married priests

[cheezey]

In My Not At All Humble Opinion.

FWIW, I agree with you. What the Churcb says goes. But I trust that its leaders are too hardheaded to give in to the sexual revolution. IMNAAHO!

ICXC NIKA

GTK!!! (Good to know!!)

Secularly speaking, consider the military. How many dads miss the birth of their child while serving our country? I am sure the wife would not demand that he come home at that instant. But this was just one example. I understood the intent of the comparison.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I really prefer married priests because I find I can relate to them so much better. In my experience they are the only priests who have a normal sexual orientation and understand the struggles that a heterosexual man will go through. In our culture heterosexual men have not been willing to give up a family and so there aren’t very many of these men who enter the priesthood. Maybe it would be nice to not have the call to service and the call to marriage mutually exclusive. But I also understand not changing a 1000 year old tradition to suit a recent development in our culture.

 

[cheezey]

I really prefer married priests because I find I can relate to them so much better. In my experience they are the only priests who have a normal sexual orientation and understand the struggles that a heterosexual man will go through. In our culture heterosexual men have not been willing to give up a family and so there aren’t very many of these men who enter the priesthood. Maybe it would be nice to not have the call to service and the call to marriage mutually exclusive. But I also understand not changing a 1000 year old tradition to suit a recent development in our culture.

 

[Ophelia23]

GTK!!! (Good to know!!)

Secularly speaking, consider the military. How many dads miss the birth of their child while serving our country? I am sure the wife would not demand that he come home at that instant. But this was just one example. I understood the intent of the comparison.

Yes, I suppose my example was a pretty weak one. I do seem to be out on a branch by myself on this.

All I’m trying to highlight (and rather poorly, I might add) is that there is room for conflict between family and parish.

 

[Rmac81]

I guess I’m not sure how money fits into why priests should or should not be allowed to marry.

I’m a former Protestant, but when I came into the Church I was grateful for the vow of celibacy that priests take. Before it was something that seemed odd to me, or it was presented that way to me, but now I see the benefits.

The priest is like a father to the congregation. It is such a blessing to have a priest(s) conducting masses everyday, available for confessions, so dedicated to their parish. Additionally, I’ve heard priests on radio shows discuss the spiritual benefits of their vow of celibacy–sure it’s a sacrifice, but they get so much back in return and they wouldn’t have it any other way. A priest even said that if the Church lifted the celibacy requirement, that many would take the vow anyway.

I’ve also heard a priest from the Anglican rite speak about being married. He said there’s pros and cons to both (he has a family to go home too vs. going home alone, his family sacrifices a lot for his vocation).

 

[cheezey]

Yes, I suppose my example was a pretty weak one. I do seem to be out on a branch by myself on this.

All I’m trying to highlight (and rather poorly, I might add) is that there is room for conflict between family and parish.

No, it wasn’t weak at all.

I think there is room too, but perhaps my weak example is having 2 full time jobs and being on call for each 24/7. The likelihood of receiving an emergency call for each at the same is highly unlikely, therefore mostly do-able. But the stress of living each job, trying to do your best for each, being tired all the time, and knowing there COULD be a call at the same time…

 

[edwest2]

A few words from Pope Paul VI.

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_24061967_sacerdotalis_en.html

Peace,
Ed

 

[on_the_hill]

Well, the way I see it, it would bother me if the man ministering to my parish lived an upper-middle class lifestyle while the people in the congregation relied on social welfare programs.

To be fair, he may make tremendous donations to the church. I don’t know.

From a Catholic perspective, I’m familiar with a few blue collar fiscally conservative Democratic parishes. Let’s say a married priest has children, and his wife brings an income in addition to his. Christmas morning, his kids get new bicycles.

You know what you’re going to hear? “Why should the priest’s kids get new bikes for Christmas? My kids didn’t get new bikes. Why am I putting my cash in the basket every week when his kids are riding new bikes?”

 

[babochka]

From a Catholic perspective, I’m familiar with a few blue collar fiscally conservative Democratic parishes. Let’s say a married priest has children, and his wife brings an income in addition to his. Christmas morning, his kids get new bicycles.

