Marrying intellect and heart, how?

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Jennifer132

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Hello all. I am a Protestant considering Catholicism. I am an avid reader, and my Protestant upbringing has given me the gift of an insatiable hunger for knowledge, especially Biblical knowledge and apologetics. Over the last several months I have read a number of books on Catholic theology, and I find them to be interesting, convincing, and Biblical. In fact, my reading has brought me ever closer to conversion.

But every now and then I come across something “mystical”, if you will, in Catholicism, and again, my Protestant (evangelical) upbringing fairly flinches at these things. Some of the things that I just can’t seem to “get” are apparitions of Mary, Eucharistic miracles, and incorruptible bodies. Intellectually they don’t make sense, and that’s proven hard for me to swallow. I’m not one to lead with the emotions.

Does anyone have any advice on this matter? Must I believe in these things to be Catholic? Is it wrong or sinful to be skeptical? Is there any reason these things must be/should be a part of my faith? I am not one who blindly accepts “miracles” in part because I have been hurt by some of the more charismatic denominations in Protestantism who really do make miracles up to gain converts. Well to me, these mystical things have the opposite affect-they drive me away!

I hope this question doesn’t offend anyone. Please understand I’m not bringing this up to offend or debate. I am truly struggling to understand their purpose and importance to my faith.
 
Hello Jennifer
But every now and then I come across something “mystical”, if you will, in Catholicism, and again, my Protestant (evangelical) upbringing fairly flinches at these things. Some of the things that I just can’t seem to “get” are apparitions of Mary, Eucharistic miracles, and incorruptible bodies. Intellectually they don’t make sense, and that’s proven hard for me to swallow. I’m not one to lead with the emotions.
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Apparitions, miracles, and incorruptible bodies are not required beliefs in Catholicism.

For the most part, these are what the Church calls, “private revelations,” and are not required beliefs for Catholics.

A good place to know what Catholics are required to believe, is in the Nicene Creed, which we recite at Mass.

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Don’t worry about the rest.

Jim
 
Welcome to CAF 👋 Your questions should not offend anyone and I am sure that more knowledgeable people will be able to help you better than I can. I have a great deal of sympathy with some of the things you say you don’t get as I know I struggled with the Eucharist when I reverted back to Catholicism (I didn’t really know my faith) and am sort of still struggling with the Blessed Mother (got it intellectually but not in my heart). Faith and reason should go hand in hand, and questioning is the way we learn and grow - St Augustine seemed to question everything.

Some of the questions that you ask, especially in relation to the Eucharist would probably be better asked in a face to face conversation. There is no reason why (when you are ready) you cannot arrange to meet a Catholic priest simply to ask for guidance (without commitment on your part). In our little part of the world, our Cathedral runs a short course for non-Catholics (and very lapsed Catholics) to learn (under no obligation) about the faith. There are also Rite of Initiation Courses for Adults (RCIA) which explore different aspects of the faith and again, I would be surprised (and disappointed) if they did not accept people who were simply exploring and learning.

I pray that the Holy Spirit will guide you.
 
Jennifer132 said:
Hello all. I am a Protestant considering Catholicism. I am an avid reader, and my Protestant upbringing has given me the gift of an insatiable hunger for knowledge, especially Biblical knowledge and apologetics. Over the last several months I have read a number of books on Catholic theology, and I find them to be interesting, convincing, and Biblical. In fact, my reading has brought me ever closer to conversion.

But every now and then I come across something “mystical”, if you will, in Catholicism, and again, my Protestant (evangelical) upbringing fairly flinches at these things. Some of the things that I just can’t seem to “get” are apparitions of Mary, Eucharistic miracles, and incorruptible bodies. Intellectually they don’t make sense, and that’s proven hard for me to swallow. I’m not one to lead with the emotions.

Does anyone have any advice on this matter? Must I believe in these things to be Catholic? Is it wrong or sinful to be skeptical? Is there any reason these things must be/should be a part of my faith? I am not one who blindly accepts “miracles” in part because I have been hurt by some of the more charismatic denominations in Protestantism who really do make miracles up to gain converts. Well to me, these mystical things have the opposite affect-they drive me away!

I hope this question doesn’t offend anyone. Please understand I’m not bringing this up to offend or debate. I am truly struggling to understand their purpose and importance to my faith.
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Have you read the catechism? US Conference of Catholic Bishops has on online-searchable catechism.
usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm#

You may find this relevant- (Bold added to para 67)

"God has said everything in his Word

65 “In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son.”26 Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect, and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2: (102, 516, 2717)

In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word—and he has no more to say… because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty.27

There will be no further Revelation

66 “The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.”28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries. (94)

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church. (84, 93)

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations.”

FWIW- I have found reading the writings of the first Christians to be very valuable in understanding how the original Christians understood the faith. For example, ‘Faith of the Early Fathers’ edited and translated by Jurgens.
 
You might try reading an account from one of the saints who experienced an apparition. I recommed the book, “Bernadette Speaks.”
 
Even the Church is skeptical of miracles and apparitions 🙂

First, if a person believes he has been visited by an apparition, he will be told to ignore it, pretty much, because it could be any number of things.

And then any form of acknowledgement requires a very rigorous investigation. Out of 6,700 claimed cures at Lourdes, only 67 have been confirmed; this article describes the process.

