Married member's of CAF, who comes second?

[marymary1975]

I think bias plays a big role here. Not just bias as the person handling a divorce case but also the bias of the person pursuing the divorce. People love to blame it all on the kids. But in the case of a person who says they are divorcing b/c the wife puts the child first, we can turn that around and say the person is pursuing divorce because he failed to put his spouse and children in their proper order. He failed to give them the dignity and care that they deserved. See how that works? I completely disagree with this idea that parents put too much care and attention towards their kids. That is not happening. It’s the complete opposite. Parents are waaaay too selfish and THAT’S the reason divorce happens almost every single time. The idea that parents are too child centered is total myth. But I do realize that many people view it that way and therefore, present such a bias. Please provide any references from the Church that suggest there is danger in putting a child first. That idea comes from “the world”, the culture.

I bet if you asked the child why the parents were divorcing they would NOT say that it was because any parent put them first. Something to think about…

I actually have never ever heard anyone either saying that they are divorcing their spouse because the spouse puts the kid first so I am not sure where you get that idea. A huge majority of the people who are prosecuting a divorce give you as reason that they don’t love the spouse anymore or that they can’t stand the spouse. The rest is either adultery or abuse. So I have to disagree that most people blame the kid. But when you compile a story of the marriage to see what really happens, 50% of the time was what I wrote as a reply to fontgoddes.

Second, I am sorry but yes, parents can be too child centered and put too much attention on kids. I have kids and interact with many kids and other parents as a parent and you see it constantly. Kids have to learn the meaning of the word NO, kids have to learn that they cannot get everything they want, kids over 18 months have to learn that the parent is the boss and they need to obey and that you cannot run every time they scream, kids have to learn patience, respect and consideration towards others and kids need to learn independence and discipline. If you run to do everything the kid wants, cannot say no to your kid (which is quite common now a days) and if the kid runs the entire household then you are putting too much attention to your kid. I don’t know where are you seeing that parents don’t put enough attention to their kids because any parent in this forum can tell you that one of the main problems today with kids is the too permissive parenting where the kid run the household and treats the parent as a slave.

And with regard to the CCC, making reference to church sources : noticed that the CCC says “the parents are the teachers”. The church uses the word “TEACHER” not best friends, not pals, not companion neither any other word that reflects a relation between two equals. The word TEACHER means one who educates which means giving moral, intellectual and social instruction to someone else. One teachers and the other one learns, hence is not an equal relationship and can’t be and is a relationship where the parent is the one who leads, not the kid. So the idea that the child is the center of the family is not catholic because by using the word teacher the church is telling you that the child must learn from the parent and you can add to that several passages in proverbs that warn against not teaching discipline to your kid.

 

[marymary1975]

I’m not asking this to be offensive, but how old are you? Your perspective seems as though it’s coming from someone younger, who identifies more with being a child in the family than an adult who is responsible for preserving and strengthening a marriage while nurturing and guiding children.

No one is suggesting being selfish, or not taking care of children, or giving them the love and attention that they need and deserve. What we are saying is that parents cannot do that effectively if they are not properly tending to their own relationship first.

One of the most common causes of divorce is that a couple, or even just one spouse, will throw themselves completely into parenting and neglect their marital bond. Women tend to take all of their love, passion, and commitment and transfer it to their child from their husbands, and that isn’t right or fair to anyone, the child included. How many new empty-nesters end up looking at each other the day their last child leaves for college and realize that they have nothing to talk about, that they don’t know each other anymore? Far too many.

You keep posting links, church documents, statements made by Popes, etc. But none of what you have posted contradicts the notion that the spousal relationship comes first, and that by putting that relationship first you actually benefit your children tremendously.

I totally agree with you and I did think the same that you wrote on your first paragraph.

 

[marymary1975]

I really feel that anytime a person starts to put one relationship within their family, their domestic Church, above another they run the risk of harming their marriage and relationships within it. When I read from the Church, I see no placing of importance of one relationship over the other but perhaps I am missing it.