You know what you’re going to hear? “Why should the priest’s kids get new bikes for Christmas? My kids didn’t get new bikes. Why am I putting my cash in the basket every week when his kids are riding new bikes?”

Why should some parishioner’s judgmental and sinful attitudes dictate anything? My priest works hard. He is pastor to our parish, says Mass 2-3 times per week at a different parish, and teaches theology at a local high school. He and his family make tremendous sacrifices so that he can be a priest. Our parish, sadly, cannot support them and so they find other means of support and I thank God every day for their willingness to give of themselves. I am thrilled when their children get something new because it gives me an assurance that they’re doing ok, in spite of all the sacrifices that they make for us. This married priest is a devout and holy man and is a tremendous blessing to all who encounter him. The priesthood would be poorer if he were not in it.

I support the Latin church’s discipline of celibacy. I believe it has brought tremendous spiritual fruit to the Church throughout history and to those men who live it well. The witness to the world of men choosing celibacy for the sake of the kingdom is irreplaceable. I am grateful for their sacrifice for the Church and for me. I also support my own church’s tradition of a married priesthood. It is clear that the Church herself believes that there is value in both traditions. The church does not teach that allowing married priests in the Eastern rites is some concession for the sake of unity. It teaches that we have a practice that is equally supported by tradition. In our practice, the gift and blessing of celibacy is lived out in the monastic life. I think that we, as individuals, should see through the church’s eyes on this and realize that both practices are blessings to the church.

 

[bilop]

I just don’t think money would be that big an issue for married priests.

The single biggest expense of every family is housing. The priest would have free housing. Many, if not most parishes have rectories far larger than is needed for the priest they have today. It would be easy to make an apartment for a priest’s family.

Parishes currently cover all the utilities and maintenance for the rectory; nothing would change there. The food bill would go up, but you probably wouldn’t need a cook or housekeeper, so that’s a big savings.

With housing, utilities and food basically free, you wouldn’t have to pay the priest all that much, for him to be able to support a family.

God Bless

 

[babochka]

I think that is true. Our parish does not have a rectory and our priest graciously provides his own. If that were provided, he would still need to work a second job, but not as much as he does now. In a larger parish, I think it would be easier. I know that the Latin -rite priests in the local diocese get a salary of about $2200 per month. If my housing and utilities were covered, my family could almost make it on that salary. It wouldn’t take that much to bump it up to an acceptable level. Of course, they would have to plan for housing upon their retirement.

 

[bilop]

I think that is true. Our parish does not have a rectory and our priest graciously provides his own. If that were provided, he would still need to work a second job, but not as much as he does now. In a larger parish, I think it would be easier. I know that the Latin -rite priests in the local diocese get a salary of about $2200 per month. If my housing and utilities were covered, my family could almost make it on that salary. It wouldn’t take that much to bump it up to an acceptable level. Of course, they would have to plan for housing upon their retirement.

Agreed.

Even the retirement issue won’t be a big deal in most places. Priests don’t retire until 75 (or later) and most keep working as “senior priests” after that. There is no reason that they couldn’t be assigned to parishes that have excess space in the rectory, and could accommodate a family. At that age, it will most likely just be the priest and his wife anyway, as children will be grown.

God Bless

 

[on_the_hill]

Why should some parishioner’s judgmental and sinful attitudes dictate anything?

Ehhh, I’m not sure it’s sinful. Maybe judgmental, but not exactly sinful. And I would be sympathetic to such a complaint.

My priest works hard. He is pastor to our parish, says Mass 2-3 times per week at a different parish, and teaches theology at a local high school. He and his family make tremendous sacrifices so that he can be a priest. Our parish, sadly, cannot support them and so they find other means of support and I thank God every day for their willingness to give of themselves. I am thrilled when their children get something new because it gives me an assurance that they’re doing ok, in spite of all the sacrifices that they make for us. This married priest is a devout and holy man and is a tremendous blessing to all who encounter him. The priesthood would be poorer if he were not in it.

