Marthoma community (Anglican Communion)

[SyroMalankara]

This thread is intended to discuss the merits of the claims of the Marthoma community, it’s claims to Apostolic Succession, and mainly its claim that it preserves the authentic faith of the St. Thomas Christians who were converted by Saint Thomas the Apostle.

In this thread, please DO NOT mention Trisshurian Syro-Malabar theories. Any mentions of fact should, if questioned, should be backed up with scholarly and/or academic citation - do not cite personal opinion as fact - if this opinion is questioned, be prepared to explain and defend your position using primary and secondary sources. Do not cite yourself.

It is perfectly acceptable to state “My theory is” such and such, but DO NOT cite it as FACT without scholarly basis.

Do not launch any personal attacks.

Do not derail this thread by mentioning things which have nothing to do with the topic (e.g. Everyone should be Syrian Orthodox under Antioch, etc)

Tangents which form from free discussion are perfectly acceptable, provided that any questions which come up in regard to the appropriate topic are throughly discussed and answered.

 

[SyroMalankara]

In another thread, poster Eaglewatch stated that in his view, the Marthoma community preserves the authentic faith as practiced by the St. Thomas Christians of the Malabar Coast.

I find this position highly untenable. The authentic faith of the St. Thomas Christians is the same faith as the authentic faith of the Antiochian Christians, which is the same as the authentic faith of the Roman Christians, which is the same faith as all Apostolic Churches, which is the faith handed to us from the Apostles in Christ Jesus.

When the Marthoma church claims that they have “preserved the authentic faith”, it implies that the other Apostolic Christian groups have diverted from that faith. Reason and history tells us that in regard to Eucharist, the Episcopate, Saints, prayers for the departed, Scripture and Sacred Tradition - the beliefs of the the Oriental Orthodox Communion (which is the Malankara, Armenians, Ethiopians, Copts, Syrians, Eritreans) is the same as the Eastern Orthodox Communion (Greek, Russian, Slavic,etc) and the Catholic Communion (Latin, Byzantine, Chaldean, Syriac, Alexandrian, Armenian, Indian)- how can the Marthoma community then claim, logically, that they ALONE have preserved the authentic faith? Logically, their claims lead to the conclusion that ALL other Christian Churches accepted heresy, if that is the claim, it begs the question when did this first happen - when did the vast majority of Christians fall into heresy that only the Marthomites were able to free themselves from?

 

[lukathomas]

A typical Mar Thoma Church member presents there history with their lineage – that is which Protestant Reformation concept. I think that is the reason why they make all claims.
But there are scholars among them who have mentioned these changes. They are a group which followed Anglicans and were known as Navikaranakar or Reformed Jacobites till they took the name Mar Thoma Church.

Church doctrine, liturgy is thoroughly protestant and some among them has problems in accepting that and that may be the reason behind all the claims.

 

[SyroMalankara]

EagleWatch or any other Marthoma (the community in Communion with the Anglicans, and Church of South/North India) member - I would value a response from you. Thank you in advance.

 

[mathewjoseph]

One fact is that Mar Thoma church is one of the fastest growing churces in Kerala in terms of institutions. Earlier it was the catholic church. Now government and political parties are trying to destroy or sideline the catholic church. This was observed when the Communist party state secretary met the Mar Thoma church head and previous head. After that the Mar Thoma head met with the Chief minister.
As far as I know, Mar Thoma church do not give importance to Mother mary.
May I share my life experiences.
Up to 20 years old, I was grown in my home. It was very old house 200 years old, not much facilities. Always there were quarrels in my house. Like all other catholics, we had rosary all days evening. There was much anrachy and unhappiness in my life during that period.
I went for a bible convention conducted by Chittoor team in my nearby town. There one father talked on Mother mary. He talked about a priest Fr George Manackal who left the catholic church because of giving importance to Mother mary. In the convention the Father told about Mary and her importance. He said he had no benefits and no hazards in his life because of his prayer to Mother mary.
Then I found that the protestants and Pentecostal churches do not give importance to mary. They use the prayers to Holy spirit much. I found they have much economic growth compared to catholics.
Any way I bought a small prayer book from the convention centre containing some prayers and also rosary. All the prayers are to Jesus, Holy spirit and some to Mother mary. I started praying all the prayers in that book once a day except rosary. Rosary was there in my home every evening. After reading the prayers my mind was filled with happiness and I built much confidence. After some months, I found there is much prosperity in my home. We had new house, jobs, happiness everything.
Then to our discussion. I found there are a number of sayings on mother mary during Syro malankara or Syriac orthodox mass. In the beginning of the mass, the priest says “Mother mary who delivered you…”, Then in the next song there is mention on mother mary, “nin maathaavu visudhnmar…”. The nat the beginning of gospel, priest says, “you who got flesh from Virgin mary…”. Then again in the mass there are some mentions on mary. Thus here there is much importance given to mother mary. I don’t know any thing on other prayers in other occassions. There may be much importance to mary.
You compare my life experiences with this, then mar thoma church. My question is that whether mar thoma church is right in such cases.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Any Marthoma members interested to post their perspective?

