Married men and women as friends

[iHeartGrumpyCat]

Some couples do go that route. A bit far, IMHO, but then they tend to do couple-to-couple socializing, so they actually do have opposite-sex friends.

That’s another thing that makes this odd. We’ve always been a very nuclear family: Dad, Mom & Kids, and haven’t socialized a lot with other people other than family.

That’s another thing that makes this a red flag to me.

 

[Xantippe]

iHeartGrumpyCat said:

"Yuck, you have no idea how I treat my wife.

“Don’t be a dope.”

Of course I don’t know how you treat your wife–we’re on the internet. All I know if how you’re treating me–and it’s–shall we say–somewhat unsatisfactory. Also, you talk of “protecting” your wife from this man (which is a weird and somewhat disrespectful thing for an adult man to say of an fully functioning adult woman who isn’t being physically threatened) and you mention you have other marital issues.

Under the circumstances, is it really so out of line to suggest you be nicer to your wife? I think just about everybody could be nicer to their spouse (including me). I also think that your belief that you can’t be nicer to your wife is not a great sign.

It’s just that you sound like you’re trying to guard her like a harem eunuch with a toothache. That’s not going to work.

“Oh, and for those of you who think I’m overly suspicious, philandering runs in my family. My father was a cheater, my brother is a cheater, so I’m very sensitive to this issue.”

That’s a reason for you to watch you like a hawk, not a reason for you to watch your wife like a hawk.

“That’s another thing that makes this odd. We’ve always been a very nuclear family: Dad, Mom & Kids, and haven’t socialized a lot with other people other than family.”

Does your wife like that? I personally would find it stifling, and I’m an introvert. Maybe your wife needs more of a social life (i.e. a social life with more people than just this guy). Work on it.

Easter Joy said:

“It feels icky to think you have to “compete” for first place in your spouse’s attention. That kind of wrecks the pleasure of being good to them just because it gives the two of you pleasure, don’t you think?”

Right.

The OP seems to have more than a little Othello in him, though.

 

[MJJean]

That’s another thing that makes this odd. We’ve always been a very nuclear family: Dad, Mom & Kids, and haven’t socialized a lot with other people other than family.

That’s another thing that makes this a red flag to me.

Did it ever cross your mind that your wife may feel socially isolated because you, as a couple, haven’t been social on a regular basis with people other than family and she needs to branch out and form new friendships?

And, yes, you’re making way too big of a deal about the water. Also, I am pretty sure the wife really was making a joke and probably said it when she did as an effort to make you laugh and start a conversation.

With your philandering family history you seem a bit unnaturally obsessed with the subject and you seem to think of your wife more as property that needs to be guarded than a fully formed adult human being with social needs that have nothing to do with affairs. Please seriously consider seeking counseling. If you keep going on like this you’re going to drive yourself crazy and take your wife with you.

 

[MJJean]

Have you observed any changes in your wife’s behavior especially in “agreements” and “dissagreements” between you and her since she met this ‘friend’?

Not really. But I don’t think my wife is the problem here, so that doesn’t surprise me.

No, your wife is not the problem here. You are. You’re acting like a crazy person.

OP, I am not sure what you’re looking for here; you clearly are uncomfortable with this man’s behavior.

Ammo…

I realize you’re probably trying to inject some humor, but come on now! Are you listening to yourself? Your wife has an older married friend who shares her hobby and you’re even jokingly talking about ammo?

You aren’t asking her to cease all contact with this guy; just not to accept gifts from him, right?

Correct.

Its an old lens, some dvd’s and a picture or two of your child… Really not a big deal

Why are you feeling so insecure about this friendship? How is your marriage?

I don’t see anything suspicious about people who are clearly into photography taking pictures at the same time you are. Even your wife was taking pictures. Regarding the gifts, some people would rather give something they no longer need to others that would appreciate it than sell it.

The marriage is not as strong as it could or should be. I’m working on that.

I didn’t have a problem with him taking pictures, just printing out poster sized photos of my daughter. Seems a bit forward.

