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Catherinabird
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Being in a similar situation, I wouldn’t treat it lightly either. But I also understand defending him when he’s acting nicer and normal again.
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Xantippe
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Wellll, but does the nastiness get the OP to tiptoe around him? Does it get him his way?
Also, does the pattern of behavior look something like this diagram?
hiddenhurt.co.uk/cycle_of_abuse.html
The nasty-nice pattern is actually more of a bad sign than a good sign.
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Catherinabird
Guest
That’s what I meant actually. I’m just saying I understand the flip flopping and now the defending. Not saying it’s a good thing. I wasn’t really very clear beyond offering understanding. I should have asked if she was now trying to defend him to us only because he is acting nicer again. If she’s anything like me, I always start to forget how awful something was as soon as things seem good and calm. It’s confusing, so I understand how she’s now defending him, even if maybe she shouldn’t be. I’m not saying it is right.
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Irishmom2
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OP, if anything, I think this thread has served to open your eyes a bit and allow you to view your husband through a different perspective. If you can keep this new view in mind when interacting with your husband and in making decisions, I think things will change for the better for your family.
I do think that you should still consider employment for yourself if even part time. I think that being out among other people will help you not feel so isolated socially. Your husband needs to learn that he is responsible for you feeling that way, and should make efforts to connect with you that way by spending time with you after work and not with friends.
I would ignore the comments about you flipping things now that your husband apologized. Everyone deserves a chance to be forgiven. You may have done so in the past, but not with what you have learned from this thread, and what you have now said to and learned **from **your husband. It is a new beginning and I wish you every happiness.
Do keep the counseling for a while, it will make you and your marriage stronger.
I do think that you should still consider employment for yourself if even part time. I think that being out among other people will help you not feel so isolated socially. Your husband needs to learn that he is responsible for you feeling that way, and should make efforts to connect with you that way by spending time with you after work and not with friends.
I would ignore the comments about you flipping things now that your husband apologized. Everyone deserves a chance to be forgiven. You may have done so in the past, but not with what you have learned from this thread, and what you have now said to and learned **from **your husband. It is a new beginning and I wish you every happiness.
Do keep the counseling for a while, it will make you and your marriage stronger.
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Xantippe
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Come to think of it, OP, I would suggest that you read “Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men.” It’s about how anger is often manipulative.
I would like to think that isn’t your husband, but the pattern you mention (nice while getting his way, angry and nasty when thwarted) is concerning.
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guiltycatholic
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I’ve already written two replies only to have it all lost before I can hit submit. Hopefully third time’s the charm!
I’m taking all this advice with a grain of salt. I came here to vent and ask for advice - that’s what I’ve gotten. I’m grateful to those who have taken the time to read and pray and reply. There’s only so much people can tell from a one-sided perspective online, so naturally not all the opinions apply to me. That’s ok. I’ve gained a new perspective from y’all and it’s helped me feel less alone through this process. I’m going to get counseling from a trained professional who can do a more in depth psychoanalysis, rather than spitballing with people on a forum about my husband’s and my mental health.
As far as the direct sales thing goes, I’m not trying to support the family with it or make arguments about direct sales in general. I have a separate account where all the money for it comes in and out, so it doesn’t cost us anything from his paycheck. I run it as a business and therefor we have a ton of tax writeoffs we wouldn’t have otherwise. Plus all the benefits of a hobby I really enjoy that isn’t related to the kids. There’s no down side. Husband only brings it up in an argument, otherwise he’s supportive. We need to address that, I am aware.
I’m taking all this advice with a grain of salt. I came here to vent and ask for advice - that’s what I’ve gotten. I’m grateful to those who have taken the time to read and pray and reply. There’s only so much people can tell from a one-sided perspective online, so naturally not all the opinions apply to me. That’s ok. I’ve gained a new perspective from y’all and it’s helped me feel less alone through this process. I’m going to get counseling from a trained professional who can do a more in depth psychoanalysis, rather than spitballing with people on a forum about my husband’s and my mental health.
As far as the direct sales thing goes, I’m not trying to support the family with it or make arguments about direct sales in general. I have a separate account where all the money for it comes in and out, so it doesn’t cost us anything from his paycheck. I run it as a business and therefor we have a ton of tax writeoffs we wouldn’t have otherwise. Plus all the benefits of a hobby I really enjoy that isn’t related to the kids. There’s no down side. Husband only brings it up in an argument, otherwise he’s supportive. We need to address that, I am aware.
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Xantippe
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Careful about the write-off thing.
“The IRS presumes that an activity is carried on for profit if it makes a profit during at least three of the last five tax years, including the current year…”
“If an activity is not for profit, losses from that activity may not be used to offset other income. An activity produces a loss when related expenses exceed income.”
irs.gov/uac/business-or-hobby-answer-has-implications-for-deductions
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Irishmom2
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Why did you feel the need to post this? You do not know enough about her business to suggest this, and it is quite off topic.
