Martin Luther and The Ten Commandments

[OneTrueCathApos]

**Martin Luther did not believe all of God’s Ten Commandments, as recorded in Exodus 20:20-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. Both Exodus and Deuteronomy list the Ten commandments in the same order. Luther did not believe the Second Commandment, so he omitted it in his Large and Small Catechism. Therefore to show Ten Commandments in his Catechisms after eliminating the Second, he then takes the Tenth Commandment and divides it in two, showing it as number Nine and number Ten.
Wherever the Ten Commandments are on public display in our country,
they are always in the same order, and the same one’s as given in the Word of God. In order to prepare you for this deceit, Luther states on page 44 of the Small Catechism the following:

“The Lord gave the Ten Commandments, but he did not say which is the First, the Second, the Third etc…Not all churches use the same ordering in numbering the Commandments.”

This statement is to cover Luther’s deceit, should you notice in his Catechism that the Second Commandment of the bible is omitted by Luther. He then takes the Third commandment and lists it as the Second commandment.
**Very sneaky actions for a man who claimed to believe God’s Word!

 

[JonNC]

It has been my understanding that Luther and Lutherans number the commandments the same way as the Catholic Church. This is the first time I have heard this, my friend. Alas, here is what Luther says of the 10 Commandments in the Small Catechism. From
www.bookofconcord.org

The Ten Commandments

As the head of the family should teach them in a simple way to his household.

The First Commandment.

Thou shalt have no other gods.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear, love, and trust in God above all things.

The Second Commandment.

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord, thy God, in vain.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not curse, swear, use witchcraft, lie, or deceive by His name, but call upon it in every trouble, pray, praise, and give thanks.

The Third Commandment.

Thou shalt sanctify the holy-day.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not despise preaching and His Word, but hold it sacred, and gladly hear and learn it.

The Fourth Commandment.

Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother [that it may be well with thee and thou mayest live long upon the earth].

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not despise nor anger our parents and masters, but give them honor, serve, obey, and hold them in love and esteem.

The Fifth Commandment.

Thou shalt not kill.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not hurt nor harm our neighbor in his body, but help and befriend him in every bodily need [in every need and danger of life and body].

The Sixth Commandment.

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may lead a chaste and decent life in words and deeds, and each love and honor his spouse.

The Seventh Commandment.

Thou shalt not steal.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not take our neighbor’s money or property, nor get them by false ware or dealing, but help him to improve and protect his property and business [that his means are preserved and his condition is improved].

The Eighth Commandment.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not deceitfully belie, betray, slander, or defame our neighbor, but defend him, [think and] speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything.

The Ninth Commandment.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not craftily seek to get our neighbor’s inheritance or house, and obtain it by a show of [justice and] right, etc., but help and be of service to him in keeping it.

The Tenth Commandment.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, nor his man-servant, nor his maid-servant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is his.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not estrange, force, or entice away our neighbor’s wife, servants, or cattle, but urge them to stay and [diligently] do their duty.

What Does God Say of All These Commandments?

Answer.

He says thus (Exod. 20:5f): I the Lord, thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me, and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.

What does this mean?–Answer.

God threatens to punish all that transgress these commandments. Therefore we should dread His wrath and not act contrary to these commandments. But He promises grace and every blessing to all that keep these commandments. Therefore we should also love and trust in Him, and gladly do [zealously and diligently order our whole life] according to His commandments.

The Catholic numbering from
beginningcatholic.com/catholic-ten-commandments.html

Here are the Catholic Ten Commandments:

1)I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve.
2)You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3)Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4)Honor your father and your mother.
5)You shall not kill.
6)You shall not commit adultery.
7)You shall not steal.
8)You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9)You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10)You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

The 2nd appears to be the same in both.
Hope that helps.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

**Martin Luther did not believe all of God’s Ten Commandments, as recorded in Exodus 20:20-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. Both Exodus and Deuteronomy list the Ten commandments in the same order. Luther did not believe the Second Commandment, so he omitted it in his Large and Small Catechism. Therefore to show Ten Commandments in his Catechisms after eliminating the Second, he then takes the Tenth Commandment and divides it in two, showing it as number Nine and number Ten.
Wherever the Ten Commandments are on public display in our country,
they are always in the same order, and the same one’s as given in the Word of God. In order to prepare you for this deceit, Luther states on page 44 of the Small Catechism the following:

“The Lord gave the Ten Commandments, but he did not say which is the First, the Second, the Third etc…Not all churches use the same ordering in numbering the Commandments.”

This statement is to cover Luther’s deceit, should you notice in his Catechism that the Second Commandment of the bible is omitted by Luther. He then takes the Third commandment and lists it as the Second commandment.
**Very sneaky actions for a man who claimed to believe God’s Word!

Dear OneTrueCathApos,
It appears you took this almost word for word from the following website.
jesus-is-savior.com/BTP/Dr_Max_Younce/ten_commandments.htm

This is a viciously anti-Catholic and anti-Lutheran website. I personally would not rely on this site for any truth about the Catholic or Lutheran traditions. Mr. Stewart and Mr. Younce hate us both with equal venom. I would NEVER use this site to underatand or condemn Catholic teaching!

Jon

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

It doesn’t matter where it comes from, it is the truth about Luther because word for word is also in his Catechism as well as his biography.

 

[cascherman]

It doesn’t matter where it comes from, it is the truth about Luther because word for word is also in his Catechism as well as his biography.

We’ve been through this before in other threads, the numbering is different the content is the same.

I’m Catholic too but you won’t get very far with the ‘Luther is a heretic’ argument. Very few Christians, even Lutherans, claim to believe in everything Luther taught.