Maybe the marriage isn’t as strong as it could be because you really don’t trust your wife or anyone else. And maybe because your paranoia and insecurity are driving your wife batty and making her feel suffocated?

And, really, the man took a few pictures and blew some of them up as gifts to the subjects parent(s). That’s pretty standard. People know parents like pictures of their kids and making a gift of some nice shots isn’t out of the ordinary. Especially for hobby photographers.

Individually, none of these gestures is out of line. However, they do add up to quite a pile. He might genuinely just have fatherly feelings toward your wife. Or not.

I say not.

Because you’re paranoid, have trust issues, insecurity issues, and really need to seek counseling?

 

[MJJean]

I think you’re really, honestly, seriously, in need of counseling. You’re overreacting.

Why let something go to waste or sell/donate it when someone you know could use it?

I’m pretty sure if I gave something to a co-worker, male or female, that I could have sold for $100 or more, which would put food on the table, my wife would not be happy.

And funnily enough, she doesn’t use the lens as she doesn’t use the camera it fits. Not that it matters, of course.

If your finances are such that the sale of the lens would make a difference, then that is a reasonable response. But if this gentleman can afford to give away an object he doesn’t want or need, so what? and hobbyists do tend to have accessories they use in phases

I think this is one of those petty jealousies and a case where someone needs to get over themselves.

There is nothing petty or trivial about someone insinuating themselves in your marriage.

He’s not insinuating himself into your marriage. He is being a friend. There is a very distinct difference. Again, paranoid, insecure, overreaction.

Not to mention you either trust your wife or you don’t…

I trust my wife. I don’t trust him.

You don’t need to trust him. If you trust your wife then you know she isn’t going to do anything improper with anyone regardless of the other persons intentions.

If my husband insisted that I stop being friends with someone because he was insecure and somewhat jealous I’d be seriously upset.

I’m not asking her to stop being friends with him, just that he not cross any lines.

He really hasn’t crossed any lines. And lines and boundaries in your wife’s friendships are hers to set and enforce.

 

[MJJean]

Your wife seems to like this guys attention, and that is a problem for you.

Agreed

Ummm, friends interact and give each other attention. That’s what friends do.

The first thing you should do is get to know him.

I think the first thing he should have done was get to know the husband of the woman he was planning on befriending.
You do realize your wife is an adult human with the right to decide who her friends are without them being approved by you?
Is it possible that this guy is just thoughtful and really not trying to outdo you?

It’s possible, but I don’t believe it.

You simply don’t get it. You don’t believe this man isn’t trying to outdo you because you have some serious trust and insecurity issues that if not addressed could very well destroy your marriage. maybe you even, on some level, know that your insecurity and jealousy are pushing your wife away from you. Insecurity and jealousy are NOT attractive traits.

But then I saw that you had started a thread awhile ago about how you don’t like men hugging your wife.

Yes, that is another boundary I don’t like seeing crossed. As I think I explained in that thread, I don’t go around hugging other mens’ wives, I don’t expect them to be hugging mine. Relatives and friends of the family excepted, of course.

If you don’t think hugging is appropriate, don’t you go hugging anyone. But your wife seems to be a huggy person and she has the right to decide if she thinks hugging is appropriate for her.

The husband does know this guy and has said that the guy treats him respectfully.

And that means what to me? That he’s going to be nice to me as he’s poaching my wife? Not that I’m going to let that happen, or that he’s even trying to do that, but…I don’t really know him.

He’s done nothing to you nor done anything most reasonable people would see as untoward. Bottom line, this man is your wife’s friend. Do you or do you not trust her judgement?

If my husband can’t fix some random thing because he is working or doesn’t know how and said thing needs to be fixed now, I see nothing wrong with calling a male friend for some know how or some muscle.

Holy moly, I would think your husband would call for himself.

Why? I am a fully formed grown adult. I am capable of assessing a situation and making a phone call.

What red flags is he seeing?

Gifting. Lots of it. Attention. Lots of it. More than I would expect from a co-worker type friend.

The “gifts” are either hand me downs or very trivial. The attention is called friendship.

