Married men may be considered for the priesthood?

[Anicette]

There is already parishes with no resident priests. And parishes regroupments due to lack of faithfull, money youth, families and priests.

It is not a possible future. it is now.

And ordained married deacons to the priesthood will not resolve the problem, as the uderline problem is a lack in the transmission of the faith and renewal of gerenation. It is a faith and institutional crisis and detachment. the very number of children catechized is one exemple.

And with the cut of faithfull that will happen in the very near future due to the death of more pious generation, the number of priests will be suffisant in many parts of the western world.

 

[Maximilian75]

In my parish, there is one priest. In a neighboring parish, there is no priest.
We have Mass once a day, except for Fridays and Sundays.

This is not endemic of the entire Church. As (name removed by moderator) said

We are the Church, what we all believes is important.

I mean, to an extent, but we all need to remember that the Church is not a democracy. She is a monarchy, governed by Christ.

Change is possible. Anything is possible with God.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Change for the sake of change is very, very dangerous.

 

[7_Sorrows]

we have priests from India, the Phillipines,
Africa in our diocese.

 

[TheLittleLady]

The alternative, even in the United States, can be a priest shared with a parish a good distance away who simply cannot be everywhere at once

I’m not sure where you live, but, here priests do help out fellow priests. There is an area that covers a large geographical distance, when one priest is on vacation we have to call someone who is up to an hour away. For emergency death calls, an hour is usually too far.

On the other hand, some priests are responsible for as many as 5 parishes!

Remember, one of the very first group of Pastoral Provision priests is in my town as is a PP priest ordained in the past 10 years. I see first hand what life is like in a parish with a Mrs. Father.

Also, while various men have different reactions, the problem that I witness first hand is “regular unmarried” priests getting time to themselves. They often have to leave town to get a breath because they long for some time alone.

 

[TheLittleLady]

The parishioners have different expectations, in my experience.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

When I visit my family where I grow up, I go to the church there. It is in the Midwest and serves students in a college. This church is basically a brand new church that is really state of the art. It cost well over $1,000,000. It comfortably seats about 300 and usually 200 attend. It was completely paid off with relative ease partly using donations in about 10 years. Money has never been an issue. The parish is, in fact, loaded.

Your parish is an anomaly. Many parishes are not doing well, financially, because they do not happen to be located in a well-off area. The poor people who live there, many of whom are often elderly and have been going to that church their whole life and would have difficulty driving some distance to get to church elsewhere, still need to go to Mass.

 

[babochka]

If your only priest is a married man, the parishioners have to adapt to a priest who will not always be there to give last rites or to answer your calls. He will have commitments to his wife and family that must be met.

I’m wondering… Do most parishioners in the US now enjoy a priest who personally answers their phone calls and is always available for last rites? Because I have heard story after story on CAF and in real life of people who reached out to the church in time of need and never even got a return phone call. A single priest, married or celibate, cannot be personally attentive to the individual spiritual needs of a parish of thousands, at every moment. It isn’t possible.

On the other hand, my married pastor is always reachable and would leave an important family event in a heartbeat if he were needed to administer last rites. This isn’t because he is, as a married priest, as somehow better. It simply has to do with the size of his flock.

 

[Maximilian75]

I can’t imagine married priests being pushed into full-time pastorate…

I could imagine them being something more like permanent deacons, helping out when possible, but the parish still having a celibate primary pastor, who would direct the married priest.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

is always available for last rites?

There is generally always a priest available for last rites in an emergency situation. The one time I called for one because the doctors had just told me that my mom in ICU was perhaps going to check out at any moment, he was there within a half hour.

I am sure that perhaps there were situations where the priest had two conflicting emergencies or was ill or for whateve reason didn’t make it in time. They are human. But I know when it’s “last rites” they try very hard. They have a priority list and “dying person” is pretty much at the top of the list. An ordinary call to make an appointment for something, maybe not so much.

Having said that, given the vast number of responsibilities that priests have, I do not see how allowing priests to have even more responsibilities to their family on top of that is going to help the situation. And then we will have to be dealing with priests who are having marital trouble, priests who are getting divorced, priests whose kids are getting picked up by the police, etc. it’s not a pretty picture given that our Catholic priest is not just a guy who administers the budget and preaches, he is the guy who stands in for Jesus Christ.

If we need more married men involved, I think the answer is more deacons. They can handle almost all the functions of a priest and they can be married with kids too. And if we are having a hard time recruiting married men to be deacons because they are too busy with their children or whatever, then what makes you think the situation would be different for a priest?

 

[babochka]

How about “father of an extended nuclear family”?

Frankly, I see this as an ideal. Isn’t this how it should be? Isn’t this what the apostles were to their flocks? Have you read St Paul’s letters, full of affection for his people? We call them Father, right?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I agree with you that the priest should be father of an extended nuclear family of Church members.
Unfortunately, if he is married and has children, then his absolute first priority should be Mrs. Priest and the kids.

Even if Mrs. Priest agrees that she will always take a back seat to the Church members, because she is supportive of her husband’s commitment and also is trying to live a Christian ideal of putting others first (and I wonder how many wives would actually be willing to be that self-sacrificing over the long term), it’s a bit much to expect children, who didn’t ask to be born into a priest’s family, to make that sort of commitment (and I can see Mrs. Priest getting pretty wound up over the kids not being put first, way more than she might get wound up over her own needs not coming first).

Every other kid on the block has a dad who puts his kid as Priority #1, or if he’s not, he’s clearly going against society’s rules and he should be putting his kid as Priority #1.
Priest’s kid would either have to take a back seat, or the church members whom the priest is supposed to serve would have to.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Death calls are one example.

