Married men may be considered for the priesthood?

[DeniseNY]

True. Over the years, we’ve had lots of threads with complaints about a pastor not being immediately available. Of course, the reasons why he is not available will vary, but I think for some, the issue with married priests is just the unfamiliarity with it, and being scared of something that is different.

 

[babochka]

Honestly, I think Latin Rite priests do an amazing job, considering the priest to parishioner ratio. In more densely populated areas, it is common to have a priest on call by deanery, particularly in the hospital. So an individual priest isn’t really on call 24/7.

I know one Byzantine Rite priest who is frequently called by the hospital after they have exhausted attempts to reach the appropriate Latin Rite priests. Now this is an unusual situation, as he works full-time for the hospital the director of spiritual care and they have a relationship with him, but this isn’t actually part of his job. They just know that he will come when they need him and so they call.

I don’t think that ordaining married men in the Latin Rite is any sort of solution to the problem of priest shortages. I think it would be short-sighted and ultimately damaging to the church.

I just feel the need to defend married priests in this particular instance. It seems like some paint them in an impossible situation; either they aren’t available to their families or they aren’t available to their parishioners.

This simply hasn’t been my experience with married priests. I was in a meeting yesterday, church-related, with six women. Two of them were priests wives, with young and growing families of several children. One of them, was talking about how her young son absolutely loves everything to do with the church. He goes to the church with his father, he follows him around, imitating everything that he does. It was beautiful to hear her describe it. Truly, it made my heart sing. On the other hand, she was talking about planning a vacation. She kind of shrugged, and said that you never really know if a planned vacation will pan out. They go on vacation, but it tends to be more spontaneous. They get away when they can get away. They just make it work. This sort of thing happens in life, to every family. My kids are currently dealing with a similar disappointment. We had planned a family vacation this summer for well over a year. We had cleared everybody summer plans and were very excited. Life happened and we cannot go.

I can tell you that the witness of these two women was very edifying. They certainly don’t live lives that we would expect, but they live their lives that God is calling them to live and they live with them out within the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony, where they and their husbands are given all of the grace necessary to fulfill God’s call in their lives.

Pray for our priests! Pray for the burnt out, lonely, celibate priests. Pray for the stressed-out married priest, trying to meet everybody’s needs. Pray for the young, enthusiastic, newly ordained priests who has such zeal for the gospel and such plans for his first parish. Pray for the elderly priest who thought he would be able to retire, but the bishop just asked him to stay on another year. Our priests need our prayers.

 

[PetraG]

If he burned out on responsibilities and left, how would his having a wife have helped him have less responsibilities in order to stay?
Seems like it just would have added to his basket. Unless wife is going to take on the burden of part of the ministry.

Oh, come now. Men who have been in a stable marriage for many years have a more difficult life than men who aren’t because of the added responsibility? Does their responsibility to their wives take more time than shopping, cooking for themselves, doing their own laundry and all of the other everyday chores that spouses so often pick up when married to someone with a particularly demanding job? Is that companionship just another job on the “to-do” list?

I was specifically not talking about young men starting out in marriage and adding children whose needs cannot be deferred to a convenient time. Ordaining men with children still at home is a separate question. I was talking about older men with grown children whose wives already understood the demands of the diaconate. Many of those wives, having seen the demands of the priesthood, are going to veto the additional responsibilities, yes. (I know that in our dioceses here in Oregon, a great deal of care is taken to ensure that the wives of candidates for the diaconate are 100% on board with the decision.) Some couples, though, will be in a position to understand the demand and will still be willing to take it on.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

considering the priest to parishioner ratio

This to me is one of the biggest problems with addressing the Latin rite priest shortage by introducing married priests into the mix.

Ideally, if we wanted to make a change like this, it would be best to do it during a time when the resources were not already scarce and the Church was not already stressed by burdening priests. However, when single priests were plentiful, there was no impetus or desire to make the change.