 

[ninan]

Marthoma Church is a wolf (protestant Church) in a sheep’s (Syrian tradition and vestments) hide.

They are protestants by all means.

The gullible Orthodox and Jacobites fall easy prey for them.

Even Syro-Malankara Catholic laity thinks of marriage with them as they too follow Antiochean liturgy.

It is only the liturgy.

The beleif is PURELY Protestant and ANTI-CATHOLIC.BEWARE.

 

[rajun]

In another thread, poster Eaglewatch stated that in his view, the Marthoma community preserves the authentic faith as practiced by the St. Thomas Christians of the Malabar Coast.

I find this position highly untenable. The authentic faith of the St. Thomas Christians is the same faith as the authentic faith of the Antiochian Christians, which is the same as the authentic faith of the Roman Christians, which is the same faith as all Apostolic Churches, which is the faith handed to us from the Apostles in Christ Jesus.

When the Marthoma church claims that they have “preserved the authentic faith”, it implies that the other Apostolic Christian groups have diverted from that faith. Reason and history tells us that in regard to Eucharist, the Episcopate, Saints, prayers for the departed, Scripture and Sacred Tradition - the beliefs of the the Oriental Orthodox Communion (which is the Malankara, Armenians, Ethiopians, Copts, Syrians, Eritreans) is the same as the Eastern Orthodox Communion (Greek, Russian, Slavic,etc) and the Catholic Communion (Latin, Byzantine, Chaldean, Syriac, Alexandrian, Armenian, Indian)- how can the Marthoma community then claim, logically, that they ALONE have preserved the authentic faith? Logically, their claims lead to the conclusion that ALL other Christian Churches accepted heresy, if that is the claim, it begs the question when did this first happen - when did the vast majority of Christians fall into heresy that only the Marthomites were able to free themselves from?

I see it is of no use to quarrel with a malankara catholic about marthoma church as both came from the same root, the malankara church. About the apostolic succession :- in whatever ways the malakara church claims its apostolic succession, marthoma church also can claim that. It is unquestionable, means its a FACT. And they are not like the malankara catholics, that means they are purely Indian church,their Head is an Indian, as from the Marthoma 1. They never tried to join the capitalist catholics or other opportunists.

 

[rajun]