The key is, Luther threw the papacy and any Church authority out so when a ‘Lutheran’ or a protestant doesn’t like something Luther says they will simply don’t believe it. They need not leave any church or even say their faith is different.

edit- Oh BTW, I used to go to a Lutheran Church for 18 years, though I was never what I would consider Lutheran. Luther is mentioned very little. I remember him from confirmation class and that is about it.

 

[cascherman]

This is a viciously anti-Catholic and anti-Lutheran website. I personally would not rely on this site for any truth about the Catholic or Lutheran traditions. Mr. Stewart and Mr. Younce hate us both with equal venom. I would NEVER use this site to underatand or condemn Catholic teaching!

Jon

I agree with Jon pertaining to the above.

 

[ralphinal]

Check this out. If you count the individual “Shalt nots” and add in the Keep holy and Honor, there are more than 10!! The BIble is in error!

The Jewish faith numbers them differently than we do as well. Should we go back and use their system?

 

[Contarini]

It doesn’t matter where it comes from, it is the truth about Luther because word for word is also in his Catechism as well as his biography.

But you do realize that this is exactly the same numbering the Catholic Church uses, right?

Attack Luther on this one, and you are attacking the Catholic Church.

Edwin

 

[jblake]

ralphinal:

Check this out. If you count the individual “Shalt nots” and add in the Keep holy and Honor, there are more than 10!! The BIble is in error!

If you bothered to read the Bible for yourself, you’d know that they are numbered, and that they are exactly ten of them. However, they aren’t the ten that you think that they are.

jonathon

 

[ralphinal]

If you bothered to read the Bible for yourself, you’d know that they are numbered, and that they are exactly ten of them. However, they aren’t the ten that you think that they are.

jonathon

Do tell? PLease provide the Book chapter and verse

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

But you do realize that this is exactly the same numbering the Catholic Church uses, right?

Attack Luther on this one, and you are attacking the Catholic Church.

Edwin

Oh please…what a ridiculous statement. And no, the Catholic church does not use the same numbering. Bottom line my friend, I realize you and others think Luther was this “Glorious Reformer” who came in and seperated God’s Holy Word, and the church Christ founded, to fit his own ways of thinking. I just can’t believe that people were so gullible back then and still are.

 

[JLSamuel818]

Oh please…what a ridiculous statement. And no, the Catholic church does not use the same numbering. Bottom line my friend, I realize you and others think Luther was this “Glorious Reformer” who came in and seperated God’s Holy Word, and the church Christ founded, to fit his own ways of thinking. I just can’t believe that people were so gullible back then and still are.

I agree and fully second that statement. :compcoff:

 

[gcnuss]

Oh please…what a ridiculous statement. And no, the Catholic church does not use the same numbering. Bottom line my friend, I realize you and others think Luther was this “Glorious Reformer” who came in and seperated God’s Holy Word, and the church Christ founded, to fit his own ways of thinking. I just can’t believe that people were so gullible back then and still are.

OneTrueCathApos,

I’ll grant you that the Catholic Church does not use the same numbering as the Lutheran Church. However, the Lutheran Church uses the same numbering as the Catholic Church.

From catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403fea3.asp

the Catechism’s traditional presentation of the commandments for memorization are:

1. I am the Lord your God: You shall not have strange Gods before me.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord’s Day.
4. Honor your father and mother.
5. You shall not kill.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

Those are the same ten commandments I learned in my Lutheran confirmation class 50+ years ago and that I teach to our confirmands now. I just don’t understand your insistence that we have a different listing of the commandments.

 

[JLSamuel818]

It’s not just the listing of the Commandments. It’s the fact that people believed Martin Luther was a “Glorious Reformer”.

 

[cascherman]

It’s not just the listing of the Commandments. It’s the fact that people believed Martin Luther was a “Glorious Reformer”.

well it just so happens that this thread is about the numbering of the 10 commandments.

Maybe time to close it down then, if the discussion is over, and it looks like it is. It was pointless from the beginning.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Another whacked, bigoted (and untrue!) post from OneTrueCathApos, the Jack Chick of CAF.

 

[cascherman]

Another whacked, bigoted (and untrue!) post from OneTrueCathApos, the Jack Chick of CAF.

Hey good to know non-Catholics know Jack Chick is a loon.

 

[Contarini]

Oh please…what a ridiculous statement. And no, the Catholic church does not use the same numbering.

What is the second commandment in the Catholic numbering? Please correct this ignorant heretic.

Bottom line my friend, I realize you and others think Luther was this “Glorious Reformer”

You don’t “realize” anything of the kind. You think it, because you can’t be bothered to perform the simple act of asking Protestants what they think about Luther.

I for one think Luther was a brilliant but intemperate theologian who did some good and a lot of harm to the Church. Many of his theological insights were valuable and could have contributed to the synthesis of Catholic doctrine had he not identified them arrogantly with the Gospel. (And the Church’s reaction to him wasn’t perfect either, as most Catholics will admit.)

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

It’s not just the listing of the Commandments. It’s the fact that people believed Martin Luther was a “Glorious Reformer”.

Then why entitle the post “Martin Luther and the Ten Commandments”?

Are you saying that because some misguided people engage in excessive adulation of Luther, he can legitimately be criticized for anything whatever he said or did, even if it’s something on which he was fully in agreement with Catholicism?

That’s the only logical sense I can make of your post–and frankly it doesn’t make much sense!

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Hey good to know non-Catholics know Jack Chick is a loon.

Well, of course.

Why would you ever have doubted it?

Edwin