Apparitions are also thoroughly examined and are totally voluntary in terms of belief or devotion.
 
littlestsouls2 said:
How so?
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Because the normal experience is for bodies to decompose. And if an anomaly is found, and for some reason a body didn’t decompose, I can’t understand why it would be put on display, or dismembered and pieces be sent all over the world for display.

Because the thought of the Eucharist turning to flesh or blood in front of my eyes frankly, creeps me out, and I can’t understand wanting to be anywhere near that occurrence. And because again, it’s not the norm for the bread and wine to have the actual appearance of flesh and blood (mind you I’m still wrapping my mind around the Real Presence).

Because having a visit from someone who has long been dead would scare me to no end! And again, normally people don’t see physically dead people/saints.

Also, because so many claims have proven false, it’s hard to believe any of them…maybe that just me though.

I realize for some these things might bring them closer to God, but for me, I am naturally skeptical and if I’m honest, these things pretty much creep me out. Again, I mean no offense to those who see it differently. I only clarify because you’ve asked.
 
Jennifer132 said:
Hello all. I am a Protestant considering Catholicism. I am an avid reader, and my Protestant upbringing has given me the gift of an insatiable hunger for knowledge, especially Biblical knowledge and apologetics. Over the last several months I have read a number of books on Catholic theology, and I find them to be interesting, convincing, and Biblical. In fact, my reading has brought me ever closer to conversion.

But every now and then I come across something “mystical”, if you will, in Catholicism, and again, my Protestant (evangelical) upbringing fairly flinches at these things. Some of the things that I just can’t seem to “get” are apparitions of Mary, Eucharistic miracles, and incorruptible bodies. Intellectually they don’t make sense, and that’s proven hard for me to swallow. I’m not one to lead with the emotions.

Does anyone have any advice on this matter? Must I believe in these things to be Catholic? Is it wrong or sinful to be skeptical? Is there any reason these things must be/should be a part of my faith? I am not one who blindly accepts “miracles” in part because I have been hurt by some of the more charismatic denominations in Protestantism who really do make miracles up to gain converts. Well to me, these mystical things have the opposite affect-they drive me away!

I hope this question doesn’t offend anyone. Please understand I’m not bringing this up to offend or debate. I am truly struggling to understand their purpose and importance to my faith.
Click to expand...
I too am a very skeptical person. My religion is based on Faith founded in reason, but requiring that uncomfortable jump away from my assurance in my own rationality. You mention apparitions of Mary; Eucharistic miracles and incorruptible bodies.
I start with the Trinity; the Eucharist Itself and many other jumps in to the inconceivable that Christianity demands of me.
None of these things that creep you out are necessary to be a Catholic. There are only a few appearances of Mary that have the acceptance of the Church. I like you and Thomas want to put my hands into his wounds before I take that jump. Strangely the results of Lourdes; Fatima etc are somehow easier for me to believe than the Eucharist. Not everyone will promise a miracle in the future on a particular day and see thousands of believers and non-believers alike witness it. I see completely inexplicable healings at Lourdes and shake my head. But I can only rely on the Lord’s insistence on the literal meaning of Eat my Body that we find in the Bible to support my belief in the Eucharist. I cannot see anything changing, yet I believe. (I am taking that to my God on my death as proof of my faith. Unfortunately it also justifies my condemnation at my failings with the gift of this knowledge. But that is another issue I will have to discuss fairly soon. )

I believe Eucharistic miracles are for me and others finding this teaching hard and yet trying to stay with the Master. His gift? We can take them or leave them and still be Catholic.
Incorruptible bodies? Don’t need to believe these either. Look at Lenin and what they can do nowadays with cosmetics. (No Dear, I wasn’t saying anything about you. Sorry, the wife. ) I look at Bernardette at Nevers and realise that there is cosmetic remedial work done on the body on display. But there is still a body where it should have decayed long ago. It matters little to me and should not give you reason to question the validity of Catholicism. Take it or leave it. It is not necessary.
Keep your reason, your skepticism but remember the need to jump at some stage in the journey.
 
Dear OP,

As a former evangelical and now Catholic revert, let me say that I have been on your page.

In all honesty, though, you ought to admit that being “crept out” by something is not an intellectual argument at all, but a visceral one. Let’s use our minds for searching, not our gut! IMNAAHO!

Also, every item that bothers you has an even more mysterious counterpart in Scripture:

Incorruptible bodies: Enoch and Elijah in the OT going to Heaven alive!

Eucharistic Miracles: The Heavenly Manna in the Pentateuch.

Marian Apparitions: The voices of angels in both Testaments. The apparition of Samuel to the Endor witch on the last night of King Saul’s life. The experience of Saint John.

It is true that none of the Church-age manifestations are requirements of faith, but as a Biblical Christian, you should admit that God could give signs in these ways even now.

Amigo, Blessed Lent, and ICXC NIKA.
 
Dear Jennifer,

There’s not much I can add to GEddie’s response.

These miracles are not the norm, and it is prudent to exercise caution. But rmember that the lives of the Saints, and the history of the Church, is full of marvels.

Incorrupt bodies remind us that the Blessed live forever. They also call to mind the resurrection of the body, and the truth that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. Lessons can also be drawn from other miracles in the Church.
 
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