Imagine a man who is responsible for running one or two businesses (if there is a parish school). Board meetings, personnel issues, community commitments, committee meetings, administration, every business owner knows what that is like. They struggle to juggle that work and family life.

Now let’s add the priestly, sacramental duties on top of that. These men are true superheroes and their families will sometimes lose out.

Unless you have been on the other side of the parish office desk, and in a populated place, it is difficult to imagine how many last rites calls come in.

The vast majority are from people who have not darkened the door of a church in many years. When the end nears, they want to repent. These calls come just about every day (and we are not in a big city!)

As you said, the size of the flock makes a difference as well. Small parishes in either small, remote towns or in large areas where there are 6 parishes in a 30 minute radius will have better coverage for death calls.

 

[PetraG]

I’m not sure where you live, but, here priests do help out fellow priests. There is an area that covers a large geographical distance, when one priest is on vacation we have to call someone who is up to an hour away. For emergency death calls, an hour is usually too far.

I live in Oregon. The distances one priest has to cover on a daily basis can be considerable, to put it mildly, particularly in the parishes outside the Willamette Valley (or even in its more remote parts). Every year, there are fewer ordained than there are memorialized at the Mass for priests who have died in the past year. If some of the older men who have served as deacons were to be ordained priests some day in regions such as ours, it would not surprise me. The biggest concern is not that we’d have to come up with the money to give them a salary, but that we’d have to come up with the money to educate them in preparation for a relatively short career. That’s the way it goes, though.

The percentage of Catholics in our state is actually growing even though the percentage of residents who are affiliated with religion generally is dropping. This has a lot to do with our growing Spanish-speaking population. We also have a high number of Filipino Catholics and Korean- and Vietnamese-speaking Catholics, so we need priests who are bilingual, too. At least the number of our faithful is going up; we keep praying that the vocations to the priesthood will surge, too. The number of seminarians has been rising; just not as fast as the population in the pews nor as fast as needed to replace the older priests have died or who cannot serve any more.

 

[ShowersofRoses]

Having said that, given the vast number of responsibilities that priests have, I do not see how allowing priests to have even more responsibilities to their family on top of that is going to help the situation. And then we will have to be dealing with priests who are having marital trouble, priests who are getting divorced, priests whose kids are getting picked up by the police, etc. it’s not a pretty picture given that our Catholic priest is not just a guy who administers the budget and preaches, he is the guy who stands in for Jesus Christ.

Agree completely. I don’t think married priests as the norm is appropriate and should not be encouraged.

If we need more married men involved, I think the answer is more deacons. They can handle almost all the functions of a priest and they can be married with kids too. And if we are having a hard time recruiting married men to be deacons because they are too busy with their children or whatever, then what makes you think the situation would be different for a priest?

Agree with this as well. Encouraging more men to be deacons would be a great help to many rural communities with a severe lack of vocations. All of the deacons I know are holy, dedicated men. More deacons can really help the priest, especially those who are responsible for thousands of souls. Married men who want to serve can do so as deacons, but the priestly ordination should remain only for single, celibate men.

Which reminds me, I think CAF could do a better job of including deacons in our advise to people. I always see people recommended to talk to their priests about their problems and questions. But priests are busy and it can be hard to make an appointment. Deacons can be wonderful advisors. And they are ordained…their advice is vaild. I know in my parish, the deacons are usually the first to step in when counseling or guidance is needed. They are the first to talk to potential converts and answer questions.

In my experience, the deacons can be more personable and easier to talk to. The priests are wonderful but stretched quite thin. Just a thought for everyone to remember that there are others who can help the lost or scrupulous besides the priest.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Interestingly, St Paul discussed this with the Church in Corinth. 1 Cor chapter 7 IIRC

 

[PetraG]

Agree completely. I don’t think married priests as the norm is appropriate and should not be encouraged.

I was talking yesterday to a fellow who left the priesthood, though, too. The risk of burn-out from years of an overwhelming load of work and responsibility if we don’t have enough priests can’t be ignored, either. We’re between a rock and a hard place on vocations to the priesthood. Ordaining pious men from the ranks of the grandparents is not a bad solution.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I always see people recommended to talk to their priests about their problems and questions. But priests are busy and it can be hard to make an appointment. Deacons can be wonderful advisors. And they are ordained…

I have found if you call the parish office, the staff often do a good job of directing your query to whoever is in the best position to help, and it’s often a deacon.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I was talking yesterday to a fellow who left the priesthood, though, too.

If he burned out on responsibilities and left, how would his having a wife have helped him have less responsibilities in order to stay?
Seems like it just would have added to his basket. Unless wife is going to take on the burden of part of the ministry.

 

[ShowersofRoses]

I was talking yesterday to a fellow who left the priesthood, though, too. The risk of burn-out from years of an overwhelming load of work and responsibility if we don’t have enough priests can’t be ignored, either. We’re between a rock and a hard place on vocations to the priesthood.

It is difficult and discouraging, I agree. But as others have said, despite the hardship I don’t think the standard of celibacy for our priests should be set aside. Like I said above, we should encourage more married men with grown children to become deacons, and to continue praying for more vocations. My church says a prayer for vocations after every Mass before the Recessional.

I think so much of the problem is a lack of faithful, consistent faith formation for our young people, and a lack of role models for them to follow. It’s just as much the fault of families as well as their parish. Also, I’m sure more of the laity in the parish could be stepping up and helping the priest to save him from burn-out…but so often no one wants to help volunteer.

 

[ShowersofRoses]

I have found if you call the parish office, the staff often do a good job of directing your query to whoever is in the best position to help, and it’s often a deacon.

Yes, you’re right. And I know that. I just thought a little reminder to all wouldn’t hurt, since I rarely see anyone suggest a deacon for counseling.