Consequently, faced with a society that is running the risk of becoming more and more depersonalized and standparticular inidid therefore inhuman and dehumanizing, with the negative results of many forms of escapism-such as alcoholism, drugs and even terrorism-the family possesses and continues still to release formidable energies capable of taking man out of his anonymity, keeping him conscious of his personal dignity, enriching him with deep humanity and actively placing him, in his uniqueness and unrepeatability, within the fabric of society."

I am also getting the impression from your posts that you feel that all the relationships that one person has in his/ her life are directly in competition with each other. That is not true and is a very negative way of thinking. The relationship I have with parents, friends, husband and kids are very different kinds of relationships that are not on an order of one over the other, instead they are in a horizontal line and each relationship gets defined by the particulars of that relationship.

 

[CarrieSpooner]

I am also getting the impression from your posts that you feel that all the relationships that one person has in his/ her life are directly in competition with each other. That is not true and is a very negative way of thinking. The relationship I have with parents, friends, husband and kids are very different kinds of relationships that are not on an order of one over the other, instead they are in a horizontal line and each relationship gets defined by the particulars of that relationship.

No, in fact I am arguing the exact opposite. I have pointed out this tendency and argue that it is creating a “tension of placing a value scale where none exists” (as I stated in my very first response in this thread. When posters have attempted to create a competition, I have pointed out that the opposite is also true thereby dissolving the tension (or attempting to do so, lol). You are stating that there is no order in the relationships in your life however others have stated that the spousal relationship is objectively more important in order over that of the parent/child relationship.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

No, in fact I am arguing the exact opposite. I have pointed out this tendency and argue that it is creating a “tension of placing a value scale where none exists” (as I stated in my very first response in this thread. When posters have attempted to create a competition, I have pointed out that the opposite is also true thereby dissolving the tension (or attempting to do so, lol). You are stating that there is no order in the relationships in your life however others have stated that the spousal relationship is objectively more important in order over that of the parent/child relationship.

It absolutely is. In 18 years, if you’ve done your job right, your child will leave home, make their own way in life, build their own network and relationships, and if they’re lucky, find someone wonderful to marry. If they witnessed their own parents put each other first, they will be far more ready and able to do the same with their own spouse.

Where are the parents when this is happening? Still together, honoring their vows and continuing with life together. The parents still love their children, and are still there for them, but the nature of the relationship is so different than that between spouses. A parent-child relationship goes through many changes, but a spouse is always a spouse. And of course, the children still love their parents, but the love they have for their parents does not compare to that of their spouse, and their primary responsibility is to their own partner.

 

[CarrieSpooner]

I actually have never ever heard anyone either saying that they are divorcing their spouse because the spouse puts the kid first so I am not sure where you get that idea. A huge majority of the people who are prosecuting a divorce give you as reason that they don’t love the spouse anymore or that they can’t stand the spouse. The rest is either adultery or abuse. So I have to disagree that most people blame the kid. But when you compile a story of the marriage to see what really happens, 50% of the time was what I wrote as a reply to fontgoddes.

Second, I am sorry but yes, parents can be too child centered and put too much attention on kids. I have kids and interact with many kids and other parents as a parent and you see it constantly. Kids have to learn the meaning of the word NO, kids have to learn that they cannot get everything they want, kids over 18 months have to learn that the parent is the boss and they need to obey and that you cannot run every time they scream, kids have to learn patience, respect and consideration towards others and kids need to learn independence and discipline. If you run to do everything the kid wants, cannot say no to your kid (which is quite common now a days) and if the kid runs the entire household then you are putting too much attention to your kid. I don’t know where are you seeing that parents don’t put enough attention to their kids because any parent in this forum can tell you that one of the main problems today with kids is the too permissive parenting where the kid run the household and treats the parent as a slave.

