Marrying a non-Catholic

[EeyoresButerfly]

I think one of the problems is the difference in background. You all grew up in Catholic families, seeing Catholic marriages, with Catholic values. My mother does not believe in God (and I don’t want to get into it in this thread, it is just background) and my father identifies as Episcopal although he doesn’t go to church. My father’s whole side is Episcopal and I don’t know if anybody on my mother’s side goes to church. As a child I was allowed to choose my own religion/denomination and became Southern Baptist and converted to Catholicism about four years ago. Perhaps it’s because the priest at my college is extremely liberal (his sister is married to an atheist), but I don’t think that not having a “sacramental” wedding would be detrimental to my marriage or make it any less valid in the eyes of God. I have never been comfortable with a church that feels the need to control every tiny aspects of a member’s life or attempts to cut them off from the outside world. When our director mentioned marriage outside the church in passing, she indicated it was no big deal and happened all the time, so I’ve been rather taken aback by the attitudes on this thread, and it almost makes me wonder if I made the right decision when I converted. I love the Church, but this is making me feel like I have joined a cult, if that makes sense.

 

[Seatuck]

I think one of the problems is the difference in background. You all grew up in Catholic families, seeing Catholic marriages, with Catholic values. My mother does not believe in God (and I don’t want to get into it in this thread, it is just background) and my father identifies as Episcopal although he doesn’t go to church. My father’s whole side is Episcopal and I don’t know if anybody on my mother’s side goes to church. As a child I was allowed to choose my own religion/denomination and became Southern Baptist and converted to Catholicism about four years ago. Perhaps it’s because the priest at my college is extremely liberal (his sister is married to an atheist), but I don’t think that not having a “sacramental” wedding would be detrimental to my marriage or make it any less valid in the eyes of God. I have never been comfortable with a church that feels the need to control every tiny aspects of a member’s life or attempts to cut them off from the outside world. When our director mentioned marriage outside the church in passing, she indicated it was no big deal and happened all the time, so I’ve been rather taken aback by the attitudes on this thread, and it almost makes me wonder if I made the right decision when I converted. I love the Church, but this is making me feel like I have joined a cult, if that makes sense.

It is making light of the subject to say it is no big deal. A catholic needs to get a dispensation to marry outside of a catholic church. Catholics weren’t allowed to do this for a long time and they weren’t allowed to marry a non Catholic either. It is a two thousand years survival tradition. It is very difficult to maintain the faith and the faith of one’s children under the circumstance of mixed marriage. That is where this is coming from.
Recently , the obligations of a Catholic to marry a Catholic were loosened. (Remember , the church was given that power to bind and loosen by Christ) This doesn’t mean the church thinks it’s great. No , it allows it. The church goes further and makes an attempt to be compassionate in a situation such as you describe where the families would truly be stressed by the marriage in the Catholic church . So, the dispensation is allowed to be requested.

I think you are saying you wish to follow the instruction that the church has set out and obtain the necessary permissions and meet your obligations such as Pre-Cana in order to make this marriage valid and sacramental. As long as you do that , yes your marriage will be valid and sacramental. Praise God.

The worry here too is that under duress from pleasing family members you would make too many concessions to the Catholic faith. Are you truly going to raise your children Catholic for one thing. They can’t be half catholic half lutheran children.Will you only baptize them in a Catholic Church for instance? They won’t be Catholic and eligible for the rest of the Sacraments for instance. A lot of have experience seeing this kind of thing. A Catholic tends to move away from the faith under certain types of situation. It happens the other way as well.

College campuses are not know for their sticking to catholic teaching on a number of issues. It could be you are used to a more liberal application of these things.

Try not to read so much negativity but genuine concern for you and your ability to practive the faith.

 

[Seatuck]

but I don’t think that not having a “sacramental” wedding would be detrimental to my marriage or make it any less valid in the eyes of God.

