Married permanent deacons: how can anyone have TWO vocations?

[JReducation]

As Nydia said, the spouse is not called to Holy Orders. It would be incorrect to say that we’re getting two for the price of one. There are classes for the spouses and children of clergy; but they are different from one diocese to another.

The spouses of those who are ordained tot he priesthood whether they are Roman Catholic, Eastern Catholic or Orthodox are usually very cooperative in ministry; but the Church does not expect them to make their husband’s ministry their own. Most wives of deacons and priests have their own ministry, if they have the time. If they have younger children, they have to cover for dad when he’s out. We must applaud the generosity of these women who are willing to share their husbands with the Church. Without their consent, the husband cannot be ordained.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Mattapoisett64]

Something else to consider about married permenant deacons is that the Church, in her wisdom, expects the wife to go through all the trianing and discernment that the husband does. So if so ways, this is one vocation for two people. Even though the deacon’s wife is not ordained in anyway and does not have any official role within the Church, she is still expected to do this. I imagine the same would be true for the wives of Anglican or Luthern men who convert and are called to the priesthood within the Catholic church. Does anyone know if similar expectations are placed on the wife of an Orthodox or Eastern Catholic priest?

I believe this expectation varies by diocese. In my diocese, there is no expectation that the wives attend the classes, although they are always welcome to. A factor in this is that our classes are held two weekday nights per week, times 10 months, times 4 years, and presumably someone needs to be home with the family. In dioceses where the classes are one weekend a month, the expectation on spouse attendance may be different as that schedule *might *make it easier to arrange.

 

[JReducation]

I believe this expectation varies by diocese. In my diocese, there is no expectation that the wives attend the classes, although they are always welcome to. A factor in this is that our classes are held two weekday nights per week, times 10 months, times 4 years, and presumably someone needs to be home with the family. In dioceses where the classes are one weekend a month, the expectation on spouse attendance may be different as that schedule *might *make it easier to arrange.

I have taught theology to deacons in three dioceses, the only consistent expectation that I have seen is a meeting with the spouse. Other than that, the wives are often invited to certain classes, conferences and other activities. I do remember in DC they used to have a series of meetings with the wives; but that was many years ago. I was transfered from that diocesee in 1999. I have no idea what they are doing now.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[LilyM]

Is not being a parent considered to be a vocation? Certainly it is not a mere profession, it is much more. And are not parents ALSO most always called to the vocation of marriage as well?

 

[plato3]

In our class, we were given the priority list:
1.God
2.family duties
3.secular vocation
4.diaconate duties

Marriage and our families were stressed as the vocation from which our diaconate sprung. Being out in the world and working a secular job and dealing with familily problems while carrying out the faith was suppose to be an example to all. That being said-with priestless parishes and more converts all the time, the deacon has had to assist more in Sacramental duties (Baptisms, Marriages) and other duties such as rosaries, funerals Etc. This sometimes confuses people who observe the deacon on a regular basis and conclude that he is a junior priest-which he is not.

 

[JReducation]

Is not being a parent considered to be a vocation? Certainly it is not a mere profession, it is much more. And are not parents ALSO most always called to the vocation of marriage as well?

Parenting is certainly a vocation. The reason that it is not singled out in most writings is because it is included in the statements on marriage. The Church wants to be very careful not to speak of parenting separate from marriage to avoid giving the impression that one may be a parent without getting married. She wants to emphasize the parenthood is a natural part of marriage. Even in the cases where a person ends us raising their children alone, as was my case after my wife died, you always have in mind that your vocation to fatherhood and motherhood flowed out of your marital vocation. At the same time, the Church realizes that there are exceptions to the rule. The are men and women who become parents without being married. But this should be the exception, not the norm. There are single people who become parents by adoption. They certainly have a vocation to parenting…

But when the Church writes she always tries to speak of the norm rather than address every possible exception, though she admits that there are exceptions. Because even the term “single parent” has come to mean a parent who is divorced or never married. I experienced this myself before I became a brother. I would say that I was a single parent and people would ask me if I was divorced. When I said that I was a widowed parent, they quickly understood. That’s why the Church avoids the term sngle parent. Society has limited its meaning, exluding widows, widowers and adoptive parents who may be single.