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Xantippe
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No, it’s not off-topic at all. The OP just mentioned that the direct sales thing is a hobby and also mentioned the benefit of write-offs.Why did you feel the need to post this? You do not know enough about her business to suggest this, and it is quite off topic.
So, it is important for her to know (if she doesn’t already) that if the direct sales qualifies as a hobby under IRS rules, then she isn’t allowed to use the write-offs from the direct sales business against the rest of her household income.
It may not be relevant to her current situation, but it may be going forward.
The consequences of running afoul of the IRS are so unpleasant that I had to mention it, even if the OP probably has everything under control.
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bitterhope
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Most people think of these things and receive help at tax time from actual in real life people.
Sewing, crochet, and other fiber crafts are my hobby. It is a very wonderful experience to turn your hobby into a business. Instead of me needing to pay for my hobby it helps to pay my family. Most small, home businesses are more hobby than profitable and done for reasons other than money. It’s a very good way for people to keep peace and satisfaction and isn’t done for the profits or getting ahead. Very few of us will ever be able to get more than “grocery money” or “fun money” (or in my case “shoe money for the kids”) but it provides a much needed sense of satisfaction to our lives. It is the joy of accomplishing something that we did that isn’t undone in 15 minutes. It’s seeing results of our work without needing to wait 30 prayerful years in order to know if our work was enough. Not all positive results can be measured in monetary terms.
My husband works very hard for our family and carries the financial burden for my “business”
where I sell crafts at farmers market. Occasionally I do commissioned works, but I am moving farther from that the older the kids get. It’s too time consuming. We are living just at the poverty line now, possibly slightly above (yay!!! It took us a long time to feel that relief), but even in years my business costs us instead of floats us, my husband sees it as a very necessary living expense. He would never ask me to give that up. He knows the benefit of me crafting far outweighs any and all financial issues it may incur for us. It’s value can never have a monetary value. Just the stress relief and the mental/emotional/spiritual break and renewal it provides to be able to do something unrelated to being a wife and mother make it necessary. I can’t even imagine not having this during deployments and other times of separation but I imagine it contributes to many families’ problems because people feel unfulfilled and overburdened with no escape. No amount of money saved is worth placing a spouse in that position. My husband has his own hobbies that he spends time on. His produce absolutely no money for us but it really doesn’t cost anything either. If it did cost us, it’s still a needed expense. He includes the kids in his hobbies as well so it’s more family time and a great way of bonding. Once again, no money can make giving that up worth it.
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Xantippe
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Many people do tax software these days or just do the forms themselves. It looks like about 43% of people use those two options–which is a lot of people.
gobankingrates.com/personal-finance/43-percent-americans-file-taxes-comfort-home-survey-finds/
The hobby-business thing is a sticky point that a lot of people wouldn’t be aware of. It’s on my radar because I have a lot of farming relatives, and if they lose too much money on the farm, the farm starts counting as a hobby not a business and they aren’t able to use the write-offs against their primary income.
The financial aspect isn’t the only side to doing a hobby, but one does need to be aware of what the costs are, especially in a situation like the OP is with her husband, where funds are limited and they have a lot of conflict over spending.
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bitterhope
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You do realize MOST people do not have tax issues or any type of trouble with the IRS right? Most people tend to take care of things correctly. And if MOST don’t, then the IRS is very bad at doing their job and not cashing in on their mistakes.
My family is full of small scale farmers too. I don’t see it as my place to even think about their tax or financial planning or any of their economic situations. Most people consider that private information.
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guiltycatholic
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Yes, this. Hobbies cost money but they’re worth it. In addition to all the benefits she mentions I’ve also noticed growth in myself, like confidence in speaking with other adults, a great bond with other people in the business, and creativity in coming up with business straegies that work. Not to mention keeping my sanity by giving me something besides housework to do. And anyway, my hobby pays for itself. I can’t speak for others. I’m speaking for myself. It’s doing really well. It’s still in the early stages (1.5 years) but I have a great customer base and a few people under me, so I don’t have to use his paycheck to fund my business. It’s a priority in my life.
I agree my personal finances are way off topic and semi none of anyone’s business here. But I’ll go ahead and say we get our taxes professionally done and there are no issues precisely because I run my business as a business. Not just a hobby. I do make profits - all I do with them is reinvest into the business and sometimes get a coffee. The write offs I take are for things like mileage, postage, training, and vendor fees to do a show, not buying more product for myself. I am very serious about running this as a business and my success shows it. Of course there were startup costs, but it’s not costing the family anything now except some of my time. And it is well worth it. For me personally it’s insulting and discouraging when I’m working hard and having this much success for my husband to blow it off as “just a hobby.”
