Married in Protestant Church

[anamchara]

**It is because your husband is Catholic and both of you married in a Protestant ecclesial community that necessitated the reason for your having your marriage convalidated. **Had both of you been Protestant, there would not have been a hold-up. However, as a Catholic, your husband was bound by the laws of Christ and His Church at the time of your marriage. Even though neither of you had a previous marriage, your marriage was invalid due to defect of form because the nuptials weren’t celebrated according to the guidelines of the Church. This is the same problem that the OP is encountering.

umm benedictgal, that isn’t my question or my confusion. I already know all that considering we went through it you really need to read my posts before preaching. Heavens.

My confusion is why is it taking so long for the OP? I’ve never heard of convalidations taking as long as this man is going through. There shouldn’t be such a hold up.

 

[jmcrae]

umm benedictgal, that isn’t my question or my confusion. I already know all that considering we went through it you really need to read my posts before preaching. Heavens.

My confusion is why is it taking so long for the OP? I’ve never heard of convalidations taking as long as this man is going through. There shouldn’t be such a hold up.

I agree. Once the situation becomes known, the paperwork shouldn’t take any longer than it takes to notify the Bishop that they’re doing a convalidation in the Church. The ceremony itself takes ten minutes; it’s not like they have to dress up or anything. The “party wedding” is in the past - all they need are for a couple of people to come in from the office to be witnesses, get the book and the priest, say the "I do"s, and you’re done.

 

[anamchara]

I agree. Once the situation becomes known, the paperwork shouldn’t take any longer than it takes to notify the Bishop that they’re doing a convalidation in the Church. The ceremony itself takes ten minutes; it’s not like they have to dress up or anything. The “party wedding” is in the past - all they need are for a couple of people to come in from the office to be witnesses, get the book and the priest, say the "I do"s, and you’re done.

Exactly!

There is some paper work to fill out but it’s not a big deal at all, the whole process takes a total of 30mins.

 

[Agent]

Since my marriage is invalid and I am living in a state of sin, should I seperate from my fake-wife and our son and live on my own?

This whole process reminds me of this verse in Luke, "But He said, “Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers.”

I am very confused, growing increasingly sad and dismayed and extremely frustrated at the lack of pastoral care I am receiving.

 

[benedictgal]

Since my marriage is invalid and I am living in a state of sin, should I seperate from my fake-wife and our son and live on my own?

This whole process reminds me of this verse in Luke, "But He said, “Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers.”

I am very confused, growing increasingly sad and dismayed and extremely frustrated at the lack of pastoral care I am receiving.

First of all, throwing scripture at people and taking a sarcastic approach is not going to solve anything. It will only increase whatever bitterness and angst you are already experiencing.

No one is telling you to live on your own or to leave your family. You should, however, refrain from the marital act until this issue is resolved. It is a sacrifice, but, it is necessary for the state of your soul.

You speak of a lack of pastoral care. Have you not approach your diocesan tribunal office? If you believe that your situation is not being handled in the appropriate and expeditious manner, then you need to go up the ladder. You, too, need to take a proactive stance and start moving. To lay all of the blame on the Church and wallow without taking further action isn’t helping things.

 

[Agent]

The marriage tribunal states I must consult with my local pastor.

I was not being sarcastic. I am trying to convey my frustration. I have a toddler and am being told I must travel 100 miles for marriage classes. It is very difficult.

I realize I am to blame for not knowing the Church laws. But, I need help from those in a position to help me. I cannot pastor myself, I cannot counsel myself, etc.

 

[anamchara]

Since my marriage is invalid and I am living in a state of sin, should I seperate from my fake-wife and our son and live on my own?

This whole process reminds me of this verse in Luke, "But He said, “Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers.”

** I am very confused, growing increasingly sad and dismayed and extremely frustrated at the lack of pastoral care I am receiving.**

I don’t blame you at all. I don’t think you are getting good pastoral care because it shouldn’t be this big of a deal and you shouldn’t be feeling this way. Take heart though and try not to focus so much on the invalid part. I am sorry you are going through this. Try to focus more on hope for the future instead of all these rules.

 

[anamchara]

The marriage tribunal states I must consult with my local pastor.

I was not being sarcastic. I am trying to convey my frustration. I have a toddler and am being told I must travel 100 miles for marriage classes. It is very difficult.

I realize I am to blame for not knowing the Church laws. But, I need help from those in a position to help me. I cannot pastor myself, I cannot counsel myself, etc.

You have every right to convey the frustrations and I didn’t get sarcasm from your post but mainly just down about the whole thing. Good scripture btw!

100 miles I’m thinking the local priest if one is available could easily do a few classes with you and your wife. You might want to ask. I would also convey your frustrations with the priest. Maybe you have already done this.

