Married with no kids still fruitful? (Not infertile)

[augustinegirl]

I know that God wants us to be fruitful and multiply in our vocation…but is it possible that there are just people who are unfit to be parents? I guess I’d assume that if one is unfit to be a parent, he/she would be unfit to be married as well…is that correct? I’m not referring to infertile couples, and I know we can’t use anything but natural planning methods do I’d assume it’s impossible, but I’m curious. I guess I ask because I’ve heard people say their own parents were unfit to be parents and obviously it’s good that the children are alive but it made me think. Is this even possible? Haha

 

[Blessedwithfive]

Yes, some people really shouldn’t reproduce. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

 

[jinglebelle]

You are and always fruitful with life and experience,live it

 

[LisaB]

I guess I’d assume that if one is unfit to be a parent, he/she would be unfit to be married as well…is that correct?

Could depend on circumstances but for the most part, yes, this is correct. If a couple had health issues for example that would constitute a serious reason not to have children, that could be an exception, or another serious reason like this. But to marry with an intention never to have children because one thinks they wouldn’t make a good parent could potentially invalidate the marriage.

 

[Vico]

I know that God wants us to be fruitful and multiply in our vocation…but is it possible that there are just people who are unfit to be parents? I guess I’d assume that if one is unfit to be a parent, he/she would be unfit to be married as well…is that correct? I’m not referring to infertile couples, and I know we can’t use anything but natural planning methods do I’d assume it’s impossible, but I’m curious. I guess I ask because I’ve heard people say their own parents were unfit to be parents and obviously it’s good that the children are alive but it made me think. Is this even possible? Haha

Well, change occurs to people over time, so some make improvements and others get worse, and that can be spiritually, mentally, or physically, so some could be fit a one time and not at another. And it is not necessary to marry.

However St. Paul thought is best not to marry (1 Cor. 7) unless one could not contain, i.e., to avoid fornication. And Our Lord said in the Gospel of Matthew 19
11 Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.

 

[TK421]

It’s a difficult question to answer but generally speaking, there is no such thing as a person who “shouldn’t reproduce”. Primarily because it is hard to delineate where this alleged line is, and it easily turns into a case of eugenics where any slight problem supposedly means that a person shouldn’t reproduce. Moreover, it devalues life in saying that possible complications means that life isn’t worth being brought into this world. A culture that deems hardships as making life not worth living is a defeatist culture, not a Christian culture. A defeatist culture is constantly looking for excuses to deem life too risky, or too inconvenient, or too hard, but the only thing in the world that makes it better to not have been born is the rejection of grace, and that is because the spiritual life of the person is executed and the universal vocation (to love) is lost forever.

It’s always true that a person might be better prepared for children after X point, but this is also fallacious because nobody is ever really ready for children, or for religious life, or for priesthood, and that is because we are in a state of being sanctified until the day we die, or at least we ought to be. “Being sanctified” means “to be made holy”. “To be made holy” means, “to become a better version of yourself”. So, the cases where it would be better not to have children are grave cases of sin, not venial sin. For example, if you have no intention of raising & taking care of the child, then it is good not to have a child. But, if sinful means are used to not have that child, then it is still wrong to do those actions, though perhaps not as wrong as otherwise completely ignoring future consequences.

That being said:

A marriage is good from the instant the sacrament is given, even without children, and even if the marriage never produces children. “Be fruitful and multiply” is the first command in the Bible and it is a foreshadowing of the superlative version of this command, which is to spread the Gospel to others. “Gospel” means “Good News”. The Gospel, when it is heard and brought into practice, brings a person into the Beatific Vision; to eternal life with God. To desire and bring eternal life to another person is to will the highest good for them. “To will the good of another” is to love, and “to will the highest good of another” is to love perfectly. People of all vocations, including [and often especially] those who do not bring children into the world are able to fulfill the command “be fruitful and multiply”.

 

[JoyousCatholic]

It could be that you are called to have children…or maybe not. It could also be that perhaps God wants you to focus on other things, on other forms of motherhood before blessing you with biological motherhood.

