Marrying a non-Catholic... What are my options?

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flee

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Hi everyone,
I’m not able to contact my parish priest for the next while, as I’m living overseas, so I thought maybe I’d ask on here…

I was baptized and raised Catholic, and am still practicing, and my fiance was also baptized Catholic but has since drifted from the faith and does not have any connection with it now (although he’s never officially denounced his faith on paper). He has very strong feelings against the Church, and doesn’t want to get married in a Catholic Church - he wants to get married elsewhere (I’m not sure if it would be outside or inside or what…)

Our relationship is otherwise great, but this is something that we just can’t agree upon, and our relationship is in danger of being damaged from it. While my feelings about getting married in a church are strong, his are also for not getting married in one. (I should add, by the way, that he has no objections to me or our future children practicing, it’s just not for him.) He feels like he would be a liar or a fake if he got married in a church and went through the motions without believing. I don’t want him to resent me for making him do something he’s not comfortable with, going against his own beliefs.

So the person from the church office told me I should look into either a Dispensation from Canonical Form or a Convalidation Ceremony. I’ve looked up some info about these online, but would they apply in our case?
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I understand… a dispensation would allow me to marry outside of a Catholic Church and still retain my standing with the Church, but would it still be a sacrament? (And what if the wedding was outside or in another place that isn’t sacred? Would that matter?) And a convalidation ceremony would validate our marriage as a sacrament in the Church - is this correct?
Also, would we still have to do a Pre-Cana course with a convalidation ceremony? This would be the most difficult since we’re living in Germany and are getting married in Canada (where my parish is) - we’re only able to go home for two weeks at the most, and I know that my parish doesn’t offer a weekend course. I also thought about doing it at a church here in Germany, except that I barely speak any German and wouldn’t really get anything out of the course since I wouldn’t really be able to understand anything.

I don’t think my fiance would have any objections to the convalidation ceremony, but as far as our actual wedding goes, he doesn’t want it in a church. It’s his wedding too, so I’m trying to find a way we can both be satisfied, and save my marriage (and my soul) at the same time.

Any advice? Thanks so much 🙂
 
flee said:
Our relationship is otherwise great, but this is something that we just can’t agree upon, and our relationship is in danger of being damaged from it. (snip) Any advice? Thanks so much 🙂
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Think long and hard. This is a huge red flag.
 
Yes, I have, thank you… I know there can be problems, but I also know that it’s possible for us to have a long and happy marriage regardless.
Anything to actually say about my questions?
 
One would obtain a dispensation prior to the wedding. Convalidation would be needed afterward if the dispensation had not been obtained, because the marriage would not be valid without it. I’m not sure what it would take for it to be sacramental. I’m sure someone else will have additional information.
 
As Catholics, you have an obligation to be married as Catholics and the norm is in a church. That being said, you do not necessarily have to have the full nuptial mass or anything like that. You should check with your priest and see if it is possible to hold a short but valid ceremony of simply the vows in perhaps the rectory or the church’s downstairs room. . .

And speaking as a woman who married a non-Catholic (who did agree to the church wedding but only, as it turns out, because he realized how difficult it would make it for me when after years of a truly hellish marriage I would wind up seeking an annulment). . .this kind of behavior of your fiance is a red flag. It really is. He is making this ‘all about him’ and believe me, if you ‘knuckle under’ to him he will wind up despising you, and he will use this against you once you have kids. “no you don’t have to go to church, sweetie. We didn’t even get married in church so that bad old Catholic church thinks your mommy and daddy are going to hell anyway”. . .if the parents are not working together on something as important as religious faith it is going to be the children who suffer. It really, really is.
 
flee said:
I was baptized and raised Catholic, and am still practicing, and my fiance was also baptized Catholic but has since drifted from the faith and does not have any connection with it now (although he’s never officially denounced his faith on paper). He has very strong feelings against the Church, and doesn’t want to get married in a Catholic Church - he wants to get married elsewhere (I’m not sure if it would be outside or inside or what…)
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Your fiance is a Catholic, not a non-Catholic. Your entire post is titled incorrectly. You are operating on the idea that he is not a Catholic. This could not be farther from the truth.