Also, I have a feeling that this whole thread wouldn’t exist if this friend were a female behaving the same way.

Haha, that is funny. Of course it would be different.

So, your wife is capable of seeing a human for who they are and not the shape of their genitals, but you are not??

As if we, as humans, aren’t more than our genitals.

Odd you feel that way after your experience. You obviously don’t know men very well.

I know men very well. I was well aware what kind of man I married, but i got pregnant so I married him. And the experiences I had with my ex is exactly why I see nothing wrong here. I know how a cheater behaves and this ain’t it.

The OP believes that all men are just out for what they can get from women. And that his wife needs him to protect her from all of those awful men.

Not all of them, but a lot. And, uh, it’s my job to protect her. Duh!

Do you not see your wife as a capable adult woman? She doesn’t need your protection. She’s grown. And if she were to need assistance with a situation I am sure she would ask.

I mean this kindly, OP, you need to work on your jealousy issues

My wife works with men who treat her with respect and maintain and appropriate distance physically and emotionally and they don’t bother me at all. Odd that…
Not odd at all. But you need to realize there is a distinct difference with people at work who you are not really friends with and actual, personal, friendships.

Well, yes, but no one is helpless in the face of temptation. There is a certain point where one or both participants in a budding affair realize where things are headed. A trustworthy spouse backs away and ends the association. An untrustworthy spouse lets things progress to an affair.

And a good husband keeps a weather eye and kicks arse and takes names when necessary.

Again, do you or do you not trust your wife? If you trust her, you don’t need to keep an eye on anything. And kicking arse and taking names sounds a bit…unstable. A platonic friendship is NOT a kick arse and take names situation. You sound an awful lot like a man who sees his wife as a helpless piece of property and not a fully formed human being with all the rights that come with that status.

Honestly, I am seeing more red flags with you than with your wife and her friend. The lack of respect for your wife as a person able to order her own life and make her own choices, the seeing her as helpless property to be guarded and defended, the lack of trust, the insecurity and jealousy, the attempts to limit her social life and expressions of affection… In most cases, that list of traits makes a man seem controlling and possibly abusive. If not physically, maybe emotionally.

Suck it up, see that you really do have issues, put on your big boy pants, and seek help.

 

[Irishmom2]

Honestly, I am seeing more red flags with you than with your wife and her friend. The lack of respect for your wife as a person able to order her own life and make her own choices, the seeing her as helpless property to be guarded and defended, the lack of trust, the insecurity and jealousy, the attempts to limit her social life and expressions of affection… In most cases, that list of traits makes a man seem controlling and possibly abusive. If not physically, maybe emotionally.

Suck it up, see that you really do have issues, put on your big boy pants, and seek help.

MJJean, your tone is really becoming difficult to read. It is very clear that you think the OP is the problem, but why continue to argue with him about who is right or wrong here? I don’t think you are going to change his mind any more than he is going to change yours.

And the use of colors is becoming very hard to keep track of for me.

 

[Aggie414]

I have to say that I find the OP’s attitude very difficult to swallow. I am a single person and I have several married couple friends – that I am friends with both the husband and wife and I am always careful of how things could be interpreted – for example, I do not go to lunch with married men unless they are part of a group – like co-workers or such. But I could not stand to be married to a man who questioned EVERY move I made, every man I spoke with. You sound extremely insecure; and if you’re not careful, you’re going to drive a wedge in your marriage that could be very detrimental.

Based on how you’ve replied to others posters who didn’t agree with your position, I’m sure you’ll blast me – and that’s fine. But I do have to admit that reading some of your posts, it’s times like that that I’m glad I’m single!!!

 

[MJJean]

MJJean, your tone is really becoming difficult to read. It is very clear that you think the OP is the problem, but why continue to argue with him about who is right or wrong here? I don’t think you are going to change his mind any more than he is going to change yours.

And the use of colors is becoming very hard to keep track of for me.

The use of color was the only way I could figure to reply to his replies.

