Marrying a Hindu

[Elizium23]

It’s vividly clear that you know absolutely nothing about Hinduism.

That’s OK! This is a Catholic forum so knowledge about Hinduism is not a requirement here. The only religion I profess to know well is Catholicism. I know enough about Hinduism to stay well away from it and to warn others to do the same. My belief is rooted in the True Catholic Faith.

I am concerned about the lack of knowledge that some posters in this thread have about Catholicism. That is extremely dangerous, especially when it is your own faith by baptism. To be so deficient in knowledge about your own faith that you go around picking bits and bobs up from others is a guaranteed path to Hell.

 

[Veedar]

I acknowledge that Hinduism is not a perfect religion; no religion is. But what are these practices and teachings that you are referring to? I haven’t come across anything in Hinduism that is comparable to things in the OT of the Bible.

The first thing that comes to mind is animal sacrifice. It is also found in the Bible, of course. I do not believe that a God of love would ever command such cruelty towards animals.

 

[Philomath]

The first thing that comes to mind is animal sacrifice. It is also found in the Bible, of course. I do not believe that a God of love would ever command such cruelty towards animals.

As you said Animal Sacrifice is also found in the Bible. Animal sacrifice has long since been abandoned since the time of the Vedas. It’s not a modern practice and direclty goes against Ahimsa which is non-injury.

 

[Elizium23]

The first thing that comes to mind is animal sacrifice. It is also found in the Bible, of course. I do not believe that a God of love would ever command such cruelty towards animals.

Properly done, animal sacrifice is quite humane. In fact this humaneness is enshrined in Jewish kashrut laws. It is forbidden to eat anything “torn” from a live animal. That kindness is clear to see. It is also forbidden to eat strangled animals. Strangling is violent and takes too long, it causes the animal to suffer. Jewish butchers are skilled in making one clean cut across the throat and emptying the carcass of blood.

I would venture to say that modern slaughter methods are adopted liberally from Jewish practice which aimed to be as humane as possible. In regards to Hindu sacrifice, I know nothing as has already been established, so I cannot comment thereon.

 

[Philomath]

That’s OK! This is a Catholic forum so knowledge about Hinduism is not a requirement here. The only religion I profess to know well is Catholicism. I know enough about Hinduism to stay well away from it and to warn others to do the same. My belief is rooted in the True Catholic Faith.

I am concerned about the lack of knowledge that some posters in this thread have about Catholicism. That is extremely dangerous, especially when it is your own faith by baptism. To be so deficient in knowledge about your own faith that you go around picking bits and bobs up from others is a guaranteed path to Hell.

No…from your posts you’ve shown that you know exactly nothing about Hinduism. Nothing stated in your post was even true. You can address the Catholic posters about their lack of knowledge but please don’t spread misinformation about Hinduism.

 

[Veedar]

As you said Animal Sacrifice is also found in the Bible. Animal sacrifice has long since been abandoned since the time of the Vedas. It’s not a modern practice and direclty does against Ahimsa which is non-injury.

Yes? I explicitly wrote that most Hindus today do not find such acts acceptable? In fact, this is one area where I think Christianity has a long way to go. For the most part, Christians and Catholic couldn’t care less about the treatment of animals. Here Hindu and Buddhist spirituality seems to have evolved further than Christian spirituality.

 

[Veedar]

Properly done, animal sacrifice is quite humane. In fact this humaneness is enshrined in Jewish kashrut laws. It is forbidden to eat anything “torn” from a live animal. That kindness is clear to see. It is also forbidden to eat strangled animals. Strangling is violent and takes too long, it causes the animal to suffer. Jewish butchers are skilled in making one clean cut across the throat and emptying the carcass of blood.

I would venture to say that modern slaughter methods are adopted liberally from Jewish practice which aimed to be as humane as possible. In regards to Hindu sacrifice, I know nothing as has already been established, so I cannot comment thereon.