I didn’t get a chance to address this specifically. Not really sure what you mean by this. If you do not have a sacramental marriage you are excluded from the grace that comes with a sacrament. This happens in the case were on of the couple is non baptized. In your case your fiance is baptized so that as long as you follow the requirements the Church places on you as the Catholic your marriage will be both valid and sacramental. It can’t be valid without being sacramental in your case.

I think there is some confusion in terms here. Perhaps when you wrote “sacramental” you meant Catholic Liturgy in a Catholic Church. Is that correct?

 

[whatevergirl]

I think one of the problems is the difference in background. You all grew up in Catholic families, seeing Catholic marriages, with Catholic values. My mother does not believe in God (and I don’t want to get into it in this thread, it is just background) and my father identifies as Episcopal although he doesn’t go to church. My father’s whole side is Episcopal and I don’t know if anybody on my mother’s side goes to church. As a child I was allowed to choose my own religion/denomination and became Southern Baptist and converted to Catholicism about four years ago. Perhaps it’s because the priest at my college is extremely liberal (his sister is married to an atheist), but I don’t think that not having a “sacramental” wedding would be detrimental to my marriage or make it any less valid in the eyes of God. I have never been comfortable with a church that feels the need to control every tiny aspects of a member’s life or attempts to cut them off from the outside world. When our director mentioned marriage outside the church in passing, she indicated it was no big deal and happened all the time, so I’ve been rather taken aback by the attitudes on this thread, and it almost makes me wonder if I made the right decision when I converted. I love the Church, but this is making me feel like I have joined a cult, if that makes sense.

Hi EB;

This is often a common misconception about the Church. It is not separate from Christ. Christ is at the head of the Church–was the first ‘organized’ Christian faith, and I believe it to be the fullness of faith. It is not a cult, and if you look at it more like it is one with Christ, you will view the ‘laws’ that the Church has differently. The laws are put into place to help us, not tell us what to do for no valid reason. Everything the Church teaches, we believe was given to us by the Holy Spirit. So, marrying within the Church is not a rule made up be mere men, but rather we have been guided to such laws, through the Holy Spirit–which is why it is Sacramental…and a vocation filled with graces.

I am a cradle Catholic, and still have things I don’t fully understand! lol I think over time, as you walk in your faith journey with the RCC…you will see the full beauty of its laws and dogma.

Good luck to you!

 

[hasikelee]

I just had to post here because my aunt is Catholic and she married a Lutheran.

They had a ceremony in the Catholic church. He converted almost 10 years later to Catholicism. Why? He felt moved by his Catholic wedding ceremony and it stuck with him all those years, it was simply a matter of going through an issue one at a time, unable to forget the “realness” and “reverence” of the ceremony.

Deep down, why do you feel unable to celebrate your sacrament?

Besides family members, are you feeling pressure from him? Is he hesitant to celebrate a ceremony in the church?

 

[Just_wondering]

I apologize in advance for going a little off topic, but I just want to clarify what I understand about a valid, sacramental wedding of a Catholic to a non-Catholic. (I’m the non-Catholic, he’s the Catholic.)

You should (or must?) go through some pre-marriage counselling with your priest (or someone else?) to determine that both parties are entering this marriage with full understanding of what it means. My questions: how long does it take? Must it be at the same church where you plan to marry? Can you get a note from a priest to say you’ve completed it and then have a different priest marry you?

The Catholic party must declare that they will raise their children in the Catholic faith, and the non-Catholic party must be informed of that (and in some cases they had to agree to that). I don’t have any questions about that part.

You should get married in the Church, and if that’s not possible you can get a dispensation from a bishop. What kind of reasons are acceptable? “My family hates the Church” sounds like a better reason than “I’ve always wanted a beach wedding”

Now, more questions. Can you get married at a parish that you haven’t attended long? Like, if my bf wants to get married at his home Church in the Philippines, but we do our marriage preparation here in Korea, is that possible? Obviously we’d inform the priest of our intentions (via my bf’s mother) well ahead of time, but is the priest required to know us and check that we are entering the marriage for the right reasons himself?