And with regard to the CCC, making reference to church sources : noticed that the CCC says “the parents are the teachers”. The church uses the word “TEACHER” not best friends, not pals, not companion neither any other word that reflects a relation between two equals. The word TEACHER means one who educates which means giving moral, intellectual and social instruction to someone else. One teachers and the other one learns, hence is not an equal relationship and can’t be and is a relationship where the parent is the one who leads, not the kid. So the idea that the child is the center of the family is not catholic because by using the word teacher the church is telling you that the child must learn from the parent and you can add to that several passages in proverbs that warn against not teaching discipline to your kid.

Parents “can” be too child centered but the vast majority of the time, they are not. I wish you could walk in the shoes for 1 hour and see just how often children are told no. I think you would change the way you are thinking/writing in an instant! And no, no one is saying do everything the child wants.

The CCC doesn’t just say that the parents are the teacher. The CCC also says that the parents learn from the children and that there is an “exchange” there. See, this is what I see, culture. It’s culture that tells us children can only learn from us, not the other way around. We don’t even consider the other way around. Yet what does the Church say?

Since I still have this open on my computer:

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_19811122_familiaris-consortio_en.html

“A fundamental opportunity for building such a communion is constituted by the educational exchange between parents and children,(60) in which each gives and receives. By means of love, respect and obedience towards their parents, children offer their specific and irreplaceable contribution to the construction of an authentically human and Christian family.(61) They will be aided in this if parents exercise their unrenounceable authority as a true and proper “ministry,” that is, as a service to the human and Christian well-being of their children, and in particular as a service aimed at helping them acquire a truly responsible freedom, and if parents maintain a living awareness of the “gift” they continually receive from their children.”

^Absolutely beautiful! Yet so many parents today, including Catholics, miss out on their chance to receive during the educational exchange by their cultural bias against children and viewing themselves as the sole TEACHER in the experience. No, we are not called to be friend instead of parent however there are many of the same attributes between parent and friend. Let us not forget that.

 

[marymary1975]

No, in fact I am arguing the exact opposite. I have pointed out this tendency and argue that it is creating a “tension of placing a value scale where none exists” (as I stated in my very first response in this thread. When postehave attempted to create a competition, I have pointed out that the opposite is also true thereby dissolving the tension (or attempting to do so, lol). You are stating that there is no order in the relationships in your life however otherswrong, stated that the spousal relationship is objectively more important in order over that of the parent/child relationship.

The part you seem not to grasp yet is that people cannot parent properly if their relationship is not healthy first! The relationship you have with a child is not and cannot be the same with your spouse. All the relationships are on a horizontal line but you have to treat each per their nature and organize it properly in order because certain things steam from others. The relationship with your spouse is an equal relationship where both are working towards a unified goal. Relationship with a child is NOT equal, is a teacher/pupil relationship in which the pupil is going to copy from both teachers. If the teachers themselves are wrong the pupil is going to be wrong, so the teacher needs to fix itself first to be able to teach properly otherwise is doing a bad job, so yes the teacher comes first because if the teacher makes a mistake the pupil is going to repeat it. But that does not mean that the pupil is inferior to the teacher. Means that they are different. See the point?

 

[CarrieSpooner]

The part you seem not to grasp yet is that people cannot parent properly if their relationship is not healthy first! The relationship you have with a child is not and cannot be the same with your spouse. All the relationships are on a horizontal line but you have to treat each per their nature and organize it properly in order because certain things steam from others. The relationship with your spouse is an equal relationship where both are working towards a unified goal. Relationship with a child is NOT equal, is a teacher/pupil relationship in which the pupil is going to copy from both teachers. If the teachers themselves are wrong the pupil is going to be wrong, so the teacher needs to fix itself first to be able to teach properly otherwise is doing a bad job, so yes the teacher comes first because if the teacher makes a mistake the pupil is going to repeat it. But that does not mean that the pupil is inferior to the teacher. Means that they are different. See the point?