Making such a major change in the middle of a crisis situation does not seem like the best way to go about it. I’m also not convinced that allowing priests to get married would result in a whole bunch of guys suddenly deciding that priesthood was what they wanted to do for a career. Rather, I can see a lot of them trying it and eventually quitting because they feel it is too much of a burden on their marriage and family.

if we could suddenly get enough married men to join up that the priest-to-parishioner ratio went from a few thousand per priest to a couple hundred per priest, it might work, but there are a lot of reasons why men forego the priesthood other than the fact that they do not get to have a wife and family if they become a priest. Also, it seems like the biggest increases in vocations are coming from the traditional end of the spectrum, and those guys aren’t the ones clamoring to have wives.

 

[PetraG]

One of them, was talking about how her young son absolutely loves everything to do with the church. He goes to the church with his father, he follows him around, imitating everything that he does. It was beautiful to hear her describe it.

I have heard more than one priest say he would not want to be the pastor’s kid, not as a child, anyway. Some children love it, but many resent the unspoken expectation that they always display an extremely good living commentary on their father’s ability as a parent.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If they’re already deacons, and children are not in the picture (either no children or they are grown and on their own), then I can see it. However, once you start letting some married priests in the door, it’s hard to say no to the 25-year-old guy who wants to be a priest but also would like to get married.

 

[TheLittleLady]

That is also very specific to the person. At our parish, neither deacon does counseling of any kind. One takes Communion to shut ins, they both serve on the Altar and preach once each month. That is it.

 

[TheLittleLady]

the priest-to-parishioner ratio went from a few thousand per priest to a couple hundred per priest,

Sometimes seeing the data is helpful.

You can find your Archdiocese here, then go to the Diocese level to see your priest-to-parishioner ratio.

http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/lc.html

 

[PetraG]

If they’re already deacons, and children are not in the picture (either no children or they are grown and on their own), then I can see it. However, once you start letting some married priests in the door, it’s hard to say no to the 25-year-old guy who wants to be a priest but also would like to get married.

Well, no, it isn’t. The Church is pretty good at holding a line, particularly a line based on a such a prudent principle.
Even our permanent deacons, after all, still take a vow of perpetual continence. If one of their wives dies, that is normally it. A widowed permanent deacon may not remarry except with the explicit permission from the Holy See, permission that is granted on a case-by-case basis and for very specific reasons.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’m already aware of one man who was a deacon at our church for many years who quit the diaconate when his wife passed away and the Church wouldn’t let him remarry.

 

[TheLittleLady]

The logical idea has always been that when a man is happily married and his spouse dies, he wants to marry again.

 

[babochka]

I have heard more than one priest say he would not want to be the pastor’s kid, not as a child, anyway. Some children love it, but many resent the unspoken expectation that they always display an extremely good living commentary on their father’s ability as a parent.

Some love it, some don’t. You can’t make these kinds of decisions based upon what sort of reaction your future children may or may not have to the situation. At least one of my kids would prefer that we have two kids, two incomes, and a lawyer’s salary. We don’t.

Kids have different personalities. A Protestant pastor I know has two daughters. One daughter is a pastor’s wife, the other daughter has a tenuous relationship with the church. They are individuals with individual reactions to what life sends.

In Eastern Europe, for hundreds of years, sons of priests became priests and daughters of priests married sons of priests (who themselves would become priests). This wasn’t particularly by choice, just the way it was done, mostly because there was essentially a “clerical class”, somewhat above the serfs, but below nobility.

One of the effects of having a free society and prosperous society, with many choices, is that we have more opportunity for unhappiness.
.

 

[babochka]

Tis_Bearself:

If they’re already deacons, and children are not in the picture (either no children or they are grown and on their own), then I can see it. However, once you start letting some married priests in the door, it’s hard to say no to the 25-year-old guy who wants to be a priest but also would like to get married.

Well, no, it isn’t. The Church is pretty good at holding a line, particularly a line based on a such a prudent principle.
Even our permanent deacons, after all, still take a vow of perpetual continence. If one of their wives dies, that is normally it. A widowed permanent deacon may not remarry except with the explicit permission from the Holy See, permission that is granted on a case-by-case basis and for very specific reasons.

Deacons don’t take a vow of perpetual continence, which would involve no longer having marital relations with their wives. They are aware that men who have received the sacrament of Holy Orders are not allowed to marry. Therefore, if something happens to their wives, they would have to remain celibate.

 

[PetraG]

The logical idea has always been that when a man is happily married and his spouse dies, he wants to marry again.

