Married to someone that doesn't feel empathy

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You may find this as an inspiration to separate yourself mentally and emotionally from the entire situation. I’m not recommending staying, or leaving, and only you in prayer can discern the wisdom of either course. I am, however, recommending that you do whatever you need to do to take care of yourself and your children, and sometimes that requires a lot of clarity and boundary maintenance.

panhala.net/Archive/The_Journey.html

However you choose to handle this, stay as close to Our Lord and your faith as you possibly can: That, more than anything else, will put you in the best possible spiritual and emotional condition for what may very well turn out to be the struggle of your life. And know that my prayers are with you for a good outcome for all concerned.
 
I really, really struggle not to just tell people in this situation to get away as fast and as far as they can, even including children. Lives can be repaired, reconstructed, but the sociopaths and narcissists continue to damage as long as you are in their orbit. From where I stand, almost anything is better than the destruction they wreak. There are wounds they create that will never, ever heal, and these wounds carry on into the next generation. Wounded people wound other people. And it goes on, and on. Even if there are no sociopaths in the next generation, the children will still feel and experience the disease for themselves. Their parents will have been wounded, and those wounds cannot heal if the sociopath is alive and near enough to be a problem (they could be on the other side of the planet and still be a problem).

I mean, it’s not as though the children will ever have a real parent in a sociopath - that person has no concept of motherhood or fatherhood - the children are just things to be used and discarded, as with everything else in a sociopath’s life. So getting away is actually like amputating an extra toe - it might hurt for a few minutes but will help you walk better in the long run.

If I knew then what I know now, I would run away. The damage has already been done, unfortunately, and I am living with the results. It is sometimes difficult to face that someone close to you actually cares nothing at all about you and can turn on you at any moment. A normal person keeps giving them the benefit of the doubt, over and over, until the truth just about jumps up and hits you in the head. Eventually they show so much of their true colors that you can no longer deny it. But by that time, you can no longer undo the damage.

That is why I really want to say to the OP, “GET OUT NOW! while you still can! Save your children and yourself!” Knowing of course, that the advice is not practical…

😦
 
yeah. but for a guy it’s different because of custody and stuff. so nothing I can really do.
 
yeah. but for a guy it’s different because of custody and stuff. so nothing I can really do.
I’m sure that must be even more frustrating. The ideal would be if you could get them away, get custody legally, and prevent any contact without strict supervision. That’s not likely to happen, I know.

I will put you in my prayers. Try to limit damage. If you can get healthy role models into your children’s lives by any means, please do. If your family is healthy, spend more time with them. Any balance will help show the children who their mother really is. As they grow up, you must be honest with them, and teach them how to manage their mother and limit her damage. No, kids should not have to do this, but it’s kind of like growing up with a tiger in the house - you have to learn how to stay as safe as you can with the animal you have as a parent.

I don’t mean to be so brutal, I really don’t, but having seen first-hand what this sort of person does to others, I am sick at heart that more children get messed up every day by this, only to carry it on into their own lives in some form or another.

I don’t know if your spouse has always been this way and the headiness of power has just brought it to the forefront, or if there is hope she has just gone astray and can recover. Only you can figure that out. If there is hope, please hang onto it, but be straight with yourself about that, and not in denial. Better to know exactly what you face than keep trying to fool yourself.
 
yeah. but for a guy it’s different because of custody and stuff. so nothing I can really do.
You may be right. In fact, knowing what I know about people without a conscience, I would inquire with a lawyer in my home state about how to keep my sociopathic spouse from unexpectedly divorcing me and taking the kids out from under my protection, just in case I unwittingly angered my spouse or made my spouse feel his/her “action plan” was threatened or otherwise stopped being an advantage to her, leading to me being pitched unceremoniously to the side of the road. After all, if your protection of them ever turns your spouse’s nose out of shape, you could be toasted and spit out before you even knew the toaster was plugged in.
 
