Married life in the eastern rite

[Lilliana]

Hi…
I heard that there are different roles for married men and women in the Melkite rite than the western rite, and that the man’s word rules over the woman’s word when it comes to decisions.
Do you have a clear information about this, and is there any suggested readings or websites that explain the differences?

Thanks and God bless.

 

[Cluny]

First off, you should know there’s no such thing as “the eastern rite.” There are Eastern CHUCHES, each with different disciplines.

Next, you also should know that there’s not a “Melkite rite,” either, except as regards liturgical praxis, but Melkite Church.

Now, in the particulars of what you have described, this is a cultural issue, and not tied in with the spirituality of the Melkite Church.

 

[malphono]

Adding to what Cluny has already said, this may be what would have been considered a “cultural issue” in times past, but these days I would prefer to call it a “familial” or “individual” issue. In other words, it can (and believe me, it does) vary widely from family to family and even from individual to individual.

 

[Aramis]

Hi…
I heard that there are different roles for married men and women in the Melkite rite than the western rite, and that the man’s word rules over the woman’s word when it comes to decisions.

The wording of the Byzantine marriage is still very old fashioned; it still expresses those things explicitly, as Byzantine liturgies and paraliturgies are all both worship and instruction. The Melkites are still Byzantine Rite, albeit a unique expression thereof (Syro-Byzantine)…

But that “difference” is not extant even in Roman theology; Roman Theology still holds the man as head of the family. It’s based upon the Epistles of St. Paul the Apostle. It also is in the Chatechism.

The difference is more that the Roman liturgies are less focussed upon teaching as a general practice. (Vatican II attempted to revise that.) So many Roman Catholics are less aware of the actual church teaching.

 

[Jofantioch]

I am Orthodox and acquainted with my local Eastern rite Catholic church. Please excuse if my knowledge is incomplete. This is what I know from Orthodoxy.

1. Women have a very different role in liturgy in Eastern services. They NEVER distribute communion, and very very very rarely would read scripture during the service.
2. Women NEVER go near the alter, much less walk around or behind it. Therefore there are NO female acolytes in Eastern churches.
3. Only priests read the gospel in the Orthodox churches I’ve been to. I’ve been to OCA, GOA, Russian Orthodox, Antiochian, and Melekite (Eastern Catholic) jurisdictions. Deacons usually read the epistle.
4. The ideal of marriage in Orthodoxy is the same as that laid out by John Paul II in his Theology of the Body. The problem is that, culturally, many Middle Eastern, Near Eastern, and Mediterranian cultures are chauvanistic. Ethnicity trumps religion in cultural and moral values among most people, those professing Christianity are no exception. This is an unfortunate truth. Don’t forget, the road to hell is wide, the road to heaven is narrow. It’s a traffic issue!

 

[Cluny]

<<1. Women have a very different role in liturgy in Eastern services. They NEVER distribute communion, and very very very rarely would read scripture during the service.

1. Women NEVER go near the alter, much less walk around or behind it. Therefore there are NO female acolytes in Eastern churches.
2. Only priests read the gospel in the Orthodox churches I’ve been to. I’ve been to OCA, GOA, Russian Orthodox, Antiochian, and Melekite (Eastern Catholic) jurisdictions. Deacons usually read the epistle.>>
3. In my nearly 40 years of Orthodoxy, I’ve seen plenty of women read the lessons and the Epistle, even in the presence of a bishop.

St. Nectarios ordained deaconesses to help distribute Communion in his monasteries when a priest was not present.

1. In women’s monasteries, tonsured nuns act as acolytes all the time. The late Mother Alexandra describes how she did. I’ve even seen a nun put incense in a hand censer, bless it,and cense the altar and temple when nuns would sing Vespers sine sacerdote.

I’ve also seen Metropolitan Maximos of Pittsburgh bless women to act as sacristans.

1. It’s the Deacon’s usual ministry to read the Gospel, if one is present.

 

[Cluny]

<<1. Women have a very different role in liturgy in Eastern services. They NEVER distribute communion, and very very very rarely would read scripture during the service.

