Married man, single female friend

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don’t worry, I have no intention of stirring the pot with this one. I already told my friend that I thought it was a bit weird, and she agreed and we left it at that.I won’t be bringing it up again with her unless she decides to bring it up. But I was just wondering if others felt this way too, or if I was just being a fuddy duddy.

One thing that does bug me about all this is her husband has several, very attractive single, female friends that he sees from time to time. usually very innocent, just friends type of thing, but I was talking last night about this with my husband , and he felt that although it is nice to have friends of the opposite sex to help with things like, shopping for a surprise gift etc ect, a married man needs to maintain distance. His obligation is his wife and to spend an evening out with another woman when he has a wife at home chasing his kids all day, is not respectful to the wife.
 
Luvs2Learn said:
don’t worry, I have no intention of stirring the pot with this one. I already told my friend that I thought it was a bit weird, and she agreed and we left it at that.I won’t be bringing it up again with her unless she decides to bring it up. But I was just wondering if others felt this way too, or if I was just being a fuddy duddy.

One thing that does bug me about all this is her husband has several, very attractive single, female friends that he sees from time to time. usually very innocent, just friends type of thing, but I was talking last night about this with my husband , and he felt that although it is nice to have friends of the opposite sex to help with things like, shopping for a surprise gift etc ect, a married man needs to maintain distance. His obligation is his wife and to spend an evening out with another woman when he has a wife at home chasing his kids all day, is not respectful to the wife.
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*I like your husband. 👍 *
 
If this were my husband, and I really thought she was just a friend (now I have that Biz Markie song in my head), I would tell him to have a nice dinner and see you at X o’clock!

However, I would also tell him that as she is HIS friend, not mine, he can go buy the birthday gift himself. Just because I am a woman doesn’t mean I know what she likes.
 
I do some contract teaching away from home a couple of times a year for a week at a time. I have become very good friends with some of my co-instructors. When we are off teaching together, we eat breakfast, lunch and dinner together. We e-mail each other to keep in touch throughout the rest of the year. Yes, these are very dear friends to me (they have met my family and I have met theirs)…but I would NEVER buy them a birthday gift to go along with a birthday dinner out if it ever happened that we were teaching together on their birthday. That just seems weird to me!
 
I wonder if there are any men on this board who would like to offer up a male perspective? So far, I think all women have answered, and most have thought this situation to be “weird”.
 
_Jenn said:
It wouldn’t bother me, nor would it bother my dh if the situation were reversed. But we have complete trust in one another.
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lol that’s how it all starts out. “No I never ever could have imagined he/she would ever do that to me I trusted him/her!”.

As someone who has been cheated on, this is a pretty big Red Flag if I were the other spouse. It’d be a little understandable if she wasn’t single either and it was a one time thing and they hadn’t seen each other in years but if it’s a common thing and she’s 1. Young 2. Attractive and 3. Single. That’s just asking for something to happen if not putting oneself in the near occasion to sin.
 
*Why does the person being attractive matter? Why do we presume that the wife in question is not attractive or young? lol

I don’t get the sense that the wife is threatened here.

I asked my husband, since you wanted a male opinion, LuvstoLearn…and he said "why would I want to take another woman out on the town, if I’m married?’’ I said…is that your answer? lol 🤷 He said…is this the question of the day on the Catholic board? :D*
 
I think it is a really weird situation. If my husband (one day) had a friendship with a single woman where he took her out to dinner alone in another city, I would not be ok with that, even if it is because it’s her birthday.

I don’t think it is a good idea for married men to be good friends with a single woman, especially hanging out alone like that. 🤷

And to whatevergirl, even though this sounds shallow, if the woman in question were attractive it would be a much bigger problem for me that he was hanging out with her than if she were “ugly”. Maybe it is insecurity but I would think there is less of a chance for anything to happen with the woman if he didn’t find her physically attractive–it would be easier to keep the friendship platonic.
 
Luvs2Learn said:
I wonder if there are any men on this board who would like to offer up a male perspective? So far, I think all women have answered, and most have thought this situation to be “weird”.
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I have many friends, male and female, single and married. I will go out one-on-one with married and single female friends, and it has not been problem. I don’t think the situation is weird at all. We also have the opposite occur (she goes out with single men).

