Martin Luther invented un-biblical doctrines.

[Ginger2]

A catholic in another thread stated that Martin Luther invented un-biblical doctrines. I asked for an example and Martin777 came back with this reply:

Martin777:

I fear you are in denial, my good friend. The fastest growing churches in the world are virtually all the result of the Reformation, which Luther helped begin. But don’t live in the past. Tell me of the day you were born again into Jesus through his Holy Spirit. By the way, according to John in his epistle (I John), that Holy Spirit guides us into truth so that we don’t need anyone else to interpret! Read it and tell me what John is saying.

This makes no sense to me as I was not defending Luther, simply asking for a specific example to back up the accusation.

Instead, I get more accusations about Luther. followed by criticism for not answering off-topic questions.

So I have started this thread to answer those questions.

This thread is all about ME!!! And what I think 1 John means. lol

Stay tuned in. Tomorrow I will tell you about my “born again” experience.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Why would you expose Martin777 and try to stir up trouble? This is an unfit title for a posting.

 

[Ginger2]

Why would you expose Martin777 and try to stir up trouble? This is an unfit title for a posting.

Expose him for what???

You sound as tho he did something wrong.

His questions were simply off-topic. And did not have anything to do with the question he quoted from me.

When I pointed this out, he criticized me for not answering his questions, so I started a new thread to answer them. - Thus, avoiding complaints of me derailing the other thread.

This thread is all about answering those 2 specific questions?

If Martin777 didn’t want an answer, he shouldn’t have asked AND certainly shouldn’t have chastised me for not responding to off-topic questions.

On the other hand, if he sincerely is interested in my Christian journey and personal opinion on 1 John. we now have a thread where we can discuss - ME!

So why are you in this thread??? Surely you’re not trying to start trouble, are you?

Lighten up OTCA, the first post is just to let people know why I started a thread about me, as most people are not interested in learning about Ginger2, but Christ!

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Expose him for what???

You sound as tho he did something wrong.

His questions were simply off-topic. And did not have anything to do with the question he quoted from me.

When I pointed this out, he criticized me for not answering his questions, so I started a new thread to answer them. - Thus, avoiding complaints of me derailing the other thread.

This thread is all about answering those 2 specific questions?

If Martin777 didn’t want an answer, he shouldn’t have asked AND certainly shouldn’t have chastised me for not responding to off-topic questions.

On the other hand, if he sincerely is interested in my Christian journey and personal opinion on 1 John. we now have a thread where we can discuss - ME!

So why are you in this thread??? Surely you’re not trying to start trouble, are you?

Lighten up OTCA, the first post is just to let people know why I started a thread about me, as most people are not interested in learning about Ginger2, but Christ!

How arrogant…

 

[Ruthie]

Hi, Ginger.

OTCA can be a bit snippy at times. I don’t think he understands that you were trying to get Martin777’s attention, rather than spreading scandal about him.

I’m betting OTCA is also concerned about your statement, “It’s all about ME!”

If I didn’t think you were being funny, I’d be concerned, too.

Looking forward to your testimony,

Ruthie

 

[Ginger2]

I’m betting OTCA is also concerned about your statement, “It’s all about ME!”

If I didn’t think you were being funny, I’d be concerned, too.

Ruthie

I should have placed a smiley by that comment.

 

[Ginger2]

Here goes…

I was born into a Catholic family and altho I completed all my Catholic instruction, in retrospect I think I left the catholic church my first year of catechism.

My parents of course continued to send me to church so I didn’t physically leave until I was a legal adult.

The reason was because the nuns couldn’t or wouldn’t answer my questions. They just said that’s the way it is.

Even after leaving I continued to read my Catholic Bible daily. (I didn’t know Catholic and Protestant Bibles were different)

I came from a messed up home, so my life was always a mess.

One day in 1992, I hit the floor on my knees. I prayed, “I don’t want this freewill thing anymore. All I do is mess things up. I want you to take control of my life.”

I meant that with all my heart, but God never takes away our freewill.