One fact is that Mar Thoma church is one of the fastest growing churces in Kerala in terms of institutions. Earlier it was the catholic church. Now government and political parties are trying to destroy or sideline the catholic church. This was observed when the Communist party state secretary met the Mar Thoma church head and previous head. After that the Mar Thoma head met with the Chief minister.
As far as I know, Mar Thoma church do not give importance to Mother mary.
May I share my life experiences.
Up to 20 years old, I was grown in my home. It was very old house 200 years old, not much facilities. Always there were quarrels in my house. Like all other catholics, we had rosary all days evening. There was much anrachy and unhappiness in my life during that period.
I went for a bible convention conducted by Chittoor team in my nearby town. There one father talked on Mother mary. He talked about a priest Fr George Manackal who left the catholic church because of giving importance to Mother mary. In the convention the Father told about Mary and her importance. He said he had no benefits and no hazards in his life because of his prayer to Mother mary.
Then I found that the protestants and Pentecostal churches do not give importance to mary. They use the prayers to Holy spirit much. I found they have much economic growth compared to catholics.
Any way I bought a small prayer book from the convention centre containing some prayers and also rosary. All the prayers are to Jesus, Holy spirit and some to Mother mary. I started praying all the prayers in that book once a day except rosary. Rosary was there in my home every evening. After reading the prayers my mind was filled with happiness and I built much confidence. After some months, I found there is much prosperity in my home. We had new house, jobs, happiness everything.
Then to our discussion. I found there are a number of sayings on mother mary during Syro malankara or Syriac orthodox mass. In the beginning of the mass, the priest says “Mother mary who delivered you…”, Then in the next song there is mention on mother mary, “nin maathaavu visudhnmar…”. The nat the beginning of gospel, priest says, “you who got flesh from Virgin mary…”. Then again in the mass there are some mentions on mary. Thus here there is much importance given to mother mary. I don’t know any thing on other prayers in other occassions. There may be much importance to mary.
You compare my life experiences with this, then mar thoma church. My question is that whether mar thoma church is right in such cases.

About the business mind of churches: - According to my knowledge Marthoma church is the 3rd largest christian community after the syro malabar church, and Orthodox-jacobite churches. But compared to these churches the marthoma church is bad business man
It do not have any self finance medical college like pushpagiri. It do not operate any such high profitable institutions . These all are FACTS. The malankara catholics are the largest growing christian community in terms of money. Look at the institutions they are having even though they are a small community of around 4lakh adherents. One medical college none other than pushpagiri, kerala’s most Infamous college for its huge fee structure.together with dental colleges. And one engineering college at Trivandrum.More than these thoughts, the business of syro malabar church is largest . It is the biggest owner of land in kerala. Now think and comment who is doing business here.

 

[rajun]

Marthoma Church is a wolf (protestant Church) in a sheep’s (Syrian tradition and vestments) hide.

They are protestants by all means.

The gullible Orthodox and Jacobites fall easy prey for them.

Even Syro-Malankara Catholic laity thinks of marriage with them as they too follow Antiochean liturgy.

It is only the liturgy.

The beleif is PURELY Protestant and ANTI-CATHOLIC.BEWARE.

They are far better compared to the wolves like catholic church, who has stolen all the sheeps of malankara church and killed thousands of people to bring the church under them. How can a church who claimed ‘the sun rotates around the earth’ and tried to kill those who oppose them be a Holy church? Did any other churches have done these sorts of crimes in the entire history of world? No, still they says they are the true christians. Dont you know that the church in India is under the throne of St Thomas. And the throne is now maintained by Orthodox church. I think they are not protestants, but their do share the good side of both orthodox and protestants as a true church of Jesus son of Our God.

 

[rajun]

In another thread, poster Eaglewatch stated that in his view, the Marthoma community preserves the authentic faith as practiced by the St. Thomas Christians of the Malabar Coast.

I find this position highly untenable. The authentic faith of the St. Thomas Christians is the same faith as the authentic faith of the Antiochian Christians, which is the same as the authentic faith of the Roman Christians, which is the same faith as all Apostolic Churches, which is the faith handed to us from the Apostles in Christ Jesus.

When the Marthoma church claims that they have “preserved the authentic faith”, it implies that the other Apostolic Christian groups have diverted from that faith. Reason and history tells us that in regard to Eucharist, the Episcopate, Saints, prayers for the departed, Scripture and Sacred Tradition - the beliefs of the the Oriental Orthodox Communion (which is the Malankara, Armenians, Ethiopians, Copts, Syrians, Eritreans) is the same as the Eastern Orthodox Communion (Greek, Russian, Slavic,etc) and the Catholic Communion (Latin, Byzantine, Chaldean, Syriac, Alexandrian, Armenian, Indian)- how can the Marthoma community then claim, logically, that they ALONE have preserved the authentic faith? Logically, their claims lead to the conclusion that ALL other Christian Churches accepted heresy, if that is the claim, it begs the question when did this first happen - when did the vast majority of Christians fall into heresy that only the Marthomites were able to free themselves from?