Those who argue “well it hurts the marriage because it invites cheating” are missing half the argument. Placing unjust restrictions on a husband (unjust from his perspective) will lead to resentment. For example, if my wife told me “You can’t visit Catholic Answers because you might develop anti-protestant beliefs” (she is protestant), then I would greatly resent that, because that’s not why I’m here (I’m here to learn more about Catholicism) and she has no reason to believe otherwise. In fact, when a friend mentions something he or she learned on this website, my first thought would go to my wife and her unjustified restriction, and it would hurt our marriage.

So there’s a balancing act. If a wife gives a husband unjust restrictions, he will probably resent those restrictions, and that will hurt the marriage. If a wife gives a guy too much leeway, it causes the wife excessive worry and creates the opportunity for infidelity, which hurts the marriage.

So where is the balance? That depends on the marriage (hey, no one said it’s easy). If a man has a predisposition for infidelity (for example, he has cheated in the past, he has a pornography addiction, he has a “flirty” personality, etc), he obviously should get much less leeway than a guy without a predisposition. Trust also plays a a part - the more trust there is, the more leeway to give. In addition, the personality of the wife plays a part: a wife that is a “worry wart” gives less leeway than one that is more relaxed (part of the balance is the cost to the wife from worrying). Personally, I’m skeptical of people that have found the balance in their marriage and try to push that balancing point on another couple: the balance is different for every couple.

Something flags to consider though:
  1. Does he introduce this friend to his wife, or does he always go out with her alone? Have they double-dated in the past?
  2. Does he openly discuss this person to his wife (like actually mention things she said while they were out) or does he keep the discussions and events quiet? Does he leave the room when she calls? Basically, is he trying to compartmentalize his life?
  3. Does he take her to public places you would expect him to take a male friend or private places? When they go out to dinner alone, is it a dark-lit fancy restaurant, or TGI Fridays?
  4. How is his marriage going?
In general, most guys are pretty easy to read. If he’s being secretive, there’s reason to worry. If he’s very open, there usually less reason to worry. Also, look for sudden changes in his personality: did he suddenly start working out, is he suddenly much happier, is he more sexual in the marriage, etc.
 
Coming from the single side of things, I would be very uncomfortable if married man who was a friend, was going to dinner with me on my birthday and brought me a card/present. Why isn’t she going on her birthday with a group of friends and family? Does she have a crush the on guy?
 
Luvs2Learn said:
I wonder if there are any men on this board who would like to offer up a male perspective? So far, I think all women have answered, and most have thought this situation to be “weird”.
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Okay, as a married man, I’ll weigh in. 🙂

Perhaps there are some couples for whom this would not be problematic, but I, too, find the situation a bit “weird.”

This is one of the things my wife and I struggled with as we (and most of our friends) transitioned from single life to married life. Before we started dating, most of my good friends were women, and most of her good friends were men. That’s not the case anymore. As our relationship got more and more serious (and eventually led to marriage), it started to feel more and more awkward to spend one-on-one time with other women, even though there would be no romantic intentions from either party.

One of my closest pre-marriage female friends is herself married, too. She’s also friends with my wife, too, and I couldn’t imagine going out to dinner “just the two of us.” It would be too weird.

I like whatevergirl’s observations. It’s not necessarily a trust issue but a matter of “Is this edifying to your marriage?”
 
I’m kind of in the opposite situation. I’m a married woman working w/ pretty much all guys. Some of them are single & others are married. There is one that I jokingly (to my husband & to him) refer to as my ‘work husband’. We share workspace together & some days we are the only people we see at work all day. Recently I had my 28th birthday. I work 35 miles from home & from hubby’s work, so we knew I wasn’t going to get taken out. Not a big deal. However, my single guy co-worker took me out to Applebee’s for lunch. I didn’t mention it before-hand to my hubby b/c I didn’t know it was going to happen. This co-worker has been out to our house a couple times & regularly talks to my husband about business (hubby is a mechanic & he fixes this guy’s car). They have a joking relationship w/ one another & even acknowledge the close work relationship we have.