This article can help ----->> owl.li/Yu7L30dF20N

 

[angell1]

I know that God wants us to be fruitful and multiply in our vocation…but is it possible that there are just people who are unfit to be parents? I guess I’d assume that if one is unfit to be a parent, he/she would be unfit to be married as well…is that correct? I’m not referring to infertile couples, and I know we can’t use anything but natural planning methods do I’d assume it’s impossible, but I’m curious. I guess I ask because I’ve heard people say their own parents were unfit to be parents and obviously it’s good that the children are alive but it ma stop from making wrong decisionsde me think. Is this even possible? Haha

well yes, logically it would follow that not everyone who is married was called to be. same goes for priests.

for example, parents who severely abuse their children, or neglect them. I highly doubt they were called to marriage and parenthood in the first place.

or pedophiles who used the priesthood so that could get closer to vulnerable populations. this is not a true vocation.

people should be discerning more, but sadly this is not the case. MOst people thinking getting married is the norm and what everyone is supposed to do. however, god doesn’t stop us from making wrong choices.

yes, the bible and traditionally the church both teach that being unmarried is the better option.

 

[TK421]

people should be discerning more, but sadly this is not the case. MOst people thinking getting married is the norm and what everyone is supposed to do. however, god doesn’t stop us from making wrong choices.

There is a vocation crisis of marriage in the West (along with the vocation crisis of priests and religious).

Sacramental marriage is no longer the norm.

There is no such thing as marriage being a wrong choice. It can be - for certain people - a less good choice, but it’s impossible for it to be a wrong choice.

 

[jcrichton]

I know that God wants us to be fruitful and multiply in our vocation…but is it possible that there are just people who are unfit to be parents? I guess I’d assume that if one is unfit to be a parent, he/she would be unfit to be married as well…is that correct? I’m not referring to infertile couples, and I know we can’t use anything but natural planning methods do I’d assume it’s impossible, but I’m curious. I guess I ask because I’ve heard people say their own parents were unfit to be parents and obviously it’s good that the children are alive but it made me think. Is this even possible? Haha

Hi!

…you’ve hit on several different values…

Does God keep people from having offspring? …that would be controlling; …just look at the number of abortions performed worldwide…

Are some people unfit to be parents? …yes, people are having abortions, mistreating, abandoning and killing their children; people are more concerned with parties and trinkets than with their children; children are raising themselves and/or their siblings…

Can a Married couple be childless? …yes, both due to sterility and other natural/health issues… but can a Married couple choose not to have children? No.

Are they ways that a Married couple who is unable to bear children still be fruitful? …yes, they can adopt orphaned children and/or they can serve in they parish as Catechist or they can get a degree as teachers/professors and help shape the mind of the next Generation of Catholics…

…now, why are some people unfit to be parents? …many reasons… immaturity (unwilling to be responsible), selfishness, self-absorbed, vanity, worldly interests, ignorance…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Vico]

There is a vocation crisis of marriage in the West (along with the vocation crisis of priests and religious).

Sacramental marriage is no longer the norm.

There is no such thing as marriage being a wrong choice. It can be - for certain people - a less good choice, but it’s impossible for it to be a wrong choice.

Per the Catholic Church, it would be wrong if there was a non-dispensable impediment for them.

 

[Anglewannabe]

There is no such thing as marriage being a wrong choice. It can be - for certain people - a less good choice, but it’s impossible for it to be a wrong choice.

Try selling that one to a man whose wife just married him for his money

 

[Captain_America]

During the 1980s it was common for women to want to wait until they were Perfect before they had kids.

This was nonsense. No one’s perfect or likely to get that way.

To some extent, simply the responsibility of parenthood very much helps people mature AND BECOME better people. . . less selfish, more cognizant of the positive impacts they received during life from others.

 

[augustinegirl]

well yes, logically it would follow that not everyone who is married was called to be. same goes for priests.

for example, parents who severely abuse their children, or neglect them.

This is true.

 

[augustinegirl]

There is no such thing as marriage being a wrong choice. It can be - for certain people - a less good choice, but it’s impossible for it to be a wrong choice.

Okay and now I agree with you instead of the other poster haha. Interesting

 

[EasterJoy]

There is a vocation crisis of marriage in the West (along with the vocation crisis of priests and religious).

Sacramental marriage is no longer the norm.

There is no such thing as marriage being a wrong choice. It can be - for certain people - a less good choice, but it’s impossible for it to be a wrong choice.