I dont know whether you have any knowledge of history. anyway I will put what I have learned as an Indian Historian who seeks the roots of religions originated in India.
The rituals majorly which were removed by the Marthomans are actually came to indian church from the influence of majorly Romans , who burned all the books and rules of old malankara churh into ashes after the synod of diamper. The best example is the marriage of priests. Romans tried to implement their faith like prayers to saints,Mary and worshiping the Idols.Those were there in the Roman catholic church due to the influence of old Roman culture. What they did is to conquer the world in other means, by making all the churches under the Throne of Rome, who claims it as the throne of peter like the malankara church claims about st thomas. The formation of syro malabar church was not in christian manner. ’ The controversial Syond of Diamper canonized Romanization of the Church of Saint Thomas Christians.[6] Aleixo de Menezes, laboring under the shadow of the Protestant Reformation and the Council of Trent, was unwilling to give an inch to the customs of the Saint Thomas Christians.’ some examples admit and receive all the customs rites and ceremonies recieved and approved in the Roman Church’ Session II decree I.Images painted after ‘our manner’ are to be placed in all churches…session III decree I Ch IX.The Syriac lectionary is to be replaced by The Vulgar latin edition made use by Holy Mother Church-Session III decree II.prohibition of the east Syrian baptismal formula and prescribed that which is followed by the Roman Church- session IV decree I.baptismal water shall be blessed by the Holy chrism according to the Roman ceremonial-session
More :

"This year being the fourth centenary of the Synod of Diamper (Udayamperur) which was held from the 20th to the 26th June 1599, we, the members of the Joint International Commission for Dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Malankara Orthodox Church consider it very opportune to share with our brothers and sisters of both the Churches our findings on the nature and consequences of the Synod of Diamper with the firm hope of creating an increasing awareness of the urgent need of healing the bitter memories of the past which stand in the way of our reconciliation and mutual communion.

The undivided ancient apostolic Church of the St. Thomas Christians came into contact with the Portuguese in the sixteenth century. The Roman Catholic Missionaries who accompanied them, unjustly accused the St. Thomas Christians of upholding Nestorianism. Through the Goan Synods and through the seminary formation at Cranganore. Vaipinkotta etc., there was a systematic attempt to conform the indigenous Church to the Latin Church.

The activities in connection with the Synod of Diamper brought drastic changes in the ecclesiastical life of the St. Thomas Christians. Westernization and Latinization were the main results of the activities of the missionaries and the colonial power. The Church was forced to adopt several changes in the Latin direction. Consequently the identity and the heritage of the St. Thomas Christians were severely distorted.

As is evident from the canons of the Synod, under the direction of the missionaries, the liturgy was mutilated, the hierarchical relation with the Persian Church was discontinued and substantial changes regarding the practices and tradition of the St. Thomas Christians were introduced.

Despite certain positive aspects great damage was done to the ecclesial heritage of this local Church by the Synod. The saddest consequence of the Synod was the loss of freedom and the division of the one apostolic ancient Church in India into two, one section which later came to be known as the Syro Malabar Church and the other one as the Malankara Orthodox Church. This also led to further divisions and all sections of the St. Thomas Christians are suffering from it.

This common reading of such a crucial historical event in the life of St. Thomas Christians takes us a long way in our search for reconciliation and rediscovery of the identity of the Churches of St. Thomas tradition."

 

[rajun]

-it begs the question when did this first happen - when did the vast majority of Christians fall into heresy that only the Marthomites were able to free themselves from?

Then about mother mary:
All malankara churches sees Mary as a saint. The reformed church marthoma also shows importance to mary. The service starts with “born from mary and baptized by john…” But unlike the other malankara christians and catholics they do not pray to Mary. according to their views why should they go to mary if Jesus is near to us. The primary importance is given to the bible, not for the words of Bishops. As in catholic church all the traditions look unchristian only because of the additions and subtractions done by the bishops and rulers of Rome.