People have to do it all the time. If everyone waited until their marriage was healthy to properly parent, I’d wager to bet that the majority of children would not be parented properly. It’s not one or the other. It’s both! As I’ve learned in my study of Catholicism, the Church represents the great “Both/And”!!! You do both. One is not over the other. We may fail in one area or more but we strive for both. I completely disagree that the parent/child relationship is not equal. It absolutely is! Parents are wrong on a regular basis. Parents are not omniscient therefore they will be wrong. I am wrong and you are wrong. Humbling it is when my own child corrects me, as they have done and continue to do. Also, sometimes it’s not necessarily being “wrong” but rather gaining a new insight from our children that we hadn’t realized before. According to the Gospel, we must strive to receive Christ like a little child. There is much that we can learn from children. And our Holy Mother Church teaches that parent/child education is not one sided but rather a mutual exchange.

 

[CarrieSpooner]

The part you seem not to grasp yet is that people cannot parent properly if their relationship is not healthy first! The relationship you have with a child is not and cannot be the same with your spouse. All the relationships are on a horizontal line but you have to treat each per their nature and organize it properly in order because certain things steam from others. The relationship with your spouse is an equal relationship where both are working towards a unified goal. Relationship with a child is NOT equal, is a teacher/pupil relationship in which the pupil is going to copy from both teachers. If the teachers themselves are wrong the pupil is going to be wrong, so the teacher needs to fix itself first to be able to teach properly otherwise is doing a bad job, so yes the teacher comes first because if the teacher makes a mistake the pupil is going to repeat it. But that does not mean that the pupil is inferior to the teacher. Means that they are different. See the point?

Also, I would argue that a spousal relationship can’t be healthy if first their relationship with their children is unhealthy. Both/And.

 

[CarrieSpooner]

It absolutely is.

What absolutely is?

In 18 years, if you’ve done your job right, your child will leave home, make their own way in life, build their own network and relationships, and if they’re lucky, find someone wonderful to marry. If they witnessed their own parents put each other first, they will be far more ready and able to do the same with their own spouse.

Well, first they have to overcome the damage that was done to them being raised in environment as an infant/toddler/child/teen where their own parent put their spouse above them. This is not what the Church teaches us to do.

Where are the parents when this is happening? Still together, honoring their vows and continuing with life together. The parents still love their children, and are still there for them, but the nature of the relationship is so different than that between spouses. A parent-child relationship goes through many changes, but a spouse is always a spouse. And of course, the children still love their parents, but the love they have for their parents does not compare to that of their spouse, and their primary responsibility is to their own partner.

This really serves what I’m saying more than the opposite. The brief time we have with our children is so critical for the rest of their lives and essentially, so critical for all of society. The time we have with them forms them. We have already been formed. This time is so crucial yet we must put our spouse first even though we will have them for many more decades after our children are gone??? Madness! I’m reading what the Church teaches and I’m just seeing how absolutely important this brief time with our children is. It’s not time to put a spouse first, not at all. Yes, I agree with everyone else that we should not neglect our spouse but rather respect the dignity of each member of the family and give according to the needs of each. Children generally have far greater needs during this period of time. This is a fact that the Church states.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

What absolutely is?

Well, first they have to overcome the damage that was done to them being raised in environment as an infant/toddler/child/teen where their own parent put their spouse above them. This is not what the Church teaches us to do.

This really serves what I’m saying more than the opposite. The brief time we have with our children is so critical for the rest of their lives and essentially, so critical for all of society. The time we have with them forms them. We have already been formed. This time is so crucial yet we must put our spouse first even though we will have them for many more decades after our children are gone??? Madness! I’m reading what the Church teaches and I’m just seeing how absolutely important this brief time with our children is. It’s not time to put a spouse first, not at all. Yes, I agree with everyone else that we should not neglect our spouse but rather respect the dignity of each member of the family and give according to the needs of each. Children generally have far greater needs during this period of time. This is a fact that the Church states.