Two Catholics must marry in the Catholic Church in Catholic form.

He has strong feelings against the Church? Just how do you expect to raise your children Catholic if this is the case? This is an extremely unwise course you are setting for yourself.
flee said:
So the person from the church office told me I should look into either a Dispensation from Canonical Form or a Convalidation Ceremony. I’ve looked up some info about these online, but would they apply in our case?
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Perhaps this person did not understand that you are marrying another Catholic. Two Catholics cannot receive a dispensation from canonical form.

If you marry outside the Church and attempt to obtain a convalidation, you have achieved nothing other than committing a serious sin by marrying outside the Church. A convalidation is a Catholic marriage ceremony with the exchange of vows and consent in the Catholic form. So, either way your fiance will be having a Catholic wedding.
flee said:
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but from what I understand… a dispensation would allow me to marry outside of a Catholic Church and still retain my standing with the Church, but would it still be a sacrament? (
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This would be true if you were marrying a non-Catholic. But you are not. Two Catholics cannot be dispensed when they marry each other. The dispensation is a relaxing of the law to assist in accomodating the mixed marriage.
flee said:
And what if the wedding was outside or in another place that isn’t sacred? Would that matter?)
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Again, not applicable to two Catholics.
flee said:
And a convalidation ceremony would validate our marriage as a sacrament in the Church - is this correct?
Also, would we still have to do a Pre-Cana course with a convalidation ceremony?
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Yes. A convalidation is a Catholic marriage. Therefore, you must complete ALL the requirements for Catholic marriage.

The only thing you would achieve by going outside the Church and getting married civilly is to put yourself in mortal sin and bar yourself from the sacraments until your convalidation can take place.
flee said:
I don’t think my fiance would have any objections to the convalidation ceremony, but as far as our actual wedding goes, he doesn’t want it in a church. It’s his wedding too, so I’m trying to find a way we can both be satisfied, and save my marriage (and my soul) at the same time.

Any advice? Thanks so much 🙂
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Rethink marrying this person.
 
policy.archchicago.org/policies/bk1num0500.pdf

this is the description for the procedure what you need: the Dispensation from the Canonical form. This is for the Archdiocese of Chicago, but other dioceses have similar policies.

You can ask for it at the church of your domicile and quasi domicile. If you get it, you can validly marry at whatever forum the dispensation allows, in your case before civil authorities. You must be prepared that the permission is denied it belongs to the discretion of the one who has authority. (In Chicago the Vicar General, one level below the archbishop)

Marriage is for lifetime, and such a marriage is very risky.
 
I have been married for 24 years to a convert to the faith. I grew up catholic. She converted so we could get married in the church. It was not a conversion of the heart. Our marriage preparation and RCIA program were rather liberal, and conveniently dropped several key points of church teaching.

I can tell you, this is a very painful path to take. Be careful and know this may be a big cross for you to bear for many years.
 
flee said:
Yes, I have, thank you… I know there can be problems, but I also know that it’s possible for us to have a long and happy marriage regardless.
Anything to actually say about my questions?
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Hi. Just read all six of your posts.
In this thread, you don’t mention that your fiancee and mother are at war.
You do not mention that your parents will not attend if you do marry this man.

In fact, you’ve left out lots of relevant details.
You and your fiancee are both baptized Catholics so even
the title of this thread is misleading. You are walking down a slippery slope,
at the very least, and more likely you are considering a marriage that
will alienate your parents. What a way to begin a marriage!

Your parents have loved you for thirty years.
Your fiancee has loved you for less than ten years.

You are buying into a lie if you allow your fiancee to
set the rules for this impossible marriage. He SAYS you
can practice your faith - and so can any children. But the
facts say something quite different. The FACTS say
that he wants no part of a Sacramental marriage. How much
more clear can he be with you? Gain him, lose your faith and family.

That’s some deal.
 
flee said:
Hi everyone,

(I should add, by the way, that he has no objections to me or our future children practicing, it’s just not for him.) He feels like he would be a liar or a fake if he got married in a church and went through the motions without believing.
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So he’s OK w/ letting you spend 18+ years raising kids Catholic, but he can’t set foot in a Catholic church for an hour to get married?
 