I suppose I continue to “argue” the points he makes because more than a few of us are saying the same things and he is just refusing to see that he really does have a problem. And it is a serious problem because it could very well push his wife farther and farther away from him. He seems like a decent guy and his wife seems like a lovely lady. It’d be sad to see their marriage damaged or ended when he could prevent it by simply seeking help.

But you are right. I am pretty sure continuing to post will not do any good. I did my best, gave him some things to think about, offered a point of view, and now all anyone but the OP can do is wish him the best.

 

[Irishmom2]

But you are right. I am pretty sure continuing to post will not do any good. I did my best, gave him some things to think about, offered a point of view, and now all anyone but the OP can do is wish him the best.

 

[Evania]

The use of color was the only way I could figure to reply to his replies.

I suppose I continue to “argue” the points he makes because more than a few of us are saying the same things and he is just refusing to see that he really does have a problem. And it is a serious problem because it could very well push his wife farther and farther away from him. He seems like a decent guy and his wife seems like a lovely lady. It’d be sad to see their marriage damaged or ended when he could prevent it by simply seeking help.

But you are right. I am pretty sure continuing to post will not do any good. I did my best, gave him some things to think about, offered a point of view, and now all anyone but the OP can do is wish him the best.

MJJean,

I reread these posts and although I disagreed with you early on, I truly am seeing your point. I hope your advice to the OP is heeded.

 

[EasterJoy]

That’s another thing that makes this odd. We’ve always been a very nuclear family: Dad, Mom & Kids, and haven’t socialized a lot with other people other than family.

That’s another thing that makes this a red flag to me.

Consider changing that. Your kids are going to graduate from high school before you know it, and you two are going to need more than just each other to lean on. I’m not suggesting you make Mr. PhotoOp and his wife your new best friends, but that you do socialize with other couples and their families.

Also, consider what an appropriate friendship between your wife and the men in your social circle will look like. Ask her what she thinks they ought to look like, with the recognition that of course your relationships with other women will be within the same parameters.

I think if the two of you agree on boundaries and what sorts of things make each of you uncomfortable, that is where you are going to solve this. After all, it does not matter one bit what kind of boundaries any of the rest of us think you two ought to have around your marriage. What matters is that the two of you have thought about and come to some degree of agreement about how you are going to socialize with other people as a married couple, both during those times when you are both present and at those times when one of you is not present. Maybe you won’t be 110% happy with what your wife is willing to agree to, but based on your wife’s reaction to the little thing who flirted with you, I suspect you’ll find a common ground that is good for both the goose and the gander.

That is the goal. Don’t worry about what anybody else says. You will find happily-married couples here reporting everything from “we don’t have any one-on-one friendships with members of the opposite sex” to “of course he has his female friends and she has her male friends, what else would anyone do?”

Quit looking for an outside authority to back you up on this. Sure, there are studies and there are the things the marriage experts will tell you, but those are for the “typical marriage,” which no single couple actually has. The way you each feel and see this issue is authority enough, provided you also see the other as an authority on it. Instead of looking beyond the two of you, look for an overarching principle that you both want the other to abide by with members of the opposite sex, with your support, friendship, and fidelity to each other as your #1 priority. Speak from your heart, really listen as she speaks from hers, find what works for you two, work out some means by which you can talk about things that make only one of you uncomfortable, and the rest of us can go jump in a lake.

 

[EasterJoy]

Did it ever cross your mind that your wife may feel socially isolated because you, as a couple, haven’t been social on a regular basis with people other than family and she needs to branch out and form new friendships?

And, yes, you’re making way too big of a deal about the water. Also, I am pretty sure the wife really was making a joke and probably said it when she did as an effort to make you laugh and start a conversation.

With your philandering family history you seem a bit unnaturally obsessed with the subject and you seem to think of your wife more as property that needs to be guarded than a fully formed adult human being with social needs that have nothing to do with affairs. Please seriously consider seeking counseling. If you keep going on like this you’re going to drive yourself crazy and take your wife with you.