If what majority says is always considered as truth, then how the disciples followed Jesus? Don’t conclude some one is doing wrong when he is different from others.Everyone was against Jesus at that time except a few, but still u believe He is the truth, then why are u saying they marthomites are happened to be in wrong faith. Never put such kind of comments.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Do you realize that you resurrected a thread that was THREE YEARS OLD?

Only to rail against the Catholic Church, on a Catholic forum.

How ridiculous.

 

[rajanmathews]

One fact is that Mar Thoma church is one of the fastest growing churces in Kerala in terms of institutions. Earlier it was the catholic church. Now government and political parties are trying to destroy or sideline the catholic church. This was observed when the Communist party state secretary met the Mar Thoma church head and previous head. After that the Mar Thoma head met with the Chief minister.
As far as I know, Mar Thoma church do not give importance to Mother mary.
May I share my life experiences.
Up to 20 years old, I was grown in my home. It was very old house 200 years old, not much facilities. Always there were quarrels in my house. Like all other catholics, we had rosary all days evening. There was much anrachy and unhappiness in my life during that period.
I went for a bible convention conducted by Chittoor team in my nearby town. There one father talked on Mother mary. He talked about a priest Fr George Manackal who left the catholic church because of giving importance to Mother mary. In the convention the Father told about Mary and her importance. He said he had no benefits and no hazards in his life because of his prayer to Mother mary.
Then I found that the protestants and Pentecostal churches do not give importance to mary. They use the prayers to Holy spirit much. I found they have much economic growth compared to catholics.
Any way I bought a small prayer book from the convention centre containing some prayers and also rosary. All the prayers are to Jesus, Holy spirit and some to Mother mary. I started praying all the prayers in that book once a day except rosary. Rosary was there in my home every evening. After reading the prayers my mind was filled with happiness and I built much confidence. After some months, I found there is much prosperity in my home. We had new house, jobs, happiness everything.
Then to our discussion. I found there are a number of sayings on mother mary during Syro malankara or Syriac orthodox mass. In the beginning of the mass, the priest says “Mother mary who delivered you…”, Then in the next song there is mention on mother mary, “nin maathaavu visudhnmar…”. The nat the beginning of gospel, priest says, “you who got flesh from Virgin mary…”. Then again in the mass there are some mentions on mary. Thus here there is much importance given to mother mary. I don’t know any thing on other prayers in other occassions. There may be much importance to mary.
You compare my life experiences with this, then mar thoma church. My question is that whether mar thoma church is right in such cases.

The very first thing I am mentioning here is a great mistake you have written- “One fact is that Mar Thoma church is one of the fastest growing churces in Kerala in terms of institutions” you should never say it as a fact if you dont know the details.Even now the Catholic church is the biggest growing church in terms of institutions .Especially the syro malankaras. Look at the size of that church. The total faithfuls will not exceed 5lakhs. But they have an engineering college, a Medical college and lot of institutions. The Marthoma church never gave importance in making profit by starting such institutions. Compared to malankara catholics,Orthodox and catholics Marthoma church have nothing. I am sure this post will be removed as it opposes the idea of a catholic man.

 

[rajanmathews]