1. Women NEVER go near the alter, much less walk around or behind it. Therefore there are NO female acolytes in Eastern churches.
2. Only priests read the gospel in the Orthodox churches I’ve been to. I’ve been to OCA, GOA, Russian Orthodox, Antiochian, and Melekite (Eastern Catholic) jurisdictions. Deacons usually read the epistle.>>
3. In my nearly 40 years of Orthodoxy, I’ve seen plenty of women read the lessons and the Epistle, even in the presence of a bishop.

St. Nectarios ordained deaconesses to help distribute Communion in his monasteries when a priest was not present.

1. In women’s monasteries, tonsured nuns act as acolytes all the time. The late Mother Alexandra describes how she did. I’ve even seen a nun put incense in a hand censer, bless it,and cense the altar and temple when nuns would sing Vespers sine sacerdote.

I’ve also seen Metropolitan Maximos of Pittsburgh bless women to act as sacristans.

1. It’s the Deacon’s usual ministry to read the Gospel, if one is present.

 

[Jofantioch]

Thanks, Cluny!

My patron saint was a Deaconess and a “father confessor”. She was one of the early lady saints who posed as a eunich monk. As I said, women don’t read the gospel and, in my experience, deacons have read the epistle. In your post you clarified that the only women who distributed communion were deacons.

I was hoping that someone would comment on the chauvanism element of my post. That’s the real cause of unloving behavior in marriage, not the Holy Spirit. That was really the crux of the original question.

 

[Cluny]

<>

“Male chauvinism” is a phrase that originated as a buzz-word in Communist cells, and it’s a term I find objectionable.

What makes it worse is that female chavinism has reared its ugly head in the last few decades.

 

[eichenb2]

Hi…
I heard that there are different roles for married men and women in the Melkite rite than the western rite, and that the man’s word rules over the woman’s word when it comes to decisions.
Do you have a clear information about this, and is there any suggested readings or websites that explain the differences?

Thanks and God bless.

1. Men are the head of the family, as Christ is the Head of the Church.
2. God created Adam first; then Eve
3. Christ chose 12 MALE Disciples

None of these facts mean that Women are any less intrinsically valuable as people than men. Also, if a man, be head a Priest, Deacon, or husband attempts to lead in an un-Christlike manner, he should not be obeyed. I once heard of a Christian man who told his wife that she had to consent to sexual threesomes and that the Bible commanded obedience from wives (to husbands). She did not consent and rightfully so. The idea of men having the leadership role in the family and Church is not new. It is order of creation. Christian men, though, are taught that this is a burden of responsibility and not a license to fulfill his desires. Remember…Sameness and Equality are not synonyms.

 

[Phardim]

I was watching a documentary on EWTN of Catholic mass in Iraq. I believe it was Chaldean. I noticed that women sat together as a group and likewise the men. A little different than the western culture.

 

[eichenb2]

I was watching a documentary on EWTN of Catholic mass in Iraq. I believe it was Chaldean. I noticed that women sat together as a group and likewise the men. A little different than the western culture.

Someone should tell Laura Ingraham (FOX commentator and famous Catholic convert) that men and women sitting separately is NOT contrary to Catholic teaching.

 

[Cluny]

Someone should tell Laura Ingraham (FOX commentator and famous Catholic convert) that men and women sitting separately is NOT contrary to Catholic teaching.

As a matter of fact, there was a time when the canons of the Latin Church required this to be done, but it was more honored in the breach in the USA, even before Vatican 2.

 

[cubsfanterry5]

I was watching a documentary on EWTN of Catholic mass in Iraq. I believe it was Chaldean. I noticed that women sat together as a group and likewise the men. A little different than the western culture.

I spent some time in Iraq as an assistant to a Catholic Chaplain, and we had many Chaldean Christians worshipping at Mass with us. It was a wonderful experience to meet these men and women, sharing in our common faith.

The men and women did indeed sit separately from one another. It was interesting to see the differences in the traditions (little t) between our Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters and we Westerners.