That may be so, but if a man has received Holy Orders, it is rather rare that he will obtain a dispensation to marry afterwards. The normal state of a man who has received Holy Orders is continence for the sake of the Kingdom:
“These are they who were kept from sexual relations with women; they are virgins and these are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been ransomed as the first fruits of the human race for God and the Lamb.” Rev. 14:4
“Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it.” Matt. 19:12

First off, then: virginity, when it is for the sake of un-distracted devotion to God, is the ideal. There is no particular merit in avoiding the charitable sacrifices of marriage when it only keeps the person free to pursue his or her own whims, rather than in order to give the Christian freedom to love and serve God and neighbor without distraction. The ideal is to renounce a sexual relationship in order to be wholly concerned with work for the Kingdom and to serve the Lord without distraction, regardless of one’s past. (I mean as described by the Apostle Paul in 1 Cor. 7.) Having said that, all human beings need both love of God and love of neighbor. Priests should not be so overworked that they have no time to share their innermost selves with a trusted human being, but only bear the burdens of those under their pastoral care. That would be like a parent who spends 100% of their time in child care, never having contact with people who can also take care of them.

 

[PetraG]

One of the effects of having a free society and prosperous society, with many choices, is that we have more opportunity for unhappiness.
.

That does seem to be the case. Humans are peevish creatures, aren’t we, LOL?

Deacons don’t take a vow of perpetual continence, which would involve no longer having marital relations with their wives. They are aware that men who have received the sacrament of Holy Orders are not allowed to marry. Therefore, if something happens to their wives, they would have to remain celibate.

Well, they do take the vow. It is understood that the pre-existing vow to give their bodies to their wives takes precedence over the later vow they are allowed to take–that is, for as long as their wives live. Once the wife who received the first vow dies, however, the vow of perpetual continence precludes making a vow to a second wife to give his body to her. His body is already promised to God.

 

[PetraG]

…removed to combine with an earlier post…

 

[ajfrab]

Deacons don’t take a vow of perpetual continence, which would involve no longer having marital relations with their wives. They are aware that men who have received the sacrament of Holy Orders are not allowed to marry. Therefore, if something happens to their wives, they would have to remain celibate.

This is correct. When our class wrote our letters to the bishop requesting ordination, we had to include a statement that we understood that should our wives predeceased us, we would have to remain celibate.

 

[babochka]

Well, they do take the vow. It is understood that the pre-existing vow to give their bodies to their wives takes precedence over the later vow they are allowed to take–that is, for as long as their wives live. Once the wife who received the first vow dies, however, the vow of perpetual continence precludes making a vow to a second wife to give his body to her. His body is already promised to God.

Can you link to the ordination ceremony which contains this vow?

 

[ajfrab]

There is no vow of continence, at least not in the Rite of Ordination in the U.S.

Here are the promises from the Rite:

Bishop: Dear sons, before you enter the Order of the Diaconate, you must declare before the people your intention to undertake this office.

Do you resolve to be consecrated for the Church’s ministry by the laying on of my hands and the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Elect: I do.

Bishop: Do you resolve to discharge the office of deacon with humble charity in order to assist the priestly Order and to benefit the Christian people?

Elect: I do.

Bishop: Do you resolve to hold fast to the mystery of faith with a clear conscience, as the Apostle urges, and to proclaim this faith in word and deed according to the Gospel and the Church’s tradition?

Elect: I do.

Bishop: (to the elect who are unmarried) Those of you who are prepared to embrace the celibate state: do you resolve to keep for ever this commitment as a sign of your dedication to Christ the Lord for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven, in the service of God and man?

Elect : I do.

Bishop: Do [all of] you resolve to maintain and deepen the spirit of prayer that is proper to your way of life and, in keep- ing with this spirit and what is required of you, to celebrate faithfully the Liturgy of the Hours with and for the People of God and indeed for the whole world?

Elect: I do.

Bishop: Do you resolve to conform your way of life always to the example of Christ, of whose Body and Blood you are min- isters at the altar?

Elect: I do, with the help of God.

Bishop: Do you promise respect and obedience to me and my successors?

Elect: I do.

 

[Mi_Rose]

There is a promise of perpetual continence for transitional deacons only.
Edited because it is a promise not a vow.