One fact is that Mar Thoma church is one of the fastest growing churces in Kerala in terms of institutions. Earlier it was the catholic church. Now government and political parties are trying to destroy or sideline the catholic church. This was observed when the Communist party state secretary met the Mar Thoma church head and previous head. After that the Mar Thoma head met with the Chief minister.
As far as I know, Mar Thoma church do not give importance to Mother mary.
May I share my life experiences.
Up to 20 years old, I was grown in my home. It was very old house 200 years old, not much facilities. Always there were quarrels in my house. Like all other catholics, we had rosary all days evening. There was much anrachy and unhappiness in my life during that period.
I went for a bible convention conducted by Chittoor team in my nearby town. There one father talked on Mother mary. He talked about a priest Fr George Manackal who left the catholic church because of giving importance to Mother mary. In the convention the Father told about Mary and her importance. He said he had no benefits and no hazards in his life because of his prayer to Mother mary.
Then I found that the protestants and Pentecostal churches do not give importance to mary. They use the prayers to Holy spirit much. I found they have much economic growth compared to catholics.
Any way I bought a small prayer book from the convention centre containing some prayers and also rosary. All the prayers are to Jesus, Holy spirit and some to Mother mary. I started praying all the prayers in that book once a day except rosary. Rosary was there in my home every evening. After reading the prayers my mind was filled with happiness and I built much confidence. After some months, I found there is much prosperity in my home. We had new house, jobs, happiness everything.
Then to our discussion. I found there are a number of sayings on mother mary during Syro malankara or Syriac orthodox mass. In the beginning of the mass, the priest says “Mother mary who delivered you…”, Then in the next song there is mention on mother mary, “nin maathaavu visudhnmar…”. The nat the beginning of gospel, priest says, “you who got flesh from Virgin mary…”. Then again in the mass there are some mentions on mary. Thus here there is much importance given to mother mary. I don’t know any thing on other prayers in other occassions. There may be much importance to mary.
You compare my life experiences with this, then mar thoma church. My question is that whether mar thoma church is right in such cases.

The marthoma church is giving importance to Mary and all other saints whose names are written in the Bible. Even marthoma churches mass begins with “Mother mary who delivered you…” and the next portion contains " vishudha kanyaka mariyamil ninnu janichu …" How can you say that Marthoma church is not giving importance to mother Mary? We respect all saints but we will not pray to them . We are not doing so because Jesus himself teaches us to pray to Our Father our God in Jesus Christ’s name . What else we need other than this word from our savior?
The major difference of Marthoma church with other churches is, its giving more importance to the word of God, The Bible than the word of other humans.

 

[rajanmathews]

In another thread, poster Eaglewatch stated that in his view, the Marthoma community preserves the authentic faith as practiced by the St. Thomas Christians of the Malabar Coast.

I find this position highly untenable. The authentic faith of the St. Thomas Christians is the same faith as the authentic faith of the Antiochian Christians, which is the same as the authentic faith of the Roman Christians, which is the same faith as all Apostolic Churches, which is the faith handed to us from the Apostles in Christ Jesus.

When the Marthoma church claims that they have “preserved the authentic faith”, it implies that the other Apostolic Christian groups have diverted from that faith. Reason and history tells us that in regard to Eucharist, the Episcopate, Saints, prayers for the departed, Scripture and Sacred Tradition - the beliefs of the the Oriental Orthodox Communion (which is the Malankara, Armenians, Ethiopians, Copts, Syrians, Eritreans) is the same as the Eastern Orthodox Communion (Greek, Russian, Slavic,etc) and the Catholic Communion (Latin, Byzantine, Chaldean, Syriac, Alexandrian, Armenian, Indian)- how can the Marthoma community then claim, logically, that they ALONE have preserved the authentic faith? Logically, their claims lead to the conclusion that ALL other Christian Churches accepted heresy, if that is the claim, it begs the question when did this first happen - when did the vast majority of Christians fall into heresy that only the Marthomites were able to free themselves from?

First I am questioning the intention behind this post. If someone really wants to know about the theories and how marthoma church preserved the Authentic faith of MarThoma christians your have to contact a person who knows the correct things. A catholic forum like this wont contribute anything healthy. The members like SyroMalankara will end up in such a conclusions like " MarThoma church is from Evil not from God". Anyway, what I want to tell SyroMalankara is according to my knowledge Marthoma church preserved the authentic faith of St thomas christians to a certain level.
It is evident from the synod of diamper that the Malankara church,
denied the doctrine of Transubstantiation.
maintained the spiritual presence of the body and blood of Christ in the sacrament.
condemned the adoration of images as idolatrous.
were not aware of the intercession of the saints.
were not aware of prayers for the dead.
had no knowledge of purgatory.
had no knowledge of extreme unction.
had no knowledge of auricular confession.
did not follow celibacy of the clergy.