Also, I’ve seen a number of threads on this forum where people said, “of course, you can’t have two ceremonies.” Really? Why not? (genuine question here!) If we get married in Korea, is it impossible to go home to the Philippines and have a ceremony there for his family and friends to witness? Or if my family can’t fly out to see me get married in Asia, is it wrong to have a second wedding in Canada? I’d certainly want to repeat the vows with my family witnessing it, not just have a reception without the formality of the wedding part. Is there some renewal of vows ceremony we could do instead, if we end up being unable to gather everyone we want at our wedding?

I hope someone can answer a few of those questions. And sorry, OP, for hijacking your thread, but I figure the situations are similar, and the answers might help you too.

 

[Phemie]

I apologize in advance for going a little off topic, but I just want to clarify what I understand about a valid, sacramental wedding of a Catholic to a non-Catholic. (I’m the non-Catholic, he’s the Catholic.)

You should (or must?) go through some pre-marriage counselling with your priest (or someone else?) to determine that both parties are entering this marriage with full understanding of what it means. My questions: how long does it take?
Churches usually require that you approach them at least 6 months before your planned wedding date.
Must it be at the same church where you plan to marry?
No.
Can you get a note from a priest to say you’ve completed it and then have a different priest marry you?
Yes. When you do the pre-nuptial stuff at one parish and want to marry at another parish the priest will forward all that paperwork to the bishop who will then forward it either to the parish where you wish to marry or to another bishop if the parish where you want to marry is in another diocese. That second bishop then forwards it to the parish. See why they ask for at least 6 months? Reading further I see that you’re talking different countries so I’d allow even more time.

The Catholic party must declare that they will raise their children in the Catholic faith, and the non-Catholic party must be informed of that (and in some cases they had to agree to that). I don’t have any questions about that part.
The non-Catholic no longer has to agree. Since 1983 they only have to be informed of the Catholic’s promise.

You should get married in the Church, and if that’s not possible you can get a dispensation from a bishop. What kind of reasons are acceptable? “My family hates the Church” sounds like a better reason than “I’ve always wanted a beach wedding”
Family pressures/relationships is one of the valid reasons. I know of two cases where the brides’ grandfathers were ministers in other faiths. Dispensations were granted for those marriages to be celebrated by the grandfathers.
I don’t think the priest would request a dispensation for a beach wedding unless there was another compelling reason.

Now, more questions. Can you get married at a parish that you haven’t attended long? Like, if my bf wants to get married at his home Church in the Philippines, but we do our marriage preparation here in Korea, is that possible?

It should be. We prepare couples in Canada to marry in other countries.

Obviously we’d inform the priest of our intentions (via my bf’s mother) well ahead of time, but is the priest required to know us and check that we are entering the marriage for the right reasons himself?
No, he should receive all the original stuff from the priest who meets with you.

Also, I’ve seen a number of threads on this forum where people said, “of course, you can’t have two ceremonies.”
You can only have the vows in one of the faiths. If you had both a Catholic priest and a non-Catholic minister at your wedding (that usually happens when both the bride & groom are involved in their respective churches) you can’t have them both receive the consent and vows of the couple. It must be one or the other.
Really? Why not? (genuine question here!) If we get married in Korea, is it impossible to go home to the Philippines and have a ceremony there for his family and friends to witness?

If you’re already married you can’t expect the church to pretend you aren’t.

Or if my family can’t fly out to see me get married in Asia, is it wrong to have a second wedding in Canada? I’d certainly want to repeat the vows with my family witnessing it, not just have a reception without the formality of the wedding part. Is there some renewal of vows ceremony we could do instead, if we end up being unable to gather everyone we want at our wedding?

I don’t know if the Church would consider a renewal of vows for this reason. It would be nice if the Church had a ritual for this like it does for presenting an already baptized baby to the parish. That ritual is usually used if adopted children were already baptized or, as we’ve done, adapted to present babies of parishioners who went ‘home’ to have their babies baptized (like I did with my first 2).
I hope someone can answer a few of those questions. And sorry, OP, for hijacking your thread, but I figure the situations are similar, and the answers might help you too.