Again, the only time he takes issue with it is when we argue, and then he says I prioritize it above the children/cleaning house which just isn’t true. Many times the house gets cleaned because customers are coming over for a workshop! I have mentioned it to him in the past day or two as a topic we need to discuss now that we’re on good terms again. He was noncommittal but we’ll get there.
The counselor yesterday told me to make a list of specific things I need, because part of the problem may be I’m too vague and indirect in communicating that to him. That can cause him to shut down because he feels burdened to try to figure out what exactly I want, or he assumes I’m already getting what I want. And it also gives me clarity to know the key things to work toward, and be able to recognize progress. I’m going to start her, and you can bet “allowed” time for my business will be on the list of needs.
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guiltycatholic
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I don’t know anything about taxes in regard to farming, but with direct sales this is a non issue. I also have a team leader who’s been doing this for 20+ years guiding me, as well as professional tax advisors. My leader does this as her full time job, is at the top of the company, earns all the incentive trips and everything. And I’m building my business the way she’s teaching me.
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Xantippe
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I have to say at this point that if your profits cover more reinvesting in the business and an occasional cup of coffee–there are almost no profits.
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bitterhope
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That’s none of your concern. Why try to shame people when it comes to money issues (and other things)? Money isn’t the most important thing in the world and it isn’t the key to happiness in family life for most of us. Small scale hobbies/home businesses are a much better way to “blow money” or make “almost no profits” than playing the lottery, drinking, running around with friends, ignoring children for your own personal down time, neglecting housework that’s necessary, and many other “coping techniques” that people use that don’t really help. Far less depression and anxiety occurs in people who have hobbies they enjoy. That alone makes it worth it. Almost no profits is still profitable, especially when combined with increased confidence, happiness, satisfaction in life, etc. Besides, we don’t know, nor should we need to know, how much money she produces for her family. That being said, it would be awfully nice for many people I know in real life to have cash on hand for a cup of coffee with friends even just once a month, and I enjoy being able to buy shoes for my kids without tapping into grocery funds.
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pensmama87
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A few of my favorite posts from Pink Truth about MLM “businesses” (The website started out as an expose of Mary Kay in particular, but most of the facts apply to other MLMs and direct sales company who use similar tactics and compensation schemes):
Myth of MLM Income Opportunity: 99% Lose Money in MLM
Mary Kay is Not a Business
What is Multi-Level Marketing?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a hobby. But the OP would do well to recognize that her credibility is damaged by being sucked into one of these companies, in a way that is very different than if she made her own products or provided her own services. I’ve been in MLMs twice and I know their predatory tactics well, and I know the lines and scripts they teach people to get them to stay even when it’s not in their best interest to do so. If you aren’t financially struggling and you really love a product and sign up for the discount, well, OK (though I’d argue in most cases you can find something similar elsewhere or at least shop on eBay for it from consultants who have wisened up and need to ditch their inventory for whatever they can get.) But it is not a wise endeavor for anybody who is financially struggling.
Of course, the OP can do what she wants, and she probably will. But it’s not mean to say direct sales is a losing proposition - because it is.
Myth of MLM Income Opportunity: 99% Lose Money in MLM
Mary Kay is Not a Business
What is Multi-Level Marketing?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a hobby. But the OP would do well to recognize that her credibility is damaged by being sucked into one of these companies, in a way that is very different than if she made her own products or provided her own services. I’ve been in MLMs twice and I know their predatory tactics well, and I know the lines and scripts they teach people to get them to stay even when it’s not in their best interest to do so. If you aren’t financially struggling and you really love a product and sign up for the discount, well, OK (though I’d argue in most cases you can find something similar elsewhere or at least shop on eBay for it from consultants who have wisened up and need to ditch their inventory for whatever they can get.) But it is not a wise endeavor for anybody who is financially struggling.
Of course, the OP can do what she wants, and she probably will. But it’s not mean to say direct sales is a losing proposition - because it is.
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Xantippe
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The OP’s thread is largely about money problems. So, yeah, the subject of money is going to come up in a money thread.
She sees her husband as spending irresponsibly, which it sounds like he is. But (fairly or unfairly) her direct sales involvement may be undermining her credibility with her husband when she talks to him about their finances and her need for free time. Remember, the original subject of the thread was her inability to get her husband to give her free time. So, it looks like 1) the direct sales stuff is not giving her enough of a break and 2) it doesn’t provide enough income to pay for childcare.
One of the special issues with direct sales is that (unlike your crafts hobby) there are usually a lot of pressures to increase other personal spending in order to act the part of the successful business person so as to recruit people to work under you, to acquire a large inventory, to meet sales quotas, etc. Pensmama’s Pink Truth site talks a lot about how this works.
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ConfusedLucy
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As long as you keep some sort of record of ingoings and outgoings (I keep a spreadsheet) and live within your means I don’t see the problem with spending money on a hobby.
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