The reformation in Marthoma church was influenced by Anglicans since the similarity of their beliefs with the old St Thomas christian beliefs. The Malankara metropolitan of that time decided to cleanse the church by rejecting the unholy practices which were injected by portugese or Romans.
Why should Mar Thoma XI, decide so if the practices we were following was correct?
It is evident that there existed some unholy practices. But later it was Cheppad Mar Dionysius who became Marthoma XII moved away from the reformation activities. The reformation lost its wings but the faithfuls who were supporting the reformation stood against the bishop’s decision and thus forming Marthoma church. Marthoma church is formed out of FAITH , its not formed out of any activity to put the malankara church under any foreign denomination. It became independent as it was before the arrival of catholics. This is my knowledge there can be some points where malankara catholics cannot agree.
You can say there is no data available without bias about reformation , since you are also biased by your communion with catholic church.

 

[rajanmathews]

This thread is intended to discuss the merits of the claims of the Marthoma community, it’s claims to Apostolic Succession, and mainly its claim that it preserves the authentic faith of the St. Thomas Christians who were converted by Saint Thomas the Apostle.

In this thread, please DO NOT mention Trisshurian Syro-Malabar theories. Any mentions of fact should, if questioned, should be backed up with scholarly and/or academic citation - do not cite personal opinion as fact - if this opinion is questioned, be prepared to explain and defend your position using primary and secondary sources. Do not cite yourself.

It is perfectly acceptable to state “My theory is” such and such, but DO NOT cite it as FACT without scholarly basis.

Do not launch any personal attacks.

Do not derail this thread by mentioning things which have nothing to do with the topic (e.g. Everyone should be Syrian Orthodox under Antioch, etc)

Tangents which form from free discussion are perfectly acceptable, provided that any questions which come up in regard to the appropriate topic are throughly discussed and answered.

About the apostolic succession even Syro malabar church, which moved away from st Thomas christian community’s old beliefs and practices, celebrates “2000 Years of succession from Apostle St Thomas” , then The Mar Thoma church has much more reasons to celebrate and believe the apostolic succession of her from St Thomas. The throne of st Thomas is the Throne of Marthoma Church as The Throne of Peter is the Throne of catholic church , both are beliefs.

 

[josethomas2005]

Dear Rajan Mathews,
There is no such thing as ‘Throne of St Thomas’. there is only one throne, that is throne of St. Peter. also recently some catholic bishops said that throne of st Peter is at Antioch, and not at Rome.
Then abot the formation of Marthoma church. In a posat by the user ‘SyroMalankara’, ‘SyroMalankara’ said that Marthoma church was formed as a rsult of getting a lot of money from the British. British was ruling India during that priod. One malpan, I don’t remmber his name got a lot of money from British and as a result he anglicanised the church.
I don’t want to say against another church. My opinion is that God is taking care of all. God may have plans with all these churches.

 

[LightBound]

Old thread

 

[rajantoms]

This thread is intended to discuss the merits of the claims of the Marthoma community, it’s claims to Apostolic Succession, and mainly its claim that it preserves the authentic faith of the St. Thomas Christians who were converted by Saint Thomas the Apostle.

In this thread, please DO NOT mention Trisshurian Syro-Malabar theories. Any mentions of fact should, if questioned, should be backed up with scholarly and/or academic citation - do not cite personal opinion as fact - if this opinion is questioned, be prepared to explain and defend your position using primary and secondary sources. Do not cite yourself.

It is perfectly acceptable to state “My theory is” such and such, but DO NOT cite it as FACT without scholarly basis.

Do not launch any personal attacks.

Do not derail this thread by mentioning things which have nothing to do with the topic (e.g. Everyone should be Syrian Orthodox under Antioch, etc)

Tangents which form from free discussion are perfectly acceptable, provided that any questions which come up in regard to the appropriate topic are throughly discussed and answered.

Whay Mr SyroMalankara want is some one who praises the betrayal of Mar Ivanios and then make all other non catholic churches evil. So I am not at all gonna post any comments other than this here . If you really want to know about marthoma church , learn some history , not biased by the dogmatic narrow view of catholics, and then ask a marthoma priest . The intention behind this post is to attack Marthomites and to remove the "Betrayer " label from syro malankara church .