 

[Just_wondering]

Phemie,

Wow! Thanks a lot for your detailed response. That’s great. We’re still a few months away from getting engaged (unless he surprises me earlier ) but we’ve been talking about it a lot, especially since we have plane tickets and moving to another country to work out. Frankly, the wedding itself isn’t even close to the top of my list. I want it to be nice, and valid of course, and fairly formal, and I want it to be done in front of our families and friends. Other than that, I just want to be married to the love of my life. And be able to live in the same house (in fact, same city would be nice). And have babies. And jobs that aren’t on opposite shifts.

 

[EeyoresButerfly]

We haven’t even discussed marriage, I doubt we’re anywhere near that point. I just asked because:

1.) Our Newman Director had made a comment in passing when we were talking on a road trip about how you have to marry inside a church

2.) Some friends of mine have recently gotten engaged/married and weddings have been on my mind.

3.) Sheer curiosity. They never talked to us about the marriage sacrament in RCIA so it’s the first time I had heard anything about there being such nit picky rules about the marraige process.

Knowing him the way I do, I highly doubt that he would be seriously opposed to it, Lutheran isn’t that different form Catholic and our school’s Lutheran center is on incredibly good terms with our Catholic center, we do lots of things together. I think a lot of it is difference in backgrounds. I’ll be honest and say that for a long time I pictured getting married somewhere like on a beach, and I couldn’t believe that the church was so close-minded. I also remmber what it was like when I first started attending Mass, I felt very out of place because I had no idea what anybody was doing, and I do not wish my family or his family to feel that way when and if the time comes. I know the marriage is about us, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t have any consideration for our family or friends.

 

[proudnifi]

I’m in a mixed faith marriage and obtained the proper permissions. I respectfully suggest that the rules in place are not nit-picky; in comparison to the past and to some other religions, they are pretty open.

There were times when I wished I didn’t have the extra wedding planning work, but with more experience, I have come to appreciate the underlying rationale. I’m a cradle Catholic with over 12 years of Catholic school eduation, but as a child of the late 70s and 80s, I could have used more. The Catholic understanding of marriage is different from the general US view on marriage and it can take some getting used to. I encourage you to study more on it, especially if you are curious. I think gaining of understanding of the reasons behind some of the initially crazy-sounding rules can help.

You might be able to help your family be more comfortable, too. I got married in an Orthodox ceremony and it’s pretty different from what most people consider a marriage - no vows, etc. I used wedding programs to help explain everything - the ceremony is different but very beautiful and meaningful. I think it helped bridge the gap for my Catholic family and friends.

 

[EeyoresButerfly]

I was talking to a friend about this thread last night and I realize that a lot of my reticence has to do with a difference in background. The view of marriage that my old church had was very similar (okay, so birth control wasn’t a huge deal, and we didn’t have sacraments), we considered it to be a lifelong commitment from God and divorce was very highly frowned upon. Of course, there were people who got divorces, but that’s true even in the Catholic church. They didn’t have all the rules about Pre-Cana and where the ceremony can be performed, etc. I think Pre-Cana is a wonderful idea, if more people did Pre-Cana type programs I bet the divorce rate would be a lot lower, but the other regulations such as where the ceremony can be performed feel very controlling to somebody like me who is used to more freedom in their faith. SBC (what I used to be) is not a denomination but a convention which means that while there is a central authority that makes suggestions, churches have a lot of autonomy in how thigns are done, and I grew up with the idea that people could get married wherever they wanted. I just honestly don’t see how the location makes the marriage any less valid in the eyes of God or how it can make a difference on the couple, it’s the couple that makes the marriage work (with the help of God of course.) I know my family dreams of me getting married at Disney where I used to be a Cast Member. I know a lot of Catholics have two ceremonies: one in their church to make it official in the eyes of the church and then the public ceremony at Disney, but that just seems pointless, especially since there is a chapel. I just don’t understand why the chapel would be any different from a church.

