hello there,

Could I help you out also? Uhm…From what I learned from Catholic teaching is that:

Marriage is a Sacrament from God. And, when a Priest marries someone, God works through that Priest. If the “marrier” is not a priest, then yes, the marriage is not seen as a real marriage in Catholic Church.
So, the divorce would be a legal divorce but if you ever think about marrying again, I’d actually say - first you could go to confession then ask a priest about marriage. But, that’s a good question. If you got married in the Church, the only way to get married again - would be after an annulment. But, from what I see is that you don’t need an annulment, then.
But, yeah - talking to a priest would be a good thing to do.
(Father Serpa!) on this Website!

May God bless! & Warm Regards,

~Nick

It need not be a priest; deacons are able to preside over a marriage, too.

To the OP:

1. If either party was ever baptized Catholic, he/she would’ve needed a dispensation to marry a non-Catholic AND a dispensation to marry outside of form. If they had these dispensations, it would seem like a valid marriage; if not, it would seem invalid – but I’m not on a marriage tribunal.
2. That they were legally divorced has no impact on whether the marriage was valid. If it was valid, divorce does not change this fact.
3. One does not “get” an annulment; it is a declaration that there was never a marriage to begin with.
4. It would be best to talk to a priest about this.

Peace,
Dante

 

[Texas_Roofer]

imho. … Those married outside the church may believe they are validly married - but should live as brothers and sisters until their marriage is validated. Is it worth loosing your relationship with God to do otherwise?

lets be careful, there a several different situations grouped here. A “valid sacrament” can only occur in the Church, however proper marriages outside the Church can be recognized as a sacrament if the properly married people are or become baptized

Hello there,

Could I help you out also? Uhm…From what I learned from Catholic teaching is that:

Marriage is a Sacrament from God. And, when a Priest marries someone, God works through that Priest. If the “marrier” is not a priest, then yes, the marriage is not seen as a real marriage in Catholic Church.
So, the divorce would be a legal divorce but if you ever think about marrying again, I’d actually say - first you could go to confession then ask a priest about marriage. But, that’s a good question. If you got married in the Church, the only way to get married again - would be after an annulment. But, from what I see is that you don’t need an annulment, then.

But, yeah - talking to a priest would be a good thing to do.
(Father Serpa!) on this Website!

May God bless! & Warm Regards,

~Nick

Since the two claimed to be married they are no longer considered free to marry. If either wants to have a “sacramental marriage” to another a successful annulment would be needed. If they return to each other only baptism and blessings are needed.

hope that helps

 

[ChelleyD]

Let me share my personal story and hope that it answers your question.

I grew up and was baptized in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and my ex-husband was baptized in the Episcopal Church. We were married by a minister in the denomination I grew up in, and were later divorced.

My husband grew up Catholic, so when we decided to get married, we went to talk with our Parish Priest. When I told the priest my background, he said we needed to investigate whether the Church would require I get an annulment to be married in the Church. Because of the circumstances noted above, the Catholic Church deemed my first marriage was sacramental and I needed an annulment.

It seems to me that being married by a Notary in the park would make a difference. Every circumstance is different, however, so I would recommend talking to a priest.

Chelley

 

[Seatuck]

Hello there,

Could I help you out also? Uhm…From what I learned from Catholic teaching is that:

Marriage is a Sacrament from God. And, when a Priest marries someone, God works through that Priest. If the “marrier” is not a priest, then yes, the marriage is not seen as a real marriage in Catholic Church.
So, the divorce would be a legal divorce but if you ever think about marrying again, I’d actually say - first you could go to confession then ask a priest about marriage. But, that’s a good question. If you got married in the Church, the only way to get married again - would be after an annulment. But, from what I see is that you don’t need an annulment, then.
But, yeah - talking to a priest would be a good thing to do.
(Father Serpa!) on this Website!

May God bless! & Warm Regards,

~Nick

Not quite Nick but close. The couple makes the bond. They do not need a “marrier”. The couple consents to each other. But when they are catholic they do need a valid witness and in most cases that is a priest or deacon. Sacraments are “public” and need to be visible to the church. They are also serious and must be entered into with mature reasoning and it is up to the Bishop to set the teaching that governs that. So Catholics by virtue of their baptism which bounds them to church law must follow it for the other sacraments as well.

But yes, your understanding is correct. The Marriage being talked about looks quite likely to be an invald marriage due to lack of form. Paperwork still needs to be filled out though it is easily done.

 

[chain]

The Church does not annul valid sacramental marriages. It investigates failed marriages that appeared to be valid.

A marriage is a sacrament between a man, a woman, and God. As a public sacrament it requires a witness (I do not know if “As God as my witness” works here) - usually the Priest in the Catholic Church (but can be a deacon, or another person duly appointed. It also needs to be in correct form for the people involved. As such, 2 Christians can be married in their Church, w/o a issue. But a Catholic must be either married in the Catholic church or have dispensation to marry outside the Catholic Church. If both parties are not Christian - I do not see how they could ask God to be part of their union (so not sacramental).

I am not sure if 2 Christians being married outside a church could be in the correct form (ie ship captain marriage - I don’t think a park ranger has authority to marry).