Is it ok to slaughter humans if it is humane?

 

[Philomath]

Yes? I explicitly wrote that most Hindus today do not find such acts acceptable? In fact, this is one area where I think Christianity has a long way to go. For the most part, Christians and Catholic couldn’t care less about the treatment of animals. Here Hindu and Buddhist spirituality seems to have evolved further than Christian spirituality.

It appears I misread your statement then…my apologies.

 

[Elizium23]

Is it ok to slaughter humans if it is humane?

Certainly. Animals and plants were given to Adam and Eve so that we humans could subjugate them and have dominion over them. The world exists as it is to serve man, that is why it was created by God. Christian belief is that animals should never be made to suffer, or treated unfairly, but the right to farm them and use them as food is well-established. Modern things such as factory farms and some kinds of scientific animal testing are, in general, opposed to Christian belief because they cause suffering.

 

[Elizium23]

Is it ok to slaughter humans if it is humane?

Certainly not. Christian teaching puts the dignity of human life above other worldly concerns. If we are talking about Jewish warfare in the Old Testament then we need some more context which establishes the righteousness of these acts commanded by God, such as just war theory and the practice of haram warfare.

 

[Veedar]

Certainly not. Christian teaching puts the dignity of human life above other worldly concerns. If we are talking about Jewish warfare in the Old Testament then we need some more context which establishes the righteousness of these acts commanded by God, such as just war theory and the practice of haram warfare.

Yes, the dignity of human life. This is where Christianity needs to evolve, so that it accepts the dignity of all sentient life, including non-human life. Only when humans have learned to accept this, and not slaughter innocent animals for convenience (such as the tastiness of meat, or nice skins to cover our bibles), will we learn not to kill our own in war and abortion.

 

[Elizium23]

Yes, the dignity of human life. This is where Christianity needs to evolve, so that it accepts the dignity of all sentient life, including non-human life. Only when humans have learned to accept this, and not slaughter innocent animals for convenience (such as the tastiness of meat, or nice skins to cover our bibles), will we learn not to kill our own in war and abortion.

This is incorrect. It is infallible doctrine that human life is of more worth than any other kind. Humans were created in the image and likeness of God. Humans possess immortal souls and other beings do not. The Son of God became human like us; he did not become a platypus.

Many vegetarians see nothing wrong with killing plants for food - where does the distinction end? Is a slime mold an animal or a plant? And yet, Christians still have teachings about responsible stewardship of the Earth and its resources - clear-cutting rain forests is clearly in conflict with Christian belief.

Just wars are permitted and acceptable in Christian belief, so while it is important to exercise restraint and observe Moral Law when it comes to waging war, sometimes it is unavoidable, particularly in defensive situations. It can be permissible to take a human life if we are defending the innocent - that is in fact part and parcel with the teaching on human dignity, that it must be defended against aggressors.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Gary, your understanding of the Catholic Church’s claims about herself is poor, and your posts smack of indifferentism. There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Nostra Aetate did not change this dogma. Hinduism is an inherently syncretistic faith which accounts for its many branches and flavors. There are Hindus who are happy to claim monotheism and there are Hindus who are happy to claim Jesus as one of their gods. That doesn’t put us on equal footing. The latter is a violation of the First Commandment. Our God is a jealous God and our Church is an exclusive spiritual body which constitutes the Body of Christ and the community of believers. While there are truths taught in Hinduism there are also falsehoods and demonic influence - let’s take the sacred tradition of sati as an example. The True God would never command women to immolate themselves violently such as this. Abortion would be taken as a blessing by Hindus, a freeing of a soul to be reincarnated as a cricket or something, or at worst a punishment for bad karma. The caste system which teaches that we are all born to a particular position in life and nothing we can do will change that; this is directly opposed to “There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, woman or man.” These are falsehoods that cannot be seen as “equally valid” or celebrated as a unique understanding of God, they are not of God at all, they are worldly or demonic practices that cannot be tolerated.