You may be right. In fact, knowing what I know about people without a conscience, I would inquire with a lawyer in my home state about how to keep my sociopathic spouse from unexpectedly divorcing me and taking the kids out from under my protection, just in case I unwittingly angered my spouse or made my spouse feel his/her “action plan” was threatened or otherwise stopped being an advantage to her, leading to me being pitched unceremoniously to the side of the road. After all, if your protection of them ever turns your spouse’s nose out of shape, you could be toasted and spit out before you even knew the toaster was plugged in.
Totally 100% agree with this. ALWAYS have a plan and a bottom line. Get good legal advice. There’s a firm that advertises here, I think it’s out of St. Louis, that caters to men in divorce, they might be able to advise you, or direct you to another firm where you are. I would definitely spend the time and money to get a plan in place. Know what you are going to do “just in case.” Protect your assets too.
 
yeah. but for a guy it’s different because of custody and stuff. so nothing I can really do.
There are things you can do. You may or may not be successful (in the short term), but whether you try is up to you.

I made lots of mistakes, but I did a few things right, and was given custody of my kids. Of course, divorce is not inevitable. I hope that it doesn’t come to that for you.

You are in my prayers,

~ Edmundus
 
Of course, divorce is not inevitable. I hope that it doesn’t come to that for you.
Right. Theoretically, a sociopath can have a true, lasting, and correct intention to honor the bonds of marriage. You don’t have to feel a certain way in order to have the capacity to be faithful or to meet your obligations in life. If you are a sociopath, though, you do have to have morals that aren’t based on emotional connection or anticipated feelings of remorse. There has to be something concrete upon which to found your intentions.
 
yes that is right, they have a sense of morals but not it’s based on emotion so it can work. One of the main things I have found is not to show weakness, at least as much as possible. That seems to set off an attack response. Someone used the analogy of a snake in another post. Yes it is kind of like living with a predatory energy. A counsellor I talked to used the analogy of a lion. A lion won’t attack something that it thinks will give it too much trouble, but if something looks weak it will eat it.
 
Right. Theoretically, a sociopath can have a true, lasting, and correct intention to honor the bonds of marriage. You don’t have to feel a certain way in order to have the capacity to be faithful or to meet your obligations in life. If you are a sociopath, though, you do have to have morals that aren’t based on emotional connection or anticipated feelings of remorse. There has to be something concrete upon which to found your intentions.
I’ll add my two cents. Since I’m home from work sick today.

It is not entirely true that a sociopath doesn’t “feel” things whether it’s empathy, remorse, compassion, happiness, etc. We do in fact experience the same sort of feelings that others do, it’s just much more shallow. It may come much more slowly, last only briefly, and then the experience might fade from our memory all together.

With the tough talk on this thread about getting the heck out of dodge it shouldn’t be hard to imagine why it is difficult for us to feel any sort of compassion or remorse for you. Most of us, whether sociopath or psychopath, don’t just grow up with a lack of “feelings”, we grow up with a lack of an understanding of the experience of feelings. It profoundly effects our behavior in negative ways, not because we are intentional mean-spirited, but the illusion that everyone else experiences things in the same way we do.

And everyone is guilty of that much - believing that everyone experiences things the same way they do.

It’s like attempting to convince someone who has always been blind that the flower they’re holding is purple. If you have never seen the color purple, you can not conceptualize it, it makes no sense whatsoever.

If you were, for example, to do something damaging to a person who suffers from this disorder you are now dealing with someone who will not understand that the offense rose from anger, a heat of the moment decision, or brief moment emotional instability. They are going to perceive this as a intentional action, with all the force of cool premeditated informed consent. I am not claiming here that a sociopath doesn’t have a hot temper or emotional instability, but that it’s so fleeting that it doesn’t figure into the equation (i.e. it doesn’t stick). Finally you have to deal with the reality that all those hurt feelings you display, crying, shock and the like, are considered an attempt to further manipulate the situation.

It is inconceivable for us, in most cases, that someone can actually be damaged by behaviors long term.

