Married people seeing singles as immature

[starshiptrooper]

So, how common is abortion among married women?

I was just looking this up, and 85% of abortions are procured by unmarried women. It sounds like, if one doesn’t want one’s child aborted, it’s a much better bet to be married.

The point is, you still have absolutely no legal rights in regard to your kids and in some cases, you can pay child support for other people’s kids as a Canadian guy found out when the court ordered him to pay child support for children his cheating wife had with another guy.

 

[Xantippe]

But that’s exactly it! It’s this sense of superiority because one somehow fancies himself/herself as a paragon of just one single thing.

It’s why I’ve often doubted the merit of being called ‘mature’ when people ascribe certain attributes that are simply all-too few. For all we know, real maturity (whatever that is) could require hundreds, if not thousands of attributes (and not all at the same time too).

Ah but why stop there? I’ve known people who’ve drunk and slept around but they are certainly way more mature in a lot of areas compared to people whose main routine in life is to simply declare how sinful and depraved everything is.

For me, having experienced life, work, and responsibility, I’ve found the expectation to fulfill someone’s (or a religion’s) definition of ‘mature’ as more of a stumbling block.

My feeling is that in Catholic thought, “maturity” is not actually a much-discussed subject.

Virtue is really important in Catholic thought, and I suppose that the cardinal virtues (prudence, justice, temperance, courage) are typical of mature people, but we don’t normally talk about maturity per se.

 

[DarkLight]

Anyways, the original question was how one ought to respond to such individuals or to such assertions in a discussion, as a single person.

Any ideas?

 

[Xantippe]

The point is, you still have absolutely no legal rights in regard to your kids and in some cases, you can pay child support for other people’s kids as a Canadian guy found out when the court ordered him to pay child support for children his cheating wife had with another guy.

Wait–so one should have children out of wedlock (that will quite likely be aborted) instead of having children in wedlock (that will almost certainly not be aborted)?

Or are you encouraging men to embrace lifelong abstinence rather than risking marriage?

I am confused.

 

[Xantippe]

Anyways, the original question was how one ought to respond to such individuals or to such assertions in a discussion, as a single person.

Any ideas?

Sorry for the derail.

Well, for starters, you could quote St. Paul on how the single man or the single woman is focused on the things of God, but the married man or woman is focused on pleasing their spouse?

Or you could quote Jesus’s words in Matthew 19: "The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.” Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

But that might sound a little smug…

But there are lots and lots of Bible verses available to you.

 

[DarkLight]

My feeling is that in Catholic thought, “maturity” is not actually a much-discussed subject.

Virtue is really important in Catholic thought, and I suppose that the cardinal virtues (prudence, justice, temperance, courage) are typical of mature people, but we don’t normally talk about maturity per se.

It was mostly something I thought of after the singles in church thread - there’s a fair few single young adults who still feel like we’re relegated to the “kid’s table”, so to speak.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

My feeling is that in Catholic thought, “maturity” is not actually a much-discussed subject.

Virtue is really important in Catholic thought, and I suppose that the cardinal virtues (prudence, justice, temperance, courage) are typical of mature people, but we don’t normally talk about maturity per se.

Maybe that’s the answer the OP should try.

 

[Xantippe]

It was mostly something I thought of after the singles in church thread - there’s a fair few single young adults who still feel like we’re relegated to the “kid’s table”, so to speak.

From what one of the posters was saying, it sounds like"the kids’ table" is the alternative to “the creepy single old guy table.”

 

[Xantippe]

Alternately, I’d say that marriage and parenthood provide opportunities for virtue, but not everybody makes much of their opportunities.

 

[DarkLight]

Alternately, I’d say that marriage and parenthood provide opportunities for virtue, but not everybody makes much of their opportunities.

That was sort of my thought on the matter. I do not doubt that marriage and family provide a couple with many opportunities for growth. But those are not the only opportunities out there, and the lack of that particular set does not necessarily render one less mature.

I was hoping for a polite way to indicate to some people that what they’re saying has some less than polite implications for others around. Something to the effect of “do you really think I’m less mature than you are just because I don’t have a husband” without being quite that blunt. I’m assuming of course that we’re dealing with a case where someone hasn’t really thought through the implications of what they’re saying.

 

[CatholicSheila]

Anyways, the original question was how one ought to respond to such individuals or to such assertions in a discussion, as a single person.

Any ideas?

I’m in basically the exact same situation as you. Single and chaste and it’s not likely to change. I also think it would be irresponsible for me to try to find a man to settle down with.