However, I had asked his opinion on me doing things like this w/ my co-workers (either as the only girl in a group of guys, or one-on-one). He said he trusts me completely & to go ahead and go to lunch or even after-work get-togethers, except w/ one guy that has a reputation of being a ‘hunter’ and while not completely perverted, he crowds the line. I brought it up though b/c I feel a bit odd going out even to lunch w/ a man that’s not my husband or a family member. I try not to do so much one-on-one out & about socializing w/ any of my co-workers (partly b/c I’m not all that social & partly b/c I don’t want the hassle).

It can be a delicate situation, but if the lines of communication are open and activities are well-known by ALL involved, it can easily be ok.
 
I thought of another point, too - a point my wife and I have talked about before. I think that it also makes a difference as to when the friendship began: before or after the married couple was a couple. There’s something different about opposite-sex friendships started when we were single and those started after we began dating.

My wife has a good male friend who is still single, however they were friends for years before we started dating. If, for some reason, we were in different states, and the two of them went out together for dinner, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. But I would find it a bit odd if he bought her a gift, or if she bought him a gift.
 
w2bp88 said:
And to whatevergirl, even though this sounds shallow, if the woman in question were attractive it would be a much bigger problem for me that he was hanging out with her than if she were “ugly”. Maybe it is insecurity but I would think there is less of a chance for anything to happen with the woman if he didn’t find her physically attractive–it would be easier to keep the friendship platonic.
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I agree with Whatevergirl - the attractiveness and age of the woman should not come into it:rolleyes: Are attractive people more prone to sin?! One could also argue that an attractive and confident professional woman would have the self-respect and dignity to gratefully accept the gift of friendship from this man and in return, respect the fact that he is married and not feel any need to validate her femininity or desirability by coming on to someone else’s husband.

Believe it or not - some attractive and bright women are single because we have religious beliefs that we chose not to compromise (however difficult that may be) Being single can get pretty lonely - and if a good friend wants to make a generous gesture in the spirit of friendship, it is always appreciated - but appreciated for what it is:thumbsup:
 
Rose71 said:
I agree with Whatevergirl - the attractiveness and age of the woman should not come into it:rolleyes: Are attractive people more prone to sin?! One could also argue that an attractive and confident professional woman would have the self-respect and dignity to gratefully accept the gift of friendship from this man and in return, respect the fact that he is married and not feel any need to validate her femininity or desirability by coming on to someone else’s husband.

Believe it or not - some attractive and bright women are single because we have religious beliefs that we chose not to compromise (however difficult that may be) Being single can get pretty lonely - and if a good friend wants to make a generous gesture in the spirit of friendship, it is always appreciated - but appreciated for what it is:thumbsup:
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  • I was single once, and no way would I entertain a married man at dinner…who wanted to buy me a birthday gift, and treat me to a dinner…I think that at some point, regardless of any of the fluff we want to talk about here–this single woman should say to herself, this guy’s married, I don’t need to be taken out for my birthday for dinner by a married man…she only has a married man to spend her birthday with? And as the thread goes on here, it’s ‘interesting’ for lack of a better word, that the married man here has a number of female friends that he has dinner with.
When does he find time for his wife? I’m not a jealous type, but there’s only room for one woman in my marriage, ME. LOL No female costars in this movie. 😉

If my husband wants to flit around with various women…disguising it all as friendships…he can do it without being with me anymore. Call it whatever you want, but secure men don’t need to company of lots of women, they only want to share their private time with their wives, family, male friends…and it’s not uncool, or jealousy based if a woman OR man doesn’t want their respective spouses to be carrying themselves in this way. This married man shouldn’t even put his wife into the position of having to think about this.

I think I’m old fashioned on this. And I have been told I’m attractive, so it wouldn’t matter to me the looks of the woman…it would just matter that my husband ain’t home with me, he’s out “galavanting around” (there’s an old Jersey term that I grew up with lol) with other women. Enough. No, this is not the behavior of a decent, secure Catholic man.

I’m talking more to the point of the man in question here, who has numerous female friends…There’s no need. My dh has a dear friend who is female from high school…she is a doll. Beautiful woman, has been married 4 times. My husband, when we lived in PA, would meet up with her for the occasional lunch, but no more than that. If he wanted to take her out for her birthday dinner, without me…I would find it very strange. Lunch, fine. I would have no problem going together…double dating, whatever. My dh has lunch with female colleagues at work, and we don’t share every detail about our days with each other. There is immense trust between us. BUT…don’t take women you’re not married to out for birthday dinners, and spend money on gifts for them…No. One thing to pitch in for a birthday gift at work for a colleague…but not something intimate like this.