 

[fjonc]

I have a question pertaining to all of this. What if you were married in the Protestant faith outside of the building such as a community hall. You want to get your marriage blessed in the Catholic church a year later as your anullment just came through. Your spouse does not believe anything about the Catholic Church and it would be meaningless to that spouse? That the spouse believes that it is a bunch of hocus pocus with rules. In addition refuses to let any child that you may have to be raised in the Catholic Church, though you do not have any yet. To you, the one that is Catholic, it is very hurtful the way the spouse thinks and feels towards this as it is a big part of who you are and you do not want to compromise your faith as you have already done and trying to correct that. Anyone have any thoughts to this? Sorry if I detracted away from the original post but I thought this might pertain to this if someone else has been or is in this situation.
Agent I will pray for you.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

While personally, I think this rule of the Church not recognizing a otherwise legal marriage by a Protestant Minister as being valid is rather silly, unfortunately it’s true.

mikew,

Other posters have addressed the fact that Protestants have valid marriages within their own churches, so I will not go into that. I can understand why it may seem “silly” that the Catholic Church requires Catholics to marry inside the Church. Two thoughts:

1. This is the simplistic, perhaps imperfect, analogy I have: the Church is a big family, and everyone invites family to his/her wedding, right? So, basically, if a Catholic doesn’t invite the Church to his/her wedding, that is like not inviting one’s family who should be invited!
2. The Catholic Church cannot say what a Protestant wedding service will be like. For instance vows aren’t universal. They could be made up by the bride and groom. Some spouses now even say something like “I will be with you as long as our love lasts.” That’s very different from, “I will love you and honor you all the days of my life.” The couple may/may not have gone through marriage prep, and certainly did not go through Catholic marriage prep. It’s impossible for the Church to determine whether or not the Catholic spouse understands what the Church teaches about marriage and, what’s more, I would guess that in 100% of these cases the Catholic party did not agree to do his/her best to raise the children in the Catholic Church, something that’s required by the Church.

 

[jmcrae]

Since my marriage is invalid and I am living in a state of sin, should I seperate from my fake-wife and our son and live on my own?

No, you need to remain with your wife and care for your child with her. (My godson went through this, too - he and his wife had six kids in the house. In fact, the original reason that they went through the quickie “Vegas” wedding was so that he could legally adopt her kids and help her take care of them.)

This whole process reminds me of this verse in Luke, "But He said, “Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers.”

The difference is that if you follow the rules from the beginning, they aren’t burdensome at all.

It’s just that, in your case (and in the case of my godson as well) the attempt is being made to play by two different sets of rules at the same time - one, the Secular rules, where convenience, speed, and outward appearances are the main focus, and the other, the Church rules, where the focus is on the interior spiritual development, careful preparation, full knowledge of the Sacrament, and full inclusion and consideration of God and His Laws.

I am very confused, growing increasingly sad and dismayed and extremely frustrated at the lack of pastoral care I am receiving.

I sympathize. I agree with a previous poster who said that you might consider going up the ladder and asking the Bishop’s advice in all of this.

 

[Agent]

I have another problem. The Catholic Church says the marriage is invalid because I as a Catholic failed to follow the rules. What does the Catholic Church say to my wife? Does it view my side of the marriage as invalid and her side of the marriage as valid? She did what any good practicing Protestant Christian does. She was counseled before the marriage, and married in her Church. Is her marriage valid and mine invalid or are they both invalid? Does the Church recognize Protestnat marriages? This is precisely what I mean by lack of pastoral care. Look at me wracking my brain and driving myself crazy because I cannot get answers from 3 local priests or the diocsese office. A lot of people have told me this is an easy process but nobody will answer my questions. It seems ridiculous that I have to turn to the internet to help me sift through this problem. If there is such a thing as canon law, it would seem that the law would apply regardless of individual circumstances but this is not the case as I have been told that it depends on the local pastor and what he deems necessary, etc.

 

[jmcrae]

I have another problem. The Catholic Church says the marriage is invalid because I as a Catholic failed to follow the rules. What does the Catholic Church say to my wife? Does it view my side of the marriage as invalid and her side of the marriage as valid?

No. She has to go through this process with you.

She did what any good practicing Protestant Christian does. She was counseled before the marriage, and married in her Church. Is her marriage valid and mine invalid or are they both invalid? Does the Church recognize Protestnat marriages?

Protestant/Protestant marriages are valid, as are non-Christian/non-Christian. All equally-yoked marriages are considered valid.

This is precisely what I mean by lack of pastoral care. Look at me wracking my brain and driving myself crazy because I cannot get answers from 3 local priests or the diocsese office. A lot of people have told me this is an easy process but nobody will answer my questions. It seems ridiculous that I have to turn to the internet to help me sift through this problem. If there is such a thing as canon law, it would seem that the law would apply regardless of individual circumstances but this is not the case as I have been told that it depends on the local pastor and what he deems necessary, etc.