I support the Latin church’s discipline of celibacy. I believe it has brought tremendous spiritual fruit to the Church throughout history and to those men who live it well. The witness to the world of men choosing celibacy for the sake of the kingdom is irreplaceable. I am grateful for their sacrifice for the Church and for me. I also support my own church’s tradition of a married priesthood. It is clear that the Church herself believes that there is value in both traditions. The church does not teach that allowing married priests in the Eastern rites is some concession for the sake of unity. It teaches that we have a practice that is equally supported by tradition. In our practice, the gift and blessing of celibacy is lived out in the monastic life. I think that we, as individuals, should see through the church’s eyes on this and realize that both practices are blessings to the church.

I don’t disagree at all. But I’m tellin’ ya, if you were to go to some of the small industrial/manufacturing towns in my state, you’d realize what a tremendous culture shift it might take for the people to accept.

 

[IBombAtomically]

I just don’t think money would be that big an issue for married priests.

The single biggest expense of every family is housing. The priest would have free housing. Many, if not most parishes have rectories far larger than is needed for the priest they have today. It would be easy to make an apartment for a priest’s family.

Parishes currently cover all the utilities and maintenance for the rectory; nothing would change there. The food bill would go up, but you probably wouldn’t need a cook or housekeeper, so that’s a big savings.

With housing, utilities and food basically free, you wouldn’t have to pay the priest all that much, for him to be able to support a family.

God Bless

College tuition for a presumably large family? Children are not as expensive as our secular media would have us believe, but their cost is not negligible. Hopefully your parish is blessed with a sizable surplus, but any parish of which I’ve been a part has barely been able to cover their bills and always seems to be holding fundraisers for anything extra. While families are beautiful and we can certainly serve God through raising children, the extra expense of a priest’s family would realistically cut out a substantial amount of resources that otherwise would have been allocated toward the poor in the community. It is a freedom to be able to give completely in that manner, I think.

And in general response to this thread:
My dad’s Presbyterian church has a pretty small congregation, yet the pastor makes close to $80,000 and lives rent/utility free in the half-million-dollar manse. He’s also listed as receiving $40,000 in benefits (which I’d imagine would be health insurance but I’m not sure what else that includes). The pastor is a great guy and serves the congregation well. I just think maybe there are also positives to being able to devote more money directly toward ministries and outreach.

I’m thankful for the gift of priestly celibacy. Somebody remind me of the verse from Corinthians that says a married man has to worry about pleasing his wife but a single man only has to worry about pleasing God. If we change the rules, aren’t we giving into our culture who has created a false god out of sex, and saying Yes i’ll give ANYTHING up to serve God… but not sex!

 

[bilop]

College tuition for a presumably large family? Children are not as expensive as our secular media would have us believe, but their cost is not negligible. Hopefully your parish is blessed with a sizable surplus, but any parish of which I’ve been a part has barely been able to cover their bills and always seems to be holding fundraisers for anything extra. While families are beautiful and we can certainly serve God through raising children, the extra expense of a priest’s family would realistically cut out a substantial amount of resources that otherwise would have been allocated toward the poor in the community. It is a freedom to be able to give completely in that manner, I think.

And in general response to this thread:
My dad’s Presbyterian church has a pretty small congregation, yet the pastor makes close to $80,000 and lives rent/utility free in the half-million-dollar manse. He’s also listed as receiving $40,000 in benefits (which I’d imagine would be health insurance but I’m not sure what else that includes). The pastor is a great guy and serves the congregation well. I just think maybe there are also positives to being able to devote more money directly toward ministries and outreach.

I’m thankful for the gift of priestly celibacy. Somebody remind me of the verse from Corinthians that says a married man has to worry about pleasing his wife but a single man only has to worry about pleasing God. If we change the rules, aren’t we giving into our culture who has created a false god out of sex, and saying Yes i’ll give ANYTHING up to serve God… but not sex!

I would imagine that arrangements could be made for Catholic Universities to give a tuition break for the children of priests.