I can’t answer any of your questions because I think this is too much of a red flag. The last poster was right-- he won’t get married in a Church for 1-1.5 hours of his life, but somehow will allow future children to be raised Catholic? Let me tell you something about marriage-- people have a tendency to change their minds without warning after the “I do’s”!

I am going to sound blunt and crass and will not apologize for it. Do not get married to this guy if he has ill feelings, thoughts, and views towards the Church. Not only can it result in an invalid marriage, but it is also disrespectful to the Church. It is one thing if he was a true non-Catholic but had a neutral stance on the Church, was respectful, etc. but that does not seem to be his views.

We hear of so many “my non-Catholic spouse will divorce me if I don’t use ABC,” “Is my marriage valid because my husband doesn’t agree with Catholicism,” and “my non-Catholic spouse won’t let our kids be raised Catholic” threads that it’s so saddening and deplorable to think that someone who has ill feelings towards the Church is going to somehow be “okay” with marrying in the Church.

I am sure I am sounding a bit harsh, but that is the reality of your situation. You are marrying a dissenter of the faith and unless this changes BEFORE marriage, you will end up with lots of problems. There are posters who talk about the troubles in their marriages because their spouses don’t think going to church is worth their time, they would rather do something else, they end up going alone with the kids, etc.
 
I’m just repeating what 1ke said.

You are marrying a Catholic, (albeit a non-practicing one).

Your options for the wedding itself are the same as those for other Catholic couples who wish to marry. Any advice based on this person being a non-Catholic is probably inaccurate, even if it was someone from the Church office who gave it to you.

Your options for living a successful married life are similar to those of any other couple where one party wants to live the Catholic Faith out in married life and the other party (for whatever reason, whether Catholic or not) doesn’t.
 
spunjalebi said:
I can’t answer any of your questions because I think this is too much of a red flag. The last poster was right-- he won’t get married in a Church for 1-1.5 hours of his life, but somehow will allow future children to be raised Catholic? Let me tell you something about marriage-- people have a tendency to change their minds without warning after the “I do’s”!

I am going to sound blunt and crass and will not apologize for it. Do not get married to this guy if he has ill feelings, thoughts, and views towards the Church. Not only can it result in an invalid marriage, but it is also disrespectful to the Church. It is one thing if he was a true non-Catholic but had a neutral stance on the Church, was respectful, etc. but that does not seem to be his views.

We hear of so many “my non-Catholic spouse will divorce me if I don’t use ABC,” “Is my marriage valid because my husband doesn’t agree with Catholicism,” and “my non-Catholic spouse won’t let our kids be raised Catholic” threads that it’s so saddening and deplorable to think that someone who has ill feelings towards the Church is going to somehow be “okay” with marrying in the Church.

I am sure I am sounding a bit harsh, but that is the reality of your situation. You are marrying a dissenter of the faith and unless this changes BEFORE marriage, you will end up with lots of problems. There are posters who talk about the troubles in their marriages because their spouses don’t think going to church is worth their time, they would rather do something else, they end up going alone with the kids, etc.
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Completely agree. The OP is engaged to disaster.
 
KCT said:
So he’s OK w/ letting you spend 18+ years raising kids Catholic, but he can’t set foot in a Catholic church for an hour to get married?
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So, he should lie, right in the church during the ceremony? Is that what you are saying?

Flee, Just marry the guy somewhere else or with reduced vows. Your God will forgive you. So will Jesus (I can’t even imagine that Jesus would long hold a Catholic-lite wedding against someone who subsequently continues to be a good Christian with a good heart and good Christian parent).

Best wishes.

–Thus spoke Zaragnostica
 
larkin31 said:
So, he should lie, right in the church during the ceremony? Is that what you are saying?
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What would the lie be?

If he marries in Catholic form, or they marry civilly and convalidate, either way it is the same vows.
larkin31 said:
Flee, Just marry the guy somewhere else or with reduced vows. Your God will forgive you. So will Jesus (I can’t even imagine that Jesus would long hold a Catholic-lite wedding against someone who subsequently continues to be a good Christian with a good heart and good Christian parent).
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(a) Jesus **is **God.