 

[armywife]

When we were preparing for marriage, my then-fiance was getting deployed. When (for financial reasons only) we asked about marrying now and doing a big wedding later, our priest said just grab a couple witnesses and we’ll do it in my office. Then we could have had a ceremony when he got back. That would not have been a vow exchange, just a blessing and Mass.

P.S. We opted against that and had our wedding when he got back.

 

[puzzleannie]

Yes, that is what I thought she meant. I thought you meant that you consider it wrong to even marry a non-Catholic, is that not what you meant? Ih it.

this is now the third time of saying so I will try to be clear

a Catholic is bound by Catholic laws on marriage.
a non-CAtholic is not so bound
if a Catholic wishes to marry a non-Catholic and also to remain in full communion with the Catholic Church, he will obey those laws, that is, he will seek and obtain the proper dispenstion to marry the non-Catholic, to marry in another location than a CAtholic Church (if that is going to be an issue) or even to have a non-Catholic clergyman present (if that will be an issue). If he does comply with those laws, and completes the required married preparation, receives dispensations, marries with the proper intent etc. according to the laws of the Church, then he is married validly and lawfully in the Catholic Church. This happens all the time, there are of course prudential considerations anytime two people of different backgrounds decide to marry, but yes it can be done.

what should not be considered by any Catholic is to marry outside the boundaries of those laws–to marry civilly, to marry a non-Catholic without a dispensation, to marry with intent to avoid having children, or any other situation that would break those laws. it is unthinkable because it would separate you from the sacraments. I never said it was absolutely prohibited to marry a non-Catholic, I said it was wrong to do so without deference to the governing laws of the Catholic Church.

If you do what has been suggested by me and other posters, and consult your parish priest and seek his guidance, he will make sure you have every thing you need to contract a valid marriage with your non-Catholic fiance, including the proper dispensations, preparation and so forth. Then you will be “married in the Church”.

the reason it is essential for both parties to participate in the marriage preparation sessions, is that it is simply not fair or just for the non-Catholic to marry without fully understanding the laws that bind his Catholic partner. If you do not agree on these issues–baptism for the children, openness to new life, rejection of artifical BC, raising the children Catholic etd–you are going to have problems in the future, regardless of the religious affiliation of either. you have to resolve these issues before you marry.

 

[puzzleannie]

When we were preparing for marriage, my then-fiance was getting deployed. When (for financial reasons only) we asked about marrying now and doing a big wedding later, our priest said just grab a couple witnesses and we’ll do it in my office. Then we could have had a ceremony when he got back. That would not have been a vow exchange, just a blessing and Mass.

P.S. We opted against that and had our wedding when he got back.

It is provide in the law to facilitate sacraments for those in such situations, such as military, migrants and so forth.

 

[puzzleannie]

I was talking to a friend about this thread last night and I realize . I know a lot of Catholics have two ceremonies: one in their church to make it official in the eyes of the church and then the public ceremony at Disney, but that just seems pointless, especially since there is a chapel. I just don’t understand why the chapel would be any different from a church.

if they do so they are not following Church law.
there could in theory be a dispensation for a ceremony in another location, but it would have to be a very grave reason.
another thing you hear of, but is prohibited is two ceremonies, one in front of the priest, one in front of the preacher. in countries where civil marriage is required, it is of course permissible to have both, with the Church wedding following, but we are speaking of the USA

there is a gorgeous church right outside DW, Our Lady Queen of the Universe Shrine–rose garden outside is spectacular.

I understand there is, or used to be, a location in one of the on-site hotels used for Catholic Mass, perhaps with cooperation of the local pastor this might be an option, but you would need to line up a lot of permissions. Wedding planning can be hectic enough w/o adding a lot of extra stress.

 

[EeyoresButerfly]

I know the place you speak of, I used to live across from the Shrine (literally) when I lived in Orlando. I don’t like the shrine that much. It’s pretty, but it’s too big and impersonal, I hated going to mass there so I went to a church down the road which will probably be the church I would be married in if I have a Catholic wedding.