I sympathize totally. It seems very unfair.

 

[mikew262]

Since my marriage is invalid and I am living in a state of sin, should I seperate from my fake-wife and our son and live on my own?

This whole process reminds me of this verse in Luke, "But He said, “Woe to you lawyers as well! For you weigh men down with burdens hard to bear, while you yourselves will not even touch the burdens with one of your fingers.”

I am very confused, growing increasingly sad and dismayed and extremely frustrated at the lack of pastoral care I am receiving.

IMO, you are married, at least legally. Pursue getting your marriage blessed by the Church, go to confession if that will make you feel better, and stay with your wife and son. Don’t worry yourself into an ulcer, things will be ok.

 

[Jesus_Saves]

All you need is Jesus. Don’t worry about what any church thinks, what others might say, or any man made legalistic issues. etc. Remember, the Jews were caught up by legalistic issues which led the Jews to crucify Him.

It is simple. Jesus surpasses any church, any religion, kings, governments, all leaders, etc.

Jesus wants a personal relationship with you. Not through any other person, or system, just you and Him. Pray NOW to Jesus that He will give you the truth, the answers to your questions, especially right now in your confusion.

My friend; I don’t know you but I can honestly tell you that
Jesus saved my life. He will take the confusion away forever if you simply trust in Him, and He alone.

He can certainly save your life through his grace and mercy. Only then will your confusion end. Trust me, once you are “born again” you will truly see what life can be with Jesus in your heart! It is amazing!!! Don’t wait!!!

“Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths” Joshua 1:9

“Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.” John 14:27

 

[jmcrae]

All you need is Jesus. Don’t worry about what any church thinks, what others might say, or any man made legalistic issues. etc. Remember, the Jews were caught up by legalistic issues which led the Jews to crucify Him.

These are not “legalistic issues” - these are Christ’s own commandments to Catholics on the subject of marriage.

Can we be saved if we intend to break Christ’s commandments?

 

[Jesus_Saves]

Again, with all due respect,

Jesus is the answer, not a church, not a religion, not any government, nor politicians; government leaders, church leaders, etc.

Trust me, If you have a personal relationship with Jesus our Lord, He will direct your paths and you won’t be confused by anything. Jesus ends confusion.

You must first ask Jesus into your life. Pray to Jesus, ask Him for direction, for forgiveness of your sins, and accept that He died on the cross for your sins and rose again on the third day. THEN YOUR EYES WILL BE OPENED TO THE TRUTH.

Until you pray this prayer, confusion will abound, I guarantee it.

 

[jmcrae]

Again, with all due respect,

Jesus is the answer, not a church, not a religion, not any government, nor politicians; government leaders, church leaders, etc.

Trust me, If you have a personal relationship with Jesus our Lord, He will direct your paths and you won’t be confused by anything. Jesus ends confusion.

Yes, He certainly does! If they had been following Jesus’ rules the whole time, they would not have ended up in this kind of trouble. It was by abandoning Christ for the ways of the world that they ended up in this situation, to begin with.

 

[Agent]

I am still going crazy over convalidation. I am getting contradictory information from parish priests and their assistants. I read this on EWTN website:

"The radical sanation becomes retroactively valid back to the original date of the marriage as the bishop, by decree, accepts the original consent (that is, the original invalid vows become valid).

A simple convalidation does NOT become retroactively valid but involves a new act of consent. For a simple convalidation, the true marriage in the eyes of God and the Church takes place on the day of the convalidation. The original vows do not become valid but the new vows replace them."

I cannot in good conscience ask my wife to state our original marraige was invalid. That is too much to ask especially when she does not believe this. The 4 priests I have spoken with do not seem to understand this. I am on the verge of giving up. . .

 

[jmcrae]

I am still going crazy over convalidation. I am getting contradictory information from parish priests and their assistants. I read this on EWTN website:

"The radical sanation becomes retroactively valid back to the original date of the marriage as the bishop, by decree, accepts the original consent (that is, the original invalid vows become valid).

A simple convalidation does NOT become retroactively valid but involves a new act of consent. For a simple convalidation, the true marriage in the eyes of God and the Church takes place on the day of the convalidation. The original vows do not become valid but the new vows replace them."

That’s very interesting. Does it, or could it, apply to your case?

I cannot in good conscience ask my wife to state our original marraige was invalid.

Why would she have to? I don’t understand. From her point of view, this is a renewal of vows and a blessing from a Catholic priest.

That is too much to ask especially when she does not believe this. The 4 priests I have spoken with do not seem to understand this. I am on the verge of giving up. . .

Why? What is it that you are trying to get them to do? Just get the marriage blessed. It’s a simple ceremony. Your wife doesn’t have to “believe” anything except that she wants to be married to you for the rest of her life, and that she can never divorce you. It’s a ten minute thing. She doesn’t even have to dress up for it, if she doesn’t want to.