Martial Arts

[vera_dicere]

Excuse me if somethign like this has already been posted, and excuse me if my spelling is off… but I mean like Kung Fu and the likes.

Anyway, I got a book yesterday about how Martial arts is contray to christain beleif and living, especially the ones that have all the channellign of Chi and other such energies, that I realise will be against church teaching. But it discussed that even those who use it for “just exercise” are being fooled into Satan’s clutches. Furthermore, it talked about how such arts invited the spirit of violence into one’s life, because even though it teaches that you’re not supposed to strike out, you’re secreting wishing someone would so you could try out your skills.

It talked of Pride also being allowed into ones soul by means that you knew something others didn’t and that it gave people levels of skill which added to the spirit of pride being present.

It spoke of Pilates being orginally an innocent concept but had been adopted by Yoga and other spiritual medium people and had thusly been polluted.

I don’t do MAs of any kind, although I did ninjitsu years ago (but left, even as a 14yr old I felt something was “spirituality” dangers… other then my spelling), and I’m just wondering what other Catholics think of this - as this book thing was written by a protestant.

 

[Church_Militant]

As a nidan in Japanese karate for about 14 years, let me assure you that only if one espouses the non-Christian faiths should one ever be concerned.

“Ki” is actually focusing one’s force and power.

Scientifically explained, it works out about like this.

effect= force applied at a given point at a given instant.

“Ki” & “chi” are names for the same thing and mainly have to do with one’s fighting spirit and the will to never give up.

There are arts and more specifically instructors that teach from a religious POV, but the arts themselves. properly taught, are not generally found to be like that and are indeed advantageous for most people.

Keep in mind that there were indeed Catholic Samurai.

Do some research into the Shimabara rebellion.

 

[otjm]

One can study a method of offense or defense without having to imbue religious principles. Depends on where you choose to go. Some of it may couched in Eastern philosophical, theological or mystical terms; you may need to sort through that. But the issue of putting your fist through a pine plank is really about applied force and overcoming your belief that it can’t be done; or how to make a certain kick or follow through using the impetus of your opponent’s motion. Hardly a religioug issue.

Note, there are some peole who believe, wrongly, that anything that someone chooses to tie to Eastern religion is therefore somehow the work of the devil. The Church’s postion about other religions is a tad more nuanced than that. You might look at what Vatican 2 said about other religions, and see the Catechism.

 

[teachccd]

I was in Tae Kwon Do many years ago and never found it to be philosophical. We did meditate but that included moments of breathing concentrations and silence. View this as a sport and incorporate your own spirituality during those meditative moments. Yes, there is a chance that you may injure someone, but no different than football or any other sport. If you are mature you would understand that you’re not out there looking for combat. Intention is everything here. God Bless

 

[AquinaSavio]

I am a first degree black belt in Taekwon-Do. The creator of this martial art was Buddhist, but he created the art so that people of all religions could join. The philosophies of respecting seniors, peace, integrity, and courtesy are stressed. Nothing is contrary to the Catholic faith (although we are required to learn some histories of Buddhist heroes ).

Taekwon-Do does not instill pride…quite the contrary. It is not very easy for many grown-up people to be corrected by a second degree black belt that is 14 years old. Often, children as young as 10 are used to teach adults that are just starting out.

 

[aj830]

Martial Arts vary from style to style and from school to school. Most arts are not under one thing(there are rather large organizations like American Tae Kwon Do Association and Shotokan Karate but not everyone under one belt no pun intended) Most American Martial Arts have no real religious influence on them or any philosphical ideas. The more traditional the school the higher chance you will have of their being philosophical or religious concepts. The more “Americanized” they will most likely have nothing more than learning some anatomy to be more efficient.

Now I do not know so much about Martial Arts in Asia. I know in of a few traditional Asian forms that do involve worship of their founder which is similar to eastern “ancestor worship”. So of course not all martial arts are wholesome. There are not many if any schools like this in America. What I would be more worried about is getting a psychotic man who teaches hatred of attackers and to go for the kill no matter the attacker. You must investigate the school before attending and make sure there is not someone like this but I would say over 99% of the Martial Arts schools in America do not teach violence but rather self-defense.

  I my self am a 3rd degree Blackbelt in Tae Kwon Do and have never had anything contrary to the Catholic faith taught.  We teach constantly that you are never to use martial arts except in emergencys.  If a student starts to use it on others out of malice we immeaditley kick them out of the school and remove their rank.

Furthermore, it talked about how such arts invited the spirit of violence into one’s life, because even though it teaches that you’re not supposed to strike out, you’re secreting wishing someone would so you could try out your skills.