Are you married? I am really getting a sense that you’re not, and that’s ok, but I think that’s why your perspective is so different. When you do get married and you realize just how much relies on you and your spouse being as strong, committed, and happy as you can be, and how well you function as a team flows from that, you’ll see firsthand how and why it is so much better for children to be put after the spouse, than put before.

 

[marymary1975]

Parents “can” be too child centered but the vast majority of the time, they are not. I wish you could walk in the shoes for 1 hour and see just how often children are told no. I think you would change the way you are thinking/writing in an instant! And no, no one is saying do everything the child wants.

The CCC doesn’t just say that the parents are the teacher. The CCC also says that the parents learn from the children and that there is an “exchange” there. See, this is what I see, culture. It’s culture that tells us children can only learn from us, not the other way around. We don’t even consider the other way around. Yet what does the Church say?

Since I still have this open on my computer:

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_19811122_familiaris-consortio_en.html

“A fundamental opportunity for building such a communion is constituted by the educational exchange between parents and children,(60) in which each gives and receives. By means of love, respect and obedience towards their parents, children offer their specific and irreplaceable contribution to the construction of an authentically human and Christian family.(61) They will be aided in this if parents exercise their unrenounceable authority as a true and proper “ministry,” that is, as a service to the human and Christian well-being of their children, and in particular as a service aimed at helping them acquire a truly responsible freedom, and if parents maintain a living awareness of the “gift” they continually receive from their children.”

^Absolutely beautiful! Yet so many parents today, including Catholics, miss out on their chance to receive during the educational exchange by their cultural bias against children and viewing themselves as the sole TEACHER in the experience. No, we are not called to be friend instead of parent however there are many of the same attributes between parent and friend. Let us not forget that.

Just like BlueEyedLady said, i think you are talking from the point of view of a very young person who is not a parent and lacks experience. Yes, I do remember perfectly when I was told no as a child and I already walked on the shoes of a child. But I grew up became a parent and learned why my adults did what they did. There is a very important reason as to whyv parents say no, maybe you don’t see it now but you will see in the future.

And no the attributes between parent and friend are not and cannot be the change, and no you can base a parent child relationship as an " educational exchange". What you are suggesting is similar to putting a blind person to guide the way of a person with 20/20 vision. How can a blind guide properly if they can’t see the road? Children don’t have the experience, maturity, education and wisdom necessary to enter into an educational exchange with a parent. Now that doesn’t mean that parents don’t have to listen to their kids,of course you have to listen to your kids but the kid is not your equal. The kind of parenting you are proposing is exactly the kind that the culture of death promotes which only creates little tyrans.

 

[CarrieSpooner]

I’m not asking this to be offensive, but how old are you? Your perspective seems as though it’s coming from someone younger, who identifies more with being a child in the family than an adult who is responsible for preserving and strengthening a marriage while nurturing and guiding children.

No one is suggesting being selfish, or not taking care of children, or giving them the love and attention that they need and deserve. What we are saying is that parents cannot do that effectively if they are not properly tending to their own relationship first.

One of the most common causes of divorce is that a couple, or even just one spouse, will throw themselves completely into parenting and neglect their marital bond. Women tend to take all of their love, passion, and commitment and transfer it to their child from their husbands, and that isn’t right or fair to anyone, the child included. How many new empty-nesters end up looking at each other the day their last child leaves for college and realize that they have nothing to talk about, that they don’t know each other anymore? Far too many.

You keep posting links, church documents, statements made by Popes, etc. But none of what you have posted contradicts the notion that the spousal relationship comes first, and that by putting that relationship first you actually benefit your children tremendously.

I’m 35. I understand what most people are saying. I have not suggested that anyone implied the thought of neglecting children. I disagree with the idea that we must attend to the spousal relationship first once we have children. We must literally attend to it first in the order of events but after that, no.