The fact that there is much acceptance of Christians and Christian belief is a central tenet of Hinduism, that freedom of belief and worship is encouraged. So it is not surprising that Catholics who are infected by Hinduism should welcome its establishment on equal footing with the True Faith. Jesus Christ, the Bearer of the Water of Life: A Christian reflection on the “New Age” is a good read for any Catholic who dabbles in Oriental religions or New Age occultism:

Catholics are duty-bound to lead Hindus away from a false religion. We have been given the Great Commission: “Go and preach the Gospel to all the world”. Christ is our light and no-one else can compare. Our evidence is clear in Sacred Scripture, the authority of the Church and her Magisterium, and Sacred Tradition. There is no question that Christianity is Truth and all other religions are false. That is the Church’s constant teaching and that is our understanding of the primacy of Jesus Christ in the world and in Heaven.

Dear Elizum 23: Using words like infection to describe the beliefs of others causes me great concern and anguish. Our beloved Pope Francis asked us not to do such things when I heard him speak in May. I think he is a wise and a good man. Do not be complacent that because you have purchased the right ticket that you personally have boarded the right train. The Catholic railroad makes stops in hell as well as heaven. Others may purchase the wrong ticket, but through goodness and love end up in the place you had hoped for to have for yourself. I think all of this is determined by what’s in your heart, not what organization you belong to. I hope that you will take care to make sure that what is in your heart in regards to others rises above the sectarian arrogance that may keep you forever separated from God. Having your name on a chalice will not save you from what is in your own heart. Make sure it is clean and unassuming.

With love,
Gary

 

[Veedar]

This is incorrect. It is infallible doctrine that human life is of more worth than any other kind. Humans were created in the image and likeness of God. Humans possess immortal souls and other beings do not. The Son of God became human like us; he did not become a platypus.

Many vegetarians see nothing wrong with killing plants for food - where does the distinction end? Is a slime mold an animal or a plant? And yet, Christians still have teachings about responsible stewardship of the Earth and its resources - clear-cutting rain forests is clearly in conflict with Christian belief.

Just wars are permitted and acceptable in Christian belief, so while it is important to exercise restraint and observe Moral Law when it comes to waging war, sometimes it is unavoidable, particularly in defensive situations. It can be permissible to take a human life if we are defending the innocent - that is in fact part and parcel with the teaching on human dignity, that it must be defended against aggressors.

Humans evolved, just like all other animals. We share a common ancestor, and at no time has humanity been reduced to a single couple. So we as Christians are faced with a choice. We can reduce human dignity so it corresponds with other animals, or we can extend dignity to encompass all sentient beings. As for value, it is a relative term. A pig’s life may not be very valuable to you, but it is valuable to the pig. And even if you think animals are less worth than humans, what justification is there for murdering them when you have the option not to? It is quite possible to eat nutritious, healthy, food that will reduce your likelihood of getting cancer and extend your life and not sustain yourself on the flesh of other sentient beings. By killing animals for food, you both reduce your own lifespan, and you kill a creature of God needlessly.

As for the vegetable argument, it makes little sense. Plants have no nervous system and no brain. They do not experience pain or fear. And it is not possible to avoid eating plants. We cannot eat rocks. But it is possible to abstain from eating meat.

As for war, the ideal in Isaiah is clearly a society without violence, without swords, where lions and lambs peacefully coexist. If this is what God wants why not begin doing our part in creating such a society in the here and now?

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Humans evolved, just like all other animals. We share a common ancestor, and at no time has humanity been reduced to a single couple. So we as Christians are faced with a choice. We can reduce human dignity so it corresponds with other animals, or we can extend dignity to encompass all sentient beings. As for value, it is a relative term. A pig’s life may not be very valuable to you, but it is valuable to the pig. And even if you think animals are less worth than humans, what justification is there for murdering them when you have the option not to? It is quite possible to eat nutritious, healthy, food that will reduce your likelihood of getting cancer and extend your life and not sustain yourself on the flesh of other sentient beings. By killing animals for food, you both reduce your own lifespan, and you kill a creature of God needlessly.