And he wouldn’t want me going out for birthday dinners with men. Again, we are quite a laid back couple, but we have our limits. :o

My dad would never have gone out with women, other than my mom…never. He would be disgraced if his daughters did such a thing.

Okay, I’m off my Italian soapbox. Just my two cents…not looking for agreement, just had to get that off of my chest. 🎉*
 
Rose71 said:
I agree with Whatevergirl - the attractiveness and age of the woman should not come into it:rolleyes: Are attractive people more prone to sin?! One could also argue that an attractive and confident professional woman would have the self-respect and dignity to gratefully accept the gift of friendship from this man and in return, respect the fact that he is married and not feel any need to validate her femininity or desirability by coming on to someone else’s husband.

Believe it or not - some attractive and bright women are single because we have religious beliefs that we chose not to compromise (however difficult that may be) Being single can get pretty lonely - and if a good friend wants to make a generous gesture in the spirit of friendship, it is always appreciated - but appreciated for what it is:thumbsup:
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I never said the attractive person is more prone to sin. What I was trying to say is that men are more tempted to cheat with an attractive woman than one who is not. If she is young and pretty, she will be much more tempting to a man than one who is old and ugly. This is not to say that a man will cheat just because a woman is attractive, I’m just saying that if you see your husband meeting up with an old woman who is not in the least attractive it will make you feel a little better than seeing him meet with a young, gorgeous woman (and single, at that). Now if both of these people have strong moral values, then I don’t think it is as much of a problem but I definitely think attractiveness plays a role.
 
Many wives are attractive, and pleasing to the eyes. We don’t suddenly become unattractive because we’re married, with kids. 😉
This thread is starting to feel like a cliche. :o
 
From a guys perspective… I don’t know the man involved so I shouldn’t question his intentions, but I will. If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. At the very least this man is guilty of poor judgment. If this woman is truly a friend then she won’t mind if this man pays the respect due his marriage and invites his wife to join them. If the wife is not welcome, there’s a problem. If the wife can’t attend then the dinner should be postponed until she can or canceled. For the sake of the marriage, I hope poor judgment and is all this man is guilty of. The wife is right to question this arrangement.
 
rb437 said:
From a guys perspective… I don’t know the man involved so I shouldn’t question his intentions, but I will. If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. At the very least this man is guilty of poor judgment. If this woman is truly a friend then she won’t mind if this man pays the respect due his marriage and invites his wife to join them. If the wife is not welcome, there’s a problem. If the wife can’t attend then the dinner should be postponed until she can or canceled. For the sake of the marriage, I hope poor judgment and is all this man is guilty of. The wife is right to question this arrangement.
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*I think that the dinner is taking place in another town…without scrolling back through the thread, I think that the husband is going to be in a different city on business “already,” the same city as the friend? I think that is the scenario, I can’t recall now. :o

But, let’s say that is not the case, I agree with you 100%. *
 
whatevergirl said:
*Why does the person being attractive matter? Why do we presume that the wife in question is not attractive or young? lol

I don’t get the sense that the wife is threatened here.

I asked my husband, since you wanted a male opinion, LuvstoLearn…and he said "why would I want to take another woman out on the town, if I’m married?’’ I said…is that your answer? lol 🤷 He said…is this the question of the day on the Catholic board? :D*
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Most men (not all) are attracted to “attractive” young women by nature. Men are visually oriented in attraction while women tend to be attracted more towards personality aspects (confidence, financially secure, able to raise family, ect.) Not all but that is the general trend between the two genders. There are exceptions all the time of course.

That was a scientific observation (and my own) now if the friend is indeed attractive then it increases the odds of something bad happening = higher risk = not a good idea = red flag ect. If she is young and single (multiply the above factor by 2) which nearly doubles the chance. The spouse would have every right to be concerned. Of course it’s a matter of trust but unless a man or women were sinless wouldn’t such an odd situation be of concern to any spouse man or women? I know if my future wife did that I’d certainly not be ok with it and would be highly suspicious also because I have been let down by two people I put enormous trust in before.

All in all, I’ve learned in such situations is just to trust your gut. If something is not right inside then most likely something ain’t right. It’s never let me down.
 
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