Anyone who thinks that innocent friendships never become unintended sexual affairs is extremely naïve. How many people who have affairs with their best friend’s husband or wife was actually enough of a consciousless sociopath to have had that intention in the beginning? Yet we know it does happen, and the result is a lot worse than wrapping your car around a tree. Infidelities can ruin lives–not just married lives, but childhoods. They need to be actively avoided.

Yes, we also know both husbands and wives who have driven a wedge into their marriages by handling their jealousy over third persons showing attention to their spouses. That is a real danger, and it ought not be overlooked. There are even those who, suspected all the time when they have done little, decide that they may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb. It has happened.

IOW, the OP ought to deal with this issue with an awareness that there is a ditch on both sides of the road, and the devil would be just as happy to see his marriage go headlong into either one. Communication and solidarity are how you keep the vehicle on the narrow way that leads to a happy lifelong marriage, not steering as hard as you can either to the left or to the right. If steering hard to one direction is all it took to find the narrow way, after all, it would not be difficult to find it!

 

[Jessie5000]

Hi, All-

My wife has a handful of people working under her as contractors. They’re not highly paid and most of them do it as a hobby.

One of them is male and retired from the Civil Service.

This person, as well as my wife, both use cameras as part of the job. About a year ago he gave my wife a telephoto lens “that he no longer needed.”

Online, this lens sells for $200 new. The lens he gave her might be used, but it looks NIB. There are no signs of wear on the lens.

Interestingly, a few months before that I gave my wife a similar lens for her birthday. The one I gave her was also new, but was non-OEM and probably of lower quality.

A few months after that my wife dressed our teenage daughter in a period dress for a Victorian tea.

The contractor, my wife and myself were all taking pictures at the tea. I posed my daughter against a nice backdrop and started taking pictures of her. A few seconds later the contractor was also taking pictures (as was my wife).

About a month after the tea I was at my in-laws’ and saw three large photos (11" x 14" or larger) of my daughter, in that shot, hanging on the wall, that he had taken and printed on his photo printer.

Lately he’s been copying DVDs for my wife and our son.

My wife says he’s just a friend and is “just showing off”.

I say he’s insinuating himself in my marriage and my family and his attentions and gifts are wildly inappropriate.

Am I wrong?

Who knows if you are right? Maybe there is a bit of jealousy. It could be that he is a kind man and can well afford to give such gifts. Until he proves his actions are of ill intent, look at him as a good person. When we open our homes and families to others we often have an opportunity to help others and enlarge our circle of friends. You might just be missing out on the fact this man could be a wonderful friend to you as well. Trust your wife.

 

[iHeartGrumpyCat]

iHeartGrumpyCat said:

Of course I don’t know how you treat your wife–we’re on the internet. All I know if how you’re treating me–and it’s–shall we say–somewhat unsatisfactory.

Sorry, your highness. But you were commenting on something you know nothing about. I call that trolling.

I will take such silliness from my wife. You don’t have those privileges.

Also, you talk of “protecting” your wife from this man (which is a weird and somewhat disrespectful thing for an adult man to say of an fully functioning adult woman who isn’t being physically threatened

Perhaps I should have said “protecting our marriage”. And as for protecting my wife physically, of course it’s my job. Men tend to be stronger, tend to be the aggressors. It’s a man’s job to protect his family.

Stick that in your feminist pipe and smoke it!

It’s just that you sound like you’re trying to guard her like a harem eunuch with a toothache. That’s not going to work.

Neither is her having an affair. That’s not happening now and I intend to make sure it doesn’t in the future.

“Oh, and for those of you who think I’m overly suspicious, philandering runs in my family. My father was a cheater, my brother is a cheater, so I’m very sensitive to this issue.”

That’s a reason for you to watch you like a hawk, not a reason for you to watch your wife like a hawk.

As I’ve already said, that behavior is not in my make up. I am not a cheater. Praise be to God. I couldn’t be more different than my father and my brother. Again, Praise be to God.

And I’m not worried about my wife, I’m worried about the other guy. He’s the one doing the poaching.

“That’s another thing that makes this odd. We’ve always been a very nuclear family: Dad, Mom & Kids, and haven’t socialized a lot with other people other than family.”