But more important then anything, the thing everyone passes over because it doesn’t directly effect THEM, is that we also don’t experience happiness or joy or excitement like most people do. We get nothing “emotional” out of anything we do. Whether it’s truly helping someone at the end of their rope and deep in despair or, reducing someone to tears. We are aware that people get satisfaction doing these things, so most of us get caught up in chasing satisfaction we may never get. That’s where the risky behavior figures in.

All because we’ve been told our entire lives that we have to be this way, and feel that way to be normal. It would have been far more productive to say, “Hey it’s ok for you to be in this situation, but here are the drawbacks and the things you will need to be cautious of”.

You might try, if you’re running into road blocks, to explain the reasoning behind your actions that provoke her. Otherwise she might think you’re intentionally trying to manipulate her or deceive her. It’s worked for my husband and I for 10 years.

And if someone did attempt to go behind my back to take my children away, for any reason… Well, lets not go there. I strongly discourage that.
 
…It is not entirely true that a sociopath doesn’t “feel” things whether it’s empathy, remorse, compassion, happiness, etc. We do in fact experience the same sort of feelings that others do, it’s just much more shallow. It may come much more slowly, last only briefly, and then the experience might fade from our memory all together.

With the tough talk on this thread about getting the heck out of dodge it shouldn’t be hard to imagine why it is difficult for us to feel any sort of compassion or remorse for you. Most of us, whether sociopath or psychopath, don’t just grow up with a lack of “feelings”, we grow up with a lack of an understanding of the experience of feelings. It profoundly effects our behavior in negative ways, not because we are intentional mean-spirited, but the illusion that everyone else experiences things in the same way we do.

And everyone is guilty of that much - believing that everyone experiences things the same way they do.

It’s like attempting to convince someone who has always been blind that the flower they’re holding is purple. If you have never seen the color purple, you can not conceptualize it, it makes no sense whatsoever.

If you were, for example, to do something damaging to a person who suffers from this disorder you are now dealing with someone who will not understand that the offense rose from anger, a heat of the moment decision, or brief moment emotional instability. They are going to perceive this as a intentional action, with all the force of cool premeditated informed consent. I am not claiming here that a sociopath doesn’t have a hot temper or emotional instability, but that it’s so fleeting that it doesn’t figure into the equation (i.e. it doesn’t stick). Finally you have to deal with the reality that all those hurt feelings you display, crying, shock and the like, are considered an attempt to further manipulate the situation.

It is inconceivable for us, in most cases, that someone can actually be damaged by behaviors long term.

But more important then anything, the thing everyone passes over because it doesn’t directly effect THEM, is that we also don’t experience happiness or joy or excitement like most people do. We get nothing “emotional” out of anything we do. Whether it’s truly helping someone at the end of their rope and deep in despair or, reducing someone to tears. We are aware that people get satisfaction doing these things, so most of us get caught up in chasing satisfaction we may never get. That’s where the risky behavior figures in.

All because we’ve been told our entire lives that we have to be this way, and feel that way to be normal. It would have been far more productive to say, “Hey it’s ok for you to be in this situation, but here are the drawbacks and the things you will need to be cautious of”.

You might try, if you’re running into road blocks, to explain the reasoning behind your actions that provoke her. Otherwise she might think you’re intentionally trying to manipulate her or deceive her. It’s worked for my husband and I for 10 years.

And if someone did attempt to go behind my back to take my children away, for any reason… Well, lets not go there. I strongly discourage that.
Exactly. I need to clarify what I mean by saying that a sociopath is relatively more reptilian…I mean emotionally. There is no intellectual incapacity involved, and in fact I would suspect that a sociopath is less likely to have their intellect clouded by emotion. I think that sociopaths ought to be treated more as if their eyes saw on a different wavelength than as if having a reduced emotional capacity makes you less able to operate as a human being. Sociopaths can be as just and prudent as anyone else.