I disagree that such is a common cause for divorce. It may be viewed that way because one spouse is neglecting the other and then the spouse reaches to the child to fill the void. My husband was on the unfortunate end of that experience as a child and it has had devastating consequences. However, his parents relationship remains the same today. The husband still neglects the wife. She simply has no one else to pour into now so the pouring into the child was a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

On the other hand, when I had my first child I found that my husband viewed my pouring of myself into our child as a threat to our marriage. After doing extensive research into the science of parenting, anthropology and now Church teachings, we both discovered that this view was the result of social conditioning. He changed. He began to pour into our children too and our marriage was strengthened tenfold. The Church teaches very much about self-donative love. We must not miss our opportunity to be sanctified through that self sacrifice towards our children. Our world is very much missing out on this and the result of that has harmed society a great deal.

Yes, I keep posting Church documents and each speaks to the mutual self giving and the order towards the needy first. This is a contradiction to what has been said by the majority in this thread. Beyond that, I have repeatedly asked for Church documents that support the idea that the spousal relationship comes first and no one has provided any. The documents I have shared do not make any such claim.

 

[CarrieSpooner]

Just like BlueEyedLady said, i think you are talking from the point of view of a very young person who is not a parent and lacks experience. Yes, I do remember perfectly when I was told no as a child and I already walked on the shoes of a child. But I grew up became a parent and learned why my adults did what they did. There is a very important reason as to whyv parents say no, maybe you don’t see it now but you will see in the future.

And no the attributes between parent and friend are not and cannot be the change, and no you can base a parent child relationship as an " educational exchange". What you are suggesting is similar to putting a blind person to guide the way of a person with 20/20 vision. How can a blind guide properly if they can’t see the road? Children don’t have the experience, maturity, education and wisdom necessary to enter into an educational exchange with a parent. Now that doesn’t mean that parents don’t have to listen to their kids,of course you have to listen to your kids but the kid is not your equal. The kind of parenting you are proposing is exactly the kind that the culture of death promotes which only creates little tyrans.

When a person resorts to insulting another person instead of offering valid evidence to support their claim, it’s usually because they are unable to do so. Is it possible that this young person can teach you something? The Church teaches that there is an educational exchange between parent and child rather than what you previously suggested. Please read from the Church and I suspect your position will change. I would also suggest studying the science of parenting.

 

[marymary1975]

Are you married? I am really getting a sense that you’re not, and that’s ok, but I think that’s why your perspective is so different. When you do get married and you realize just how much relies on you and your spouse being as strong, committed, and happy as you can be, and how well you function as a team flows from that, you’ll see firsthand how and why it is so much better for children to be put after the spouse, than put before.

 

[CarrieSpooner]

Just like BlueEyedLady said, i think you are talking from the point of view of a very young person who is not a parent and lacks experience. Yes, I do remember perfectly when I was told no as a child and I already walked on the shoes of a child. But I grew up became a parent and learned why my adults did what they did. There is a very important reason as to whyv parents say no, maybe you don’t see it now but you will see in the future.

And no the attributes between parent and friend are not and cannot be the change, and no you can base a parent child relationship as an " educational exchange". What you are suggesting is similar to putting a blind person to guide the way of a person with 20/20 vision. How can a blind guide properly if they can’t see the road? Children don’t have the experience, maturity, education and wisdom necessary to enter into an educational exchange with a parent. Now that doesn’t mean that parents don’t have to listen to their kids,of course you have to listen to your kids but the kid is not your equal. The kind of parenting you are proposing is exactly the kind that the culture of death promotes which only creates little tyrans.

I will also add that I have allowed my children to teach me and it has changed my life and showed me the glory of God in ways I never thought possible. I have done so many things here with my children that you and others suggest would make them tyrants and the myths just didn’t hold up. My children didn’t become tyrants. They became more open to the knowledge and love of Christ. They become more obedient, more trusting, more giving and above all, more charitable. My children are my equal. That doesn’t mean he has the same role within our family but they are equal nonetheless. What I realized is that sometimes adults are blind and that there is a certain sanctification that comes along with self-donative parenting. There is a great lesson in holiness if we humble ourselves to it instead of elevating ourselves over it.