I got up off the floor and went about my messed-up, sinful life as usual. I didn’t know what else to do - I didn’t know how to change my life.

But, as I look back, I can see how God took control and begin to change my life for me - despite my freewill to make bad choices.

 

[Ginger2]

I’m not sure why I was asked to give commentary on 1 John, but this came out of a thread that stated Protestants don’t answer questions.

1 John 1
The Word of Life

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— 2 the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— 3 that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And we are writing these things so that our [1] joy may be complete.
Walking in the Light

The above verses are speaking of Christ Jesus. It is very similar to the 1st chapter in the Gospel John. The author is pointing out that he is a first hand witness to the life that is Christ Jesus. His purpose is to share this revelation (v. 3 ) so the readers can share in the same fellowship they share with God and joy may be complete.

5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. Verse 5 clarifies their message (the Apostles) comes from God and is not their personal opinion. Then he proceeds to describes God’s perfection and holiness in terms of light and darkness and how Jesus’ death on the cross brings us salvation.
8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

These verses, like so many others, stress the fact that we are all sinners in need of a Savior. If we deny this fact we deceive ourselves.

But the good news is that when we confess our sins and admit they we are not perfect, We have a God who is merciful and quick to forgive us.

Experiencing God’s forgiveness is one of the greatest things that a person can experience. It truly is like a heavy load being lifted away.

 

[Ginger2]

Personal questions continue and I have decided to refer people to this thread for all questions concerning me that are off topic to whatever thread they are asked in.

I am thrilled to discover I am such an interesting person!!! I used to think I was very common and boring. It’s nice to have people take an interest in my life.

 

[Ginger2]

Next question went like this:

OneTrueCathApos: Have you ever gone to confession with a Catholic priest? Simple yes or no will suffice.

Ginger: Yes

OneTrueCathApos: How could that be? You cannot take the Eucharist as you are Protestant and I can’t believe you. Sorry.

Ginger: lol…You asked for a “simple yes or no”. I was raised Catholic.

OneTrueCathApos: A simple yes or no, not a lie… :nope: :tsktsk:

This was followed by several other Catholics begging me in the name of Jesus to “tell the truth whether or not * was raised Catholic”

In the name of Jesus Christ, I was raised Roman Catholic.*

 

[Ginger2]

A question for Ginger …

Why *have you come to CAF? Is it to share and learn? Is it to debate respectfully with Catholics? (which so far has not been evident)

Is it to teach us about our Catholic faith which you feel we do not know or understand?

or do you have another Agenda?

Please, be honest, give a straightforward and truthful answer. Remember the Lord sees your heart and knows the truth regarding your intentions.

*

Mostly I spend time in CAF to improve on my ability to defend Why I believe, what I believe.

I don’t expect anyone to change what they believe as only God can bring about that type of change. I witness my faith and how ever God uses that is up to Him.

But I have learned a lot in this forum and that is a good thing.

As a matter of fact, I believe it is this forum that caused me to change my opinion on one specific issue. However, I don’t recall exactly what that was.

I am open to the Holy Spirit to reveal new things to me and willing to stand corrected when God reveals something I had not yet been shown. But I don’t just jump to believe something because someone says it and it sounds reasonable. The "proof " must be consistent with the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Eucharisted]

Ginger,

Catholic.com - astonishingly enough, the site this forum is hitched onto - has some tracts that’ll help you learn the Faith and defend Catholicism. There are a lot of tracts, but it’s good reading

Faith Tracts

 

[Ginger2]

Ginger,

Catholic.com - astonishingly enough, the site this forum is hitched onto - has some tracts that’ll help you learn the Faith and defend Catholicism. There are a lot of tracts, but it’s good reading

Faith Tracts

Thank you. That was a very kind gesture.

 

[guanophore]

A catholic in another thread stated that Martin Luther invented un-biblical doctrines. I asked for an example and Martin777 came back with this reply:

This makes no sense to me as I was not defending Luther, simply asking for a specific example to back up the accusation.

Instead, I get more accusations about Luther. followed by criticism for not answering off-topic questions.