I deal with these comments one of two ways:

1. I laugh it off and ignore them. This is typically for people in a work situation. I don’t have to be friends with them, I just have to work with them. I don’t really see it as worth my effort to correct them.
2. I explain the realities of my life. The things that they haven’t considered (this is usally only with close friends and family)

• I am responsible for everything. I do all the laundry. I do all the cleaning. I do all the cooking. It isn’t to half the levels of married couple because I’m single. I still have a full kitchen to clean. There is no break. Ever. None of my married family or friends have ever said they never get a break. Quite the opposite.
• Financially, it is very difficult. A single person can not buy a house or unit where I live. Not on an average income. (The average house would take up 95% of my income - and I’m on an above average salary). Families either have two incomes or they get a lot of assistance - the majority of families I know have a mortgage. The vast majority of singles simply can not get one because the repayments are unaffordable.
• Buying for one isn’t half the price of buying for two. The only reason the singles I know are better off financially than the families is because they can’t get a mortgage and rent is cheaper than a mortgage. Even then, the difference is excess money is very small. Almost to the point of irrelevancy. Again, this is seems to be because families either have two incomes or they get a lot of assistance.
• No safety net. If I fall, then I’m on the street. There isn’t a second person we can fall back on to go get a job.
• I have no one to lean on. If I’m sad, then I cry with my cat. If I’m stressed and I need to talk it through, there’s no one there. There is no one to love and no one to be loved by. Obviously there is extended family and friends, but it isn’t the same.
• I have to put up with ignorant comments about how my life is so much easier and/or how I should pick up the slack for families - ie. take the ****** shifts at work because I don’t have kids. Give up holidays at Christmas because I don’t have kids. Listen to idiots who tell me they shouldn’t have to pay taxes because they have kids and that people like me should pick up the bill (Seriously, heard this just the other day).

I can carry on about why life isn’t a bed of roses when you’re single. That we also have to behave like responsible adults to make life work. Usually I get my point across. These are just things people have never considered.

If they carry on telling me how easy my life is being single I usually tell them they’re lucky that they have a spouse and that they have children. That some of us would love that, but for whatever reason can’t or don’t have it. That any difficulties that come with it are more than made up for by the benefits. Essentially to shut up because I have no sympathy. Perhaps that’s not charitable.

I do find that most people are smart enough to realise that it isn’t all roses on the other side of the fence.

 

[Xantippe]

I

• I am responsible for everything. I do all the laundry. I do all the cleaning. I do all the cooking. It isn’t to half the levels of married couple because I’m single. I still have a full kitchen to clean. There is no break. Ever. None of my married family or friends have ever said they never get a break. Quite the opposite.

**When I was a single woman, I did two loads of laundry once a week. Now that I have a husband and three children, I do at least two loads every day.

A kitchen that is used by five people gets at least five times as dirty as a kitchen used by one person. The bathrooms get five times as dirty, too.

Now, it’s true the lawn does not need to be mowed five times as often, but I would not recommend a single-family home to a single person. It’s rough enough for a family. **

• Financially, it is very difficult. A single person can not buy a house or unit where I live. Not on an average income. (The average house would take up 95% of my income - and I’m on an above average salary). Families either have two incomes or they get a lot of assistance - the majority of families I know have a mortgage. The vast majority of singles simply can not get one because the repayments are unaffordable.

**And presumably the single-income families can’t live there at all. **

• Buying for one isn’t half the price of buying for two.

**
Freeze stuff when cooking “family-size” batches.

Five people do eat five times as much as a single person. They also have five times as many doctor bills and dentist’s bills.

If there are economies, it’s from doing stuff like eating out very, very rarely, and from having kids hand-down clothes.
**

The only reason the singles I know are better off financially than the families is because they can’t get a mortgage and rent is cheaper than a mortgage. Even then, the difference is excess money is very small. Almost to the point of irrelevancy. Again, this is seems to be because families either have two incomes or they get a lot of assistance.

• No safety net. If I fall, then I’m on the street. There isn’t a second person we can fall back on to go get a job.

**In a single-income family, if the main earner loses his or her job, then what?

Also, in an area like yours in the US, the double-income families are paying the equivalent of a mortgage payment in daycare costs while children are small.

Also, it’s much easier to find a place for one person to stay than it is to find a place that can happily host four or five.
**

• I have no one to lean on. If I’m sad, then I cry with my cat. If I’m stressed and I need to talk it through, there’s no one there. There is no one to love and no one to be loved by. Obviously there is extended family and friends, but it isn’t the same.

**That’s quite true, but only true for people in good marriages.

People in bad marriages cry by themselves and cry more.
**

• I have to put up with ignorant comments about how my life is so much easier and/or how I should pick up the slack for families - ie. take the ****** shifts at work because I don’t have kids. Give up holidays at Christmas because I don’t have kids. Listen to idiots who tell me they shouldn’t have to pay taxes because they have kids and that people like me should pick up the bill (Seriously, heard this just the other day).

I can carry on about why life isn’t a bed of roses when you’re single. That we also have to behave like responsible adults to make life work. Usually I get my point across. These are just things people have never considered.

If they carry on telling me how easy my life is being single I usually tell them they’re lucky that they have a spouse and that they have children. That some of us would love that, but for whatever reason can’t or don’t have it. That any difficulties that come with it are more than made up for by the benefits. Essentially to shut up because I have no sympathy. Perhaps that’s not charitable.