Does your wife like that? I personally would find it stifling, and I’m an introvert. Maybe your wife needs more of a social life (i.e. a social life with more people than just this guy). Work on it.

I think she prefers it that way. I have in the past suggested we cultivate relationships with other people, but she prefers to maintain a distance. But then we’ve been focused on raising a passel of kids and that has been our focus, as it should have been.

 

[Lorelei12]

Anyone who thinks that innocent friendships never become unintended sexual affairs is extremely naïve. How many people who have affairs with their best friend’s husband or wife was actually enough of a consciousless sociopath to have had that intention in the beginning? Yet we know it does happen, and the result is a lot worse than wrapping your car around a tree. Infidelities can ruin lives–not just married lives, but childhoods. They need to be actively avoided.

Yes, we also know both husbands and wives who have driven a wedge into their marriages by handling their jealousy over third persons showing attention to their spouses. That is a real danger, and it ought not be overlooked. There are even those who, suspected all the time when they have done little, decide that they may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb. It has happened.

IOW, the OP ought to deal with this issue with an awareness that there is a ditch on both sides of the road, and the devil would be just as happy to see his marriage go headlong into either one. Communication and solidarity are how you keep the vehicle on the narrow way that leads to a happy lifelong marriage, not steering as hard as you can either to the left or to the right. If steering hard to one direction is all it took to find the narrow way, after all, it would not be difficult to find it!

This is probably the best response on this thread.

OP, in your last thread you mentioned that you and your wife do disagree about where the boundaries should be in your marriage. That’s something to continue working out with her. Because this is such a recurring problem, and because you say that you do trust your wife, consider that your attitude may be at least a part of the issue. You admit that there’s a cheating problem in your own family of origin, and that can be enough to make anyone paranoid when there’s no reason to be (and I’m not even saying you don’t have a reason). Be careful not to punish your wife for your family’s mistakes. Maybe if you take a step back when you witness something, take a breath, and ask yourself whether it’s worth fixating on or not, your wife will be able to see that when you do bring something up with her, it really is concerning to you and she might take it more seriously.

 

[Evania]

I am reporting the OP to the moderators. It is against forum rules to name call. If you didn’t want advice, don’t ask for it. You don’t sound emotionally stable enough to handle it anyway. If your wife does end up with someone else, it will be because of behavior like this.

 

[iHeartGrumpyCat]

The use of color was the only way I could figure to reply to his replies.

I suppose I continue to “argue” the points he makes because more than a few of us are saying the same things and he is just refusing to see that he really does have a problem.

According to my count three of you are saying I’m wrong while thirteen people agree with me or see my point.

There, literally, are just a “few” of you saying the same things.

And it is a serious problem because it could very well push his wife farther and farther away from him. He seems like a decent guy and his wife seems like a lovely lady. It’d be sad to see their marriage damaged or ended when he could prevent it by simply seeking help.

But you are right. I am pretty sure continuing to post will not do any good. I did my best, gave him some things to think about, offered a point of view, and now all anyone but the OP can do is wish him the best.

 

[EasterJoy]

I am reporting the OP to the moderators. It is against forum rules to name call. If you didn’t want advice, don’t ask for it. You don’t sound emotionally stable enough to handle it anyway. If your wife does end up with someone else, it will be because of behavior like this.

Did you really write “You don’t sound emotionally stable enough to handle it anyway” in the same post where you’re complaining that the OP is making overly personal attacks? And then did you threaten him that his wife was going to leave him if he didn’t see things your way, and it would be his fault?

Really?

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I feel very bad for the OPs wife. He doesn’t respect her as a human at all. He says he trusts her, but he doesn’t seem to. If he did he would trust her to put a stop to any romantic or sexual advances.

If he were trying to steal his wife, the OP nor the friends wife would be included in their friendship.

Furthermore, the odds that he’s trying to throw away his marriage to sleep with a married woman are very slim. The OP has shown in the past that he doesn’t want his wife to have male friends and that he doesn’t trust her. His attitude and jealousy will be what ruins his marriage.