(b) Planning to commit a sin under the guise of “God will forgive me” is itself a sin (the sin of presumption).
 
larkin31 said:
So, he should lie, right in the church during the ceremony? Is that what you are saying?

Flee, Just marry the guy somewhere else or with reduced vows. Your God will forgive you. So will Jesus (I can’t even imagine that Jesus would long hold a Catholic-lite wedding against someone who subsequently continues to be a good Christian with a good heart and good Christian parent).

Best wishes.

–Thus spoke Zaragnostica
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KCT was simply pointing out the inconsistencies with the fiance. It is just very much a lie to be against the Church and then “say” that you’ll be okay with children raised Catholic. How does that make any sense-- someone apparently is fine with having children raised Catholic, going to Catholic Church, possibly going to Catholic schools, getting baptized, confirmed, etc. but does not want to step foot into a church for their own wedding? Newsflash-- children get catechized in Catholic Churches, along with baptized, confirmed, and attendance.

The fiance makes no sense to me, and I think that’s what KCT was driving at too. Yes, I’m sure there would be forgiveness but if someone is truly practicing their Catholic faith they wouldn’t be wishy-washy or lukewarm about it. I have a feeling the poster may be asking forgiveness for a great many other things if this marriage continues to proceed.
 
I will not pretend to be marriage counselor. That would be practicing without a license ;). Further, I do not know either the OP or the fiance personally.

However, I have some perspective as both the product of a mixed marriage and the partner of one.

The defining element, in both cases, in ensuring that religion would not be an “issue” between the spouses (not with regard to one spouse and his or her faith, one’s personal relationship to God) was that the non-Catholic spouse did not have animus against the Roman Catholic Church. That is what most concerns me in your description of your fiance – that:
He has very strong feelings against the Church, and doesn’t want to get married in a Catholic Church.
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Emphasis on first half of sentence. It is inhibiiting and intimidating to be married to someone who “has very strong feelings against the Church.” Thankfully, my father did not. Therefore, religion was never an issue between my parents. They had other issues that absolutely did not relate to that, and in fact my father’s willing compliance to raising the children Catholic was one of the strongest bonds between them. He respectfully attended every Sunday Mass, and every Sacrament. God rest his soul. (And yes, they were married in a Catholic Church, as well.)

Initially, my in-laws also had very strong feelings against the Church, but mostly “just” against Christianity in general. Fortunately, those feelings were not shared by my husband. If they had been, our marriage would be in major trouble if I hadn’t first resolved that issue to a level of mutual peace prior to our marriage.

Many people (including many clergy) feel that religion is even more of an intimate subject than sex. Please think about that. Again, I’m not going to suggest that you “shouldn’t marry him,” as I’m not qualified to make such a statement. But I am going to suggest some serious partnered counseling with a priest, perhaps parallel with some separate counseling between your fiance and a priest with a really good record/reputation with non-practicing Catholics – not for the purpose of a “forced” reversion, but for the purpose of inquiry & resolution.
 
1ke said:
What would the lie be?

If he marries in Catholic form, or they marry civilly and convalidate, either way it is the same vows.
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I married in a Catholic church. We had the vows changed so that I was not lying when I made them. Not all vows in all churches are the same. You must be aware of that, right?
Planning to commit a sin under the guise of “God will forgive me” is itself a sin (the sin of presumption).
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It’s not a sin to have a priest help you find an acceptable set of vows for the ceremony so that neither individual is lying.

Examples: I never vowed to raise my children in the Catholic faith. That clearly would have been a lie if I had been asked to state specifically that I would assist in that. I never would have consented to that. The priest said that I did not have to have this in the ceremony. At no point, furthermore, was I required to state my acceptance of the authority of the Pope. I never would have acceded to such a thing, nor was I directly asked this. Furthermore, there was no Eucharist in the ceremony, but I was married in the Catholic church by a priest and my wife’s family and she were fully satisfied. If this is a “sin,” then the parish fully enabled it. I can’t believe that it was a sin, but, of course, that is not for humans to have the final say on.
 
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