If someone seeks out violence and has a “secret wishing” to try their skills they are not a martial artist. They are a mere common thug. I learn to fight so I don’t have to. However if my life or my family’s life was in danger I would defend myself and them as stated in the Catechism:

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. “The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one’s own life; and the killing of the aggressor. . . . The one is intended, the other is not.”

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one’s own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful. . . . Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one’s own life than of another’s.

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a **grave duty **for one who is responsible for the lives of others. The defense of the common good requires that an unjust aggressor be rendered unable to cause harm. For this reason, those who legitimately hold authority also have the right to use arms to repel aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their responsibility.

Notice the grave duty. Being a martial artist can be very helpful because you can defend yourself and know how much force to use without harming the attacker, beyond what you have to, yet still subdue him and protect your family.

God Bless
AJ

 

[DL82]

Furthermore, it talked about how such arts invited the spirit of violence into one’s life, because even though it teaches that you’re not supposed to strike out, you’re secreting wishing someone would so you could try out your skills.

As someone who has practiced kendo and iaido (Japanese sword arts) it is always said that there are 3 levels of swordsmanship:
The one sword school - first you need to learn how to handle one sword, how to cut and stop your weapon.
The two sword school - as an advanced swordsman, you can draw the short-sword while holding the long-sword with one hand.
The no sword school - as an expert, you become so formidable in your swordsmanship that nobody dares fight you. This is the no sword school and is the highest form of kendo.

Any martial art that is about self-defence will have the effect of making you seem less of a weak target, of course, it’s about how you train, if you go in with the intention of hurting somebody, you’ll develop bad character, but also bad technique.

Studying the martial arts for ‘self-defence’ is a bit of a joke really, the length of time taken to learn to be strong enough that you could effectively defend yourself, weighed against the risk of actually being attacked, makes it a complete waste of time. Learning a martial art in order to go out and start fights is equally pointless. The only reason for us, in the West, to want to learn a martial art, is for the way that it disciplines the body, and for the enjoyment of it, the same as any other sport or art-form.

It talked of Pride also being allowed into ones soul by means that you knew something others didn’t and that it gave people levels of skill which added to the spirit of pride being present.

Again, all depends whether pride is there in the first place. You could say the same about someone who learns Latin for the wrong reasons, that can be a cause of spiritual pride.

I don’t do MAs of any kind, although I did ninjitsu years ago (but left, even as a 14yr old I felt something was “spirituality” dangers… other then my spelling), and I’m just wondering what other Catholics think of this - as this book thing was written by a protestant.

In other words, you did poor-quality Karate in the woods late at night! Sorry to burst your bubble, but there are about 20 actual ninjutsuka (ninjas) of shodan (black-belt) level in the whole of Japan, and all of them from ancient nin-po families that have been practicing the art for generations. There are also lots of con-merchants in America who think they will make more money and sound cooler by dressing in black and calling their mixture of modern karate and kick-boxing ‘ninjitsu’.

In my experience in the martial arts, any instructor who relies on mysticism or Eastern religions, or even ‘chi’/‘ki’ does so to disguise their own ignorance or poor technique. It’s all about control - you expect your instructor’s technique to work, so when he demonstrates it, you think he’s really flipped you on your back with one finger. That’s where the real spiritual threat lies, in letting yourself be conned by superstition and hocus-pocus, rather than testing whether the technique really is good for the body.

 

[Elzee]

I found a Christian maritial arts group via google: www.sellteam.org

From the pics and wording when I clicked around seems like a fundamentalist/non-denominational type group.

 

[Lissla_Lissar]

I don’t do martial arts, but my husband has his black belt in kobudo, his black belt equivalency in t’ai chi, and is mudansha in gozu-ryu karate. He’s planning on opening his own school when he reaches 2nd degree. I’m sort of steeped in martial arts theory and practice.

you’re secretly wishing someone would so you could try out your skills.

No. You’re not. You may spar, but the teaching I’ve encountered seriously discourages any desire to get into fights. Actually, the self-confidence and authority that practising martial arts gives makes it much easier and more likely that one would be defusing fight-type situations.

It talked of Pride also being allowed into ones soul by means that you knew something others didn’t and that it gave people levels of skill which added to the spirit of pride being present.

That’s a silly argument. Pride is always a problem in pretty much everything. That argument could be easily applied against doing anything well, in case of pride. A sense of accomplishment and confidence does not equal evil.

 

[vera_dicere]

Two things I’ve learnt from this thread:

One: Yay, it’s not as bad as I thought.

Two: I wasted $11.90 on that book.

Thanks for the replies. I don’t feel like I"m goign to Hell now for what I did as a kid…and for playing MA computer games. Heh.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I studied martial arts, including boxing between ages 39 and 42.

As far as the idea that the martial arts produces pride, I was humbled the majority of the time.

I switched over to Tai Chi which is more conducive for bodies over 40.

Jim