I do find that most people are smart enough to realise that it isn’t all roses on the other side of the fence.

 

[DeniseNY]

Anyways, the original question was how one ought to respond to such individuals or to such assertions in a discussion, as a single person.

Any ideas?

Ignore it.

It’s not the same thing, but this made me think of a comment a “friend” of mine made to me once. She said that she wasn’t “part of the human race” until she had children. I guess that makes me a cocker spaniel because I have no children?

Sometimes it’s not worth the time or effort to engage in a debate with someone with such silly ideas.

 

[MJJean]

I do not doubt that marriage and family provide a couple with many opportunities for growth. But those are not the only opportunities out there, and the lack of that particular set does not necessarily render one less mature.

Why not simply say that? It’s polite, true, and not so long or overly wordy that the listener(s) will tune you out due to short attention spans.

 

[Sarcelle]

Xantippe:
You guys just reminded of the verses of St. Paul on the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is made up of all kinds of people from all walks of life, married, single, widowed, divorced, young, old, middle-aged, etc… The nose does not say to the ear, we don’t need you, nor is the eye more important than the foot.

We cannot control what others say to us but in the end we know that we are no less a part of the body of Christ than the married folk.

We do however control what we say to others, so if somebody says something incredibly condescending or judgmental to us, just tell yourself to more discerning about what we say to others and to exercise prudence. Also to be merciful to the offender.

Come Judgement day, we will all be made accountable for all the words that we have said to others.

 

[Sarcelle]

Ignore it.

It’s not the same thing, but this made me think of a comment a “friend” of mine made to me once. She said that she wasn’t “part of the human race” until she had children. I guess that makes me a cocker spaniel because I have no children?

Sometimes it’s not worth the time or effort to engage in a debate with someone with such silly ideas.

Oy vey! I must not be human too.

 

[Malon101]

You guys just reminded of the verses of St. Paul on the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is made up of all kinds of people from all walks of life, married, single, widowed, divorced, young, old, middle-aged, etc… The nose does not say to the ear, we don’t need you, nor is the eye more important than the foot.

We cannot control what others say to us but in the end we know that we are no less a part of the body of Christ than the married folk.

We do however control what we say to others, so if somebody says something incredibly condescending or judgmental to us, just tell yourself to more discerning about what we say to others and to exercise prudence. Also to be merciful to the offender.

Come Judgement day, we will all be made accountable for all the words that we have said to others.

Lol, yes I agree, we all have to stop judging each other. Forgive me for being a biology nerd, but if you you look at a human body, as it is developing, it consists of different cell types, different organs, each with their own functions, ways of receiving signals, interpreting those signals, and reacting towards those signals. They could be totally opposite responses from each, other, yet, they are doing what they are supposed to be doing - their duty and function, for the TOTAL good of the entire body. Some cells replicate fast, some slowly, some not at all - what would happen if ALL cell types replicated at the same rate? Cancer, not a good thing. What would happen if some cell types did not replicate when they are supposed to? Death of that organ, and overall bad for the body. Figure out what you are in the body of Christ, do your duty and your function and stop preventing others from doing theirs. We are all one .

 

[EasterJoy]

Ignore it.

It’s not the same thing, but this made me think of a comment a “friend” of mine made to me once. She said that she wasn’t “part of the human race” until she had children. I guess that makes me a cocker spaniel because I have no children?

Sometimes it’s not worth the time or effort to engage in a debate with someone with such silly ideas.

If you bit your tongue and didn’t observe that Mother Teresa and the Pope probably also count as members of the human race, not to mention present company and the woman’s own children, you are a better person that I am.

Of course, you could also say, “Why? Because you think you were self-centered before you had children? Why, Becky, I wouldn’t be so hard on yourself!” (OK, I wouldn’t have the guts to say that unless she made some point in her own “defense” about how selfless motherhood had made her. I would let her keep digging herself deeper into that preposterous rhetorical hole for as long as she wanted to keep digging, I must admit it!..but then, I have a mean streak! )

 

[DarkLight]

Ignore it.

It’s not the same thing, but this made me think of a comment a “friend” of mine made to me once. She said that she wasn’t “part of the human race” until she had children. I guess that makes me a cocker spaniel because I have no children?

Sometimes it’s not worth the time or effort to engage in a debate with someone with such silly ideas.

Yeah if you’re at that level of silliness there’s really no point.

I’m thinking more of listening to married people happily chattering on about how marriage really makes you grow up and you just can’t be quite as mature if you don’t have another person in your life and don’t get the chance to go out partying all the time…

It’s especially annoying for those of us who have health problems. I would bet my schedule is as full as some of my married friends, just because I have to spend so much extra time on dealing with various problems.

 

[starshiptrooper]

Wait–so one should have children out of wedlock (that will quite likely be aborted) instead of having children in wedlock (that will almost certainly not be aborted)?

Or are you encouraging men to embrace lifelong abstinence rather than risking marriage?

I am confused.

No, I am simply pointing out that civil marriage is for masochistic men.