As for the vegetable argument, it makes little sense. Plants have no nervous system and no brain. They do not experience pain or fear. And it is not possible to avoid eating plants. We cannot eat rocks. But it is possible to abstain from eating meat.

As for war, the ideal in Isaiah is clearly a society without violence, without swords, where lions and lambs peacefully coexist. If this is what God wants why not begin doing our part in creating such a society in the here and now?

We think alike Veedar.

 

[Elizium23]

and at no time has humanity been reduced to a single couple.

False. The Catholic Church teaches, and you profess to be a member of her, that Adam and Eve existed at some point in time. Denial of this is heresy.

As for war, the ideal in Isaiah is clearly a society without violence, without swords, where lions and lambs peacefully coexist. If this is what God wants why not begin doing our part in creating such a society in the here and now?

Isaiah was describing the Kingdom of God come to Earth, the eschatological reign of Jesus Christ at the end of time. Surely Isaiah himself recognized that such a world was not possible before the reign of Christ, because humanity’s fallen nature gives us over to use violence to solve our problems. A Christian is commanded to turn the other cheek, and yet we are permitted to meet aggressors with lethal force when they theaten the innocent. War is a fact of life in the world and it will not be abolished until the Second Coming.

 

[Veedar]

False. The Catholic Church teaches, and you profess to be a member of her, that Adam and Eve existed at some point in time. Denial of this is heresy.

The Church once professed that the earth was the center of the universe, and it called those heretics who denied it. The scientific evidence is clear: it is in our DNA. We do not descend from a single couple, so here the Church once again needs to be corrected by science. But I do not see this as a problem for theology. Instead of looking back at some paradise in the past, we can look to the New Adam as the template for how humans ought to behave. Not living up to that template is missing the mark, i.e. sinning.

Isaiah was describing the Kingdom of God come to Earth, the eschatological reign of Jesus Christ at the end of time. Surely Isaiah himself recognized that such a world was not possible before the reign of Christ, because humanity’s fallen nature gives us over to use violence to solve our problems. A Christian is commanded to turn the other cheek, and yet we are permitted to meet aggressors with lethal force when they theaten the innocent. War is a fact of life in the world and it will not be abolished until the Second Coming.

If the society where one animal does not eat another, and where there is no war, is the ideal, then surely we should all be vegetarians and peacemakers?

 

[Veedar]

(…) Humans possess immortal souls and other beings do not.(…)

Just a short comment about this. It is not Catholic doctrine that the human soul is immortal. God is the only one who is immortal, self existing, the great “I AM”. The human soul depends on God for its existence and survival of bodily death. It is contingent. This means that there are many possible ways to explain the survival of death. The idea that humans at some stage became infused with a soul by means of direct intervention is not required in order for this to occur. It could well have been created through secondary causes (evolution), even though God preserves it after bodily death.

 

[Porknpie]

Just a short comment about this. It is not Catholic doctrine that the human soul is immortal. God is the only one who is immortal, self existing, the great “I AM”.

The Human soul once created by God is immortal. From the Catechism:

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not “produced” by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235

The human soul depends on God for its existence and survival of bodily death.

certainly

The idea that humans at some stage became infused with a soul by means of direct intervention is not required in order for this to occur.

the stage you are referring to is the moment of creation.

PnP

 

[Porknpie]

The Church once professed that the earth was the center of the universe, and it called those heretics who denied it. The scientific evidence is clear: it is in our DNA. We do not descend from a single couple, so here the Church once again needs to be corrected by science.

Science is showing that we do indeed come from a single couple, a scientific Eve. Tract is here.

The Church does not need correction.

PnP