It has been suggested that one of the the reasons that overt sociopathic behavior is more rare in countries in Asia is because morals are usually not taught there to have a “how would that feel for you” underpinning. There is more of a concrete foundation upon which morals are taught, an understanding that wrong behavior does not become right if you can only make your victim feel good about it and right behavior does not become wrong because as soon as it produces negative or difficult feelings or impedes good feelings that you could be having. That is not just a danger for sociopaths. That is a danger for everybody.

The truth is, the objective standpoint, practically speaking, is a more correct and sure understanding of morals. People who have an emotional conscience too often guide themselves wrong by relying on it as their total moral compass. They may easily do as much damage as a sociopath, and the damage they leave in their wake is not less damaging because they can “feel bad” about it. It may also be that our Romantic societal concentration on experiencing feelings as how one experiences life leaves sociopaths particularly vulnerable to over-pursuit of risky behaviors, as well. A life well-lived is far more than the highs that were felt at the time.

Having said that, there are sociopaths who have learned by their upbringing to use pretended emotions to manipulate others. They have no moral underpinnings because they were taught morals based on a capacity they don’t have and can’t understand very well in others, rather than having morals founded on capacities that they do have. I’m not saying that emotions have no moral value, only that people who don’t have that capacity–and even people who do–are very ill-served by the way emotions are given such undue weight when teaching morals to children.

And YES…even if his wife is a sociopath, that does not mean she deserves to lose her children! It does mean that her husband needs to understand the differences in how she sees the world and, taking that with the totality of her character and moral formation, be ready for what that might bring.
 
FWIW, I have read over and over that if a child has one loving parent, they will turn out ok.
 
FWIW, I have read over and over that if a child has one loving parent, they will turn out ok.
We are a fallen race, and no matter who our parents are, there is no guarantee that any of us will turn out “OK”. Because of grace, neither does poor parenting from both sides doom us.
 
Thanks for your honest explanation Keralz. It makes sense. Basically it’s somewhat like dealing with Data from star trek. So can you feel some emotions enough that you to get set off by them? I mean can a sociopath have a temper. I said before I don’t like to use the word sociopath because it’s too cut and dry. Anyway Usually I don’t communicate what my motivation is for anything because I assume that it is obvious so i need to look at that carefully. Nobody is taking anyones kids away or leaving anyone here. I love this person regardless.
 
Thanks for your honest explanation Keralz. It makes sense. Basically it’s somewhat like dealing with Data from star trek. So can you feel some emotions enough that you to get set off by them? I mean can a sociopath have a temper. I said before I don’t like to use the word sociopath because it’s too cut and dry. Anyway Usually I don’t communicate what my motivation is for anything because I assume that it is obvious so i need to look at that carefully. Nobody is taking anyones kids away or leaving anyone here. I love this person regardless.
No it’s not like dealing with Data from Star Trek. Data really cannot experience emotions. Sociopaths do. There just isn’t a strong connection between a violent outburst of emotion and future decision making. You could be yelled at for something trivial and then in the next breath, asked if you’re ready to go get that pizza. If you react negatively I bet there’s almost some amount of disgust as to why on earth you’re upset.

It might be more precise to say that we grow up with a lack of an understanding of the experience of feelings and how those feelings effect decision making. But that is just a small part of it…
 
No it’s not like dealing with Data from Star Trek. Data really cannot experience emotions. Sociopaths do. There just isn’t a strong connection between a violent outburst of emotion and future decision making. You could be yelled at for something trivial and then in the next breath, asked if you’re ready to go get that pizza. If you react negatively I bet there’s almost some amount of disgust as to why on earth you’re upset.

It might be more precise to say that we grow up with a lack of an understanding of the experience of feelings and how those feelings effect decision making. But that is just a small part of it…
Your description of your emotions and your response to them reminds me of shows I’ve seen about serial murderers…sociopaths. They get very angry at their victims, kill out of that anger, and then can go home and be “normal” with their families, go out to dinner, etc. The previous violence has not affected them in the same way it would someone who isn’t a sociopath. I guess it’s like a storm - something that just happens and then is gone…
 
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