 

[CarrieSpooner]

Are you married? I am really getting a sense that you’re not, and that’s ok, but I think that’s why your perspective is so different. When you do get married and you realize just how much relies on you and your spouse being as strong, committed, and happy as you can be, and how well you function as a team flows from that, you’ll see firsthand how and why it is so much better for children to be put after the spouse, than put before.

Yes, I am married. I have been married for 13 years and have 3 living children. I have found through experience what contributes to a healthy marriage. The biggest revelation has been realizing that we have to work to heal from our own upbringings. Most people go into their marriages with a certain level of brokenness. My husband and I have realized this very early in our marriage and it led to an extensive study of brain science and more. The devastating effects of a disordered upbringing helped us both to realize all the more how important the parent/child relationship is. Sometimes things are the opposite of how they seem. The perfect example is that it is in giving that we receive. Yet so many who need, seek to receive not give. I have often been guilty of this myself. We don’t realize how much we can heal and receive through proper order of mutual self-giving within the family dynamic, meeting the needs of the most needy first instead of some sort of simplistic and artificial hierarchy of relative powers.

 

[marymary1975]

When a person resorts to insulting another person instead of offering valid evidence to support their claim, it’s usually because they are unable to do so. Is it possible that this young person can teach you something? The Church teaches that there is an educational exchange between parent and child rather than what you previously suggested. Please read from the Church and I suspect your position will change. I would also suggest studying the science of parenting.

Insult??? I haven’t used any insults. Second if you are not married and do not have kids, withregard to the subject of marriage and parenting, you can teach me as much as a pre-med student can teach a heart surgeon on how to do open heart surgery. I do not mneed to study any science on parenting because I already parented a child who is a pre teen, who by the way does excellent on all areas and always gets complimented on how good she is and she is quite proud of her so obviously I did something right, don’t you think? I don’t need to study any science, now talking and getting advice from successful parents with teenagers and adults, that I want but someone who has zero experience in marriage or parenting can’t teach someone who has been there already and gone back.

 

[CarrieSpooner]

Yes, I am married. I have been married for 13 years and have 3 living children. I have found through experience what contributes to a healthy marriage. The biggest revelation has been realizing that we have to work to heal from our own upbringings. Most people go into their marriages with a certain level of brokenness. My husband and I have realized this very early in our marriage and it led to an extensive study of brain science and more. The devastating effects of a disordered upbringing helped us both to realize all the more how important the parent/child relationship is. Sometimes things are the opposite of how they seem. The perfect example is that it is in giving that we receive. Yet so many who need, seek to receive not give. I have often been guilty of this myself. We don’t realize how much we can heal and receive through proper order of mutual self-giving within the family dynamic, meeting the needs of the most needy first instead of some sort of simplistic and artificial hierarchy of relative powers.

^and even though I referred to our upbringings as “disordered”, from outside appearances, all seemed fine and dandy. Neither of our parents ever divorced and both are still married today. I can only imagine how much more severe the deficits could have been.

 

[CarrieSpooner]

Insult??? I haven’t used any insults. Second if you are not married and do not have kids, withregard to the subject of marriage and parenting, you can teach me as much as a pre-med student can teach a heart surgeon on how to do open heart surgery. I do not mneed to study any science on parenting because I already parented a child who is a pre teen, who by the way does excellent on all areas and always gets complimented on how good she is and she is quite proud of her so obviously I did something right, don’t you think? I don’t need to study any science, now talking and getting advice from successful parents with teenagers and adults, that I want but someone who has zero experience in marriage or parenting can’t teach someone who has been there already and gone back.

I am married and do have kids but even if I were not, it wouldn’t mean I couldn’t teach you anything on the subject. I have learned a great deal about parenting and marriage from Nuns and Priests who were never married and had no children.

And yes, it’s insulting to tell someone they seem young and inexperienced. I simply have a different perspective.