But, even without that, a family of 4+ with a cash income of <$50,000 will get substantial financial aid or scholarships at most any University. With that income, I doubt the family would be asked to contribute more than a few thousand dollars a year. Most places, they would be expected to contribute almost zero.

God Bless

 

[maryjk]

I just don’t think money would be that big an issue for married priests.

The single biggest expense of every family is housing. The priest would have free housing. Many, if not most parishes have rectories far larger than is needed for the priest they have today. It would be easy to make an apartment for a priest’s family.

Parishes currently cover all the utilities and maintenance for the rectory; nothing would change there. The food bill would go up, but you probably wouldn’t need a cook or housekeeper, so that’s a big savings.

With housing, utilities and food basically free, you wouldn’t have to pay the priest all that much, for him to be able to support a family.

God Bless

Housing would be a problem for our parish.

Yes, we have a rectory. But two priests live there. It is a three bedroom house. Unless the priest had a very small family, there wouldn’t be “easy to make an apartment” for his family.

We would have to buy or build a house for a married pastor. And I don’t think we have a few hundred thousand dollars just waiting in the wings.

 

[EasterJoy]

If the Roman Church changes the discipline and allows married clergy, it will surely be like the Eastern Orthodox, who ordain both married and unmarried men to the priesthood, but don’t allow any of the married ones to remarry if their wives die. I would expect it will be older men, as is presently the case with permanent deacons and clergy from other denominations who convert.

Every wife of a permanent deacon I have talked to is thankful her husband is not a pastor.

 

[Brendan]

I think that is true. Our parish does not have a rectory and our priest graciously provides his own. If that were provided, he would still need to work a second job, but not as much as he does now. .

I know an Orthdox priest who worked in my company’s IT dept. He is out in WA state, where there are few Orthodox, so it’s a small parish. He has 5 kids.

He actually left our company a year ago. He had gotten his teaching certificate and now teaches at a High School and local Community college,

 

[babochka]

Ehhh, I’m not sure it’s sinful. Maybe judgmental, but not exactly sinful. And I would be sympathetic to such a complaint.

I’m not sure how something can be judgmental, but not sinful. I’m sad to think that you would be sympathetic to the complaint. Frankly, if my priest’s kids get something new and costly, I assume it came from Grandma and Grandpa, and usually it does. It is really none of my business, though. My priest recently turned down a gift of a fairly late model luxury car. His current vehicle has over 200,000 miles on it and is pretty beaten up, but he was worried that it would look inappropriate for him to drive a fancy car. I disagreed, but I guess the world is full of people who will assume the worst about some situation or another.

I don’t disagree at all. But I’m tellin’ ya, if you were to go to some of the small industrial/manufacturing towns in my state, you’d realize what a tremendous culture shift it might take for the people to accept.

I agree here. I think any change would have to be made gradually and organically, just as the change to mandatory celibacy happened a thousand years ago. When it was finally mandated universally (in the west), it had really been in place for a long time. If such a change were to occur again, I think it would be because the exception had become the rule and the church was just formalizing what had already occurred. It certainly wouldn’t be a sudden shift and people’s attitudes would have shifted along with the situation. Again, I’m not advocating this for the west, but it could happen, over the course of a couple hundred years.

 

[bilop]

Housing would be a problem for our parish.

Yes, we have a rectory. But two priests live there. It is a three bedroom house. Unless the priest had a very small family, there wouldn’t be “easy to make an apartment” for his family.

We would have to buy or build a house for a married pastor. And I don’t think we have a few hundred thousand dollars just waiting in the wings.

Well, if you got a married pastor, they might assign only one priest to your parish (and maybe bring in a non-resident retired priest to help on Sundays). Many, many parishes have only one priest. It’s actually the norm in Church history law.

Or add a small addition for the 2nd priest. Adding a bedroom, bath and sitting area certainly wouldn’t cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

A family of any size can fit in a 3 bedroom house. 1 BDR for the parents, 1 for the boys and 1 for the girls.

God Bless