So I have started this thread to answer those questions.

This thread is all about ME!!! And what I think 1 John means. lol

Stay tuned in. Tomorrow I will tell you about my “born again” experience.

I think you chose a bad title for your thread, Ginger2, because you say it is about you, and someone else’s name is up there, and furthermre he was banned, so I think we are not supposed to hold discussion regarding him.

You are right to ask about the unbiblical doctrines of Martin Luther, though. The most damaging may be Sola Scriptura, a doctrine he invented to use as a rationale for rebelling against the authority appointed by Christ.

Mostly I spend time in CAF to improve on my ability to defend Why I believe, what I believe.

With all due respect, Ginger2, this is not the purpose of CAF. CAF is here to answer genuine questions about the Catholic faith. It is not a venue to spread your non-Catholic religion and your rationale for abandoning the Church Jesus founded. Have you considered opening your own forum, or joining with others who do not want to be Catholic to create an appropriate environment for your “time spending”?

I don’t expect anyone to change what they believe as only God can bring about that type of change. I witness my faith and how ever God uses that is up to Him.[/qutoe]

It seems like bearing witness might be more appropriate elsewhere. If you are not interested in getting Catholic answers, then what is the point of being here? CAF is not provided as an evangelistic opportunity for you.
Ginger2;4574869:

But I have learned a lot in this forum and that is a good thing.

As a matter of fact, I believe it is this forum that caused me to change my opinion on one specific issue. However, I don’t recall exactly what that was.

LOL. Well, I hope that’s good. Didn’t seem to make a real big impression.

I am open to the Holy Spirit to reveal new things to me and willing to stand corrected when God reveals something I had not yet been shown.

I guess there is hope, then.

But I don’t just jump to believe something because someone says it and it sounds reasonable. The "proof " must be consistent with the Holy Scriptures.

Sorry, but the Scriptures are not “proof”. They are faith statements. If you are not willing to receive what the Church teaches in faith, then there is not much help for you here. The Catholic Church produced the Scriptures, and that is why there is no contradiction between what is in them, and what is taught by the Church.

 

[Ginger2]

I think you chose a bad title for your thread, Ginger2, because you say it is about you, and someone else’s name is up there, and furthermre he was banned, so I think we are not supposed to hold discussion regarding him.

I didn’t know I would continue posting here when I started it. The title was to make it easy for him to find and he wasn’t ban when I started this.

And I don’t know how to change the title.

Most pointless questions I am asked are ask repeatedly, so eventually I will simply refer people here and not get caught up in repeatedly answering the same questions over and over again only to start the whole process in the next thread.

You are right to ask about the unbiblical doctrines of Martin Luther, though. The most damaging may be Sola Scriptura, a doctrine he invented to use as a rationale for rebelling against the authority appointed by Christ.
guanophore;4575067:

… CAF is here to answer genuine questions about the Catholic faith…

Then Catholics should not start threads like this: “Protestants, Why…”

I don’t expect anyone to change what they believe as only God can bring about that type of change. I witness my faith and how ever God uses that is up to Him.[/qutoe]
guanophore;4575067:

If you are not interested in getting Catholic answers, then what is the point of being here? CAF is not provided as an evangelistic opportunity for you.

But I am interested in Catholic answers.

I’m not evangelizing. I don’t believe in online evangelism.

This thread is actually to avoid having to waste time talking about me. I’m here to talk about God and learn.

I am not Catholic, that doesn’t mean I can’t learn from Catholics.

 

[guanophore]

I didn’t know I would continue posting here when I started it. The title was to make it easy for him to find and he wasn’t ban when I started this.

OIC. Yes. Well, it is better to send someone the thread link, or a PM telling them where to find it.

And I don’t know how to change the title.

I dropped the mods a note, and asked them if they could change the title. We re not allowed to discuss moderator actions, and now that he is banned it is probably poor form to have his name on the thread.

Most pointless questions I am asked are ask repeatedly, so eventually I will simply refer people here and not get caught up in repeatedly answering the same