That is nonsense. Of course marriage to a particular person or at a particular time or even the choice to marry at all can be a wrong choice, just as choosing to become a physician can be a wrong choice even though you’re very good at it and make a career helping people by following through with it. I mean that you might tell someone who is in exactly your same shoes “Do not follow my footsteps thinking that my success proves that I made the right choice. I didn’t. I made the wrong choice, and I’d never do it again. I just decided to make the best of it.” In the case of marriage, that would be “I had the integrity to make the best of it and give my spouse what I promised I would give.”

Just because you can compensate and honor the obligations that some choice brought upon you does not mean you didn’t make a wrong choice in the first place. Sometimes, you make the wrong choice but you are still capable of fulfilling the obligation, and so you make the best of it and fulfill it. It is not the end of the world, you are not doomed to a life of misery, but if you would never make that choice again in a million years in spite of the admirable way you managed to navigate your mistake, it is pretty hard to say it was a “less good” choice rather than a “wrong” choice.

One of the defining characteristics of a person of integrity is that they keep their obligations, even when it was a bad choice for them to have obliged themselves in the first place.

 

[EasterJoy]

I know that God wants us to be fruitful and multiply in our vocation…but is it possible that there are just people who are unfit to be parents? I guess I’d assume that if one is unfit to be a parent, he/she would be unfit to be married as well…is that correct? I’m not referring to infertile couples, and I know we can’t use anything but natural planning methods do I’d assume it’s impossible, but I’m curious. I guess I ask because I’ve heard people say their own parents were unfit to be parents and obviously it’s good that the children are alive but it made me think. Is this even possible? Haha

From canon law:
Can. 1055 §1. The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life and which is ordered by its nature to the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring, has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament between the baptized.

Marriage is ordered by its nature to the procreation and education of offspring. People who discern they should not be parents (rather than that they will find parenthood difficult, which is not the same thing) and who are not infertile have identified a serious argument against marrying at all. Finding out after the fact that you are unfit to be a parent is a serious reason to avoid having children, but if you know in advance that you have a serious reason to avoid one of the defining reasons for marriage, the chances are that you should not marry at all.

I would say “chances are” because human beings are complex creatures. If you have the right to marry I would not say out of hand that you should not. Just defining how "should not be a parent’ differs from “would finding parenting very difficult” is not a trivial matter. Marriage is a sacrament by which you can bring great good into your spouse’s life and great good into the world, whether or not you have children. I would never suggest someone ought to forego that out of hand. I mean that having children, like having sexual relations, is a fundamental aspect of a typical healthy marriage that cannot be dispensed with lightly. That does not mean that those who do not have those aspects in their marriages do not realize the sacrament in its fullness. It means that one should not enter into a marriage in which those things are largely precluded. Never enter into marriage lightly, but especially do not enter into a marriage with such a great difficulty built into it without some amount of introspection.

 

[augustinegirl]

From canon law:
Can. 1055 §1. The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life and which is ordered by its nature to the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring, has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament between the baptized.

Marriage is ordered by its nature to the procreation and education of offspring. People who discern they should not be parents (rather than that they will find parenthood difficult, which is not the same thing) and who are not infertile have identified a serious argument against marrying at all.
…

I would say “chances are” because human beings are complex creatures. If you have the right to marry I would not say out of hand that you should not. Just defining how "should not be a parent’ differs from “would finding parenting very difficult” is not a trivial matter. Marriage is a sacrament by which you can bring great good into your spouse’s life and great good into the world, whether or not you have children. I would never suggest someone ought to forego that out of hand. I mean that having children, like having sexual relations, is a fundamental aspect of a typical healthy marriage that cannot be dispensed with lightly. That does not mean that those who do not have those aspects in their marriages do not realize the sacrament in its fullness. It means that one should not enter into a marriage in which those things are largely precluded. Never enter into marriage lightly, but especially do not enter into a marriage with such a great difficulty built into it without some amount of introspection.

I really enjoy your posts, thank you. Thank you for having great respect for the Church while also acknowledging that people are complex. I have not seen you dilute the faith at all in this respect, but you’ve given respect to how God creates us as well. This is very rare and refreshing.