Yes, being a parent is a vocation, but under normal circumstances is should be a vocation within the marital vocation.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

In our class, we were given the priority list:
1.God
2.family duties
3.secular vocation
4.diaconate duties

Marriage and our families were stressed as the vocation from which our diaconate sprung. Being out in the world and working a secular job and dealing with familily problems while carrying out the faith was suppose to be an example to all. That being said-with priestless parishes and more converts all the time, the deacon has had to assist more in Sacramental duties (Baptisms, Marriages) and other duties such as rosaries, funerals Etc. This sometimes confuses people who observe the deacon on a regular basis and conclude that he is a junior priest-which he is not.

I’ve noticed that many permanent deacons are having the same identity problems that religious brothers had. I’m not sayng that the deacons have the problem and neither did the brothers. The laity had the problem. They sometime think of a deacon as a half-baked priest. I’vealways found it funny, because no one thinks of a priest as a half-baked bishop.

The reality is that the deacon has a proper role in liturgy and in the life of the Church, which is conferred upon him by the Sacrament of Holy Orders. I always like to tell people that the Gospel Book is the deacon’s book, because even if a bishop or the pope is presiding at the mass, if there is a deacon, the bishop or the pope may not proclaim the gospel. It must be the deacon. When I say that, then people stop and take notice that the deacon has a special place in liturgy. I believe this is the same rule in the Eastern Churches. The proclamation of the Gospel belongs to the deacon.

As to other parish duties, there are certain duties that are proper to the cleric, such as burying the dead, even though it’s not a mass or any of the other rites connected with death and burial. Anyone can say the prayers, in the absence of clergy. But they are properly prayers that are led by clerics.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[LtTony]

For example, religious priests have a vocation to the religious life first, and then they may be further called to the priesthood within their religious life (but they are a religious first and priest second). That’s 2 distinct vocations.

A second example could be a man who was married and is later widowed. After his wife dies, he could conceivably be called to the priesthood or even to religious life. You could say that he has lived 2 vocations in his life.

Could you explain this portion please? Religious/religious life vs priesthood.

Thanks

 

[CWBetts]

Could you explain this portion please? Religious/religious life vs priesthood.

Thanks

not all priests are religious. “Religious” are those in an order (Jesuit, Franciscan, Benedictine, etc). Most parish priests are “secular,” that is, not in an order.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I really appreciate what you have written. As a nurse, I feel it is very much my vocation even though I have also been called to be a wife and mother. Nursing is a part of who I am and what my calling is on this earth. I believe that I minister to my patients physically, emotionally and spiritually. I wanted to be a nurse from as early as I can remember and have never wanted to be or do anything else. It is much more than a career or a job or a paycheck.

I totally agree. I am a nurse, too, as well as a wife and mother, and I have always considered my nursing as service to God in caring for the sick. I pray every day that I go to work that I serve Him well and to the best of my ability in caring for my patients. And, like you, I felt this call from childhood and never really wanted to be anything else. I’ve always looked on it as a vocation and the will of God in my life.

 

[JReducation]

Those of you who are nurses, I encourage to notice Veronica on Good Friday. Is she not nursing Jesus when she wipes the blood off his face? Jesus reward her kindness by the gift of his image.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[CB_Catholic]

Those of you who are nurses, I encourage to notice Veronica on Good Friday. Is she not nursing Jesus when she wipes the blood off his face? Jesus reward her kindness by the gift of his image.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

That is an awesome thought. Thank you, JR

 

[envchemist]

The thing with Deacons is that they haven’t been around that long in modern times. I do find it humerous that the first matyr was a deacon—Deacons go where priests don’t have time to go and like Brothers, most of their ministry is not seen by the Parish at large. But if you are sick or in prison—you’ll know. I share part of my husband’s ministry. I have the gift of teaching and help with RCIA— and as a convert I have that perspective of “man these teachings are tough!!” and how God’s grace got me there. The best thing I can say to my class and others is It matters less how you started (or what you did), then how you finish. Finishing well is important! Look at St. Augustine! I did have to give my consent and that final letter to the Bishop consenting to my husband becoming a Deacon was hard, but it was the right thing to do.

I’ve noticed that many permanent deacons are having the same identity problems that religious brothers had. I’m not sayng that the deacons have the problem and neither did the brothers. The laity had the problem. They sometime think of a deacon as a half-baked priest. I’vealways found it funny, because no one thinks of a priest as a half-baked bishop.

The reality is that the deacon has a proper role in liturgy and in the life of the Church, which is conferred upon him by the Sacrament of Holy Orders. I always like to tell people that the Gospel Book is the deacon’s book, because even if a bishop or the pope is presiding at the mass, if there is a deacon, the bishop or the pope may not proclaim the gospel. It must be the deacon. When I say that, then people stop and take notice that the deacon has a special place in liturgy. I believe this is the same rule in the Eastern Churches. The proclamation of the Gospel belongs to the deacon.

As to other parish duties, there are certain duties that are proper to the cleric, such as burying the dead, even though it’s not a mass or any of the other rites connected with death and burial. Anyone can say the prayers, in the absence of clergy. But they are properly prayers that are led by clerics.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[momor]

Those of you who are nurses, I encourage to notice Veronica on Good Friday. Is she not nursing Jesus when she wipes the blood off his face? Jesus reward her kindness by the gift of his image.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Yes, thank you for a beautiful reflection. I will think of it during the Stations.

Martha and Mary are also reflective of the vocation of nursing. Martha is the busy nurse, administering treatments and making sure her patients are clean and fed and comfortable and Mary is the nurse who sits at the bedside holding the hand of her patient (and family), listening to them and tending to their spirit.

 

[LtTony]

not all priests are religious. “Religious” are those in an order (Jesuit, Franciscan, Benedictine, etc). Most parish priests are “secular,” that is, not in an order.

Thanks. What would be an example of a secular priest?

 

[CWBetts]

Thanks. What would be an example of a secular priest?

Any priest not associated with a religious order. Chances are that your own parish priest is secular.

 

[Young_Thinker]

Do not forget that the Eastern Catholic Churches (and the Orthodox) have always had a married secular clergy.

That is they ordain married men to the priesthood.

I do not think the Church has ever stated that a person can only have one vocation.

However, bishops are never allowed to be married(though, of course, they can be widowers).

 

[Young_Thinker]

Any priest not associated with a religious order. Chances are that your own parish priest is secular.

If you can distinguish the difference(you probably should not stare at him during a service), a religious priest whose order has an actual habit will always wear his habit during mass(that is, underneath all of the other garments, whether at the altar or in choir) rather than a cassock. By the way, Lepanto, I really your username, which seems to refer to the 16th c. battle involving aid from Our Lady of the Victory.

 

[The_Geographer]

However, bishops are never allowed to be married(though, of course, they can be widowers).

Bishops were usually married during the first few hundred years of the church. The celibate bishops came about after many issues dealing with what was church property and what was heir properties. I read that from a Byzantine Catholic priest, which is what I would love to be.

 

[CWBetts]

If you can distinguish the difference(you probably should not stare at him during a service), a religious priest whose order has an actual habit will always wear his habit during mass(that is, underneath all of the other garments, whether at the altar or in choir) rather than a cassock. By the way, Lepanto, I really your username, which seems to refer to the 16th c. battle involving aid from Our Lady of the Victory.

Of course it is easy to tell if he has letters after his name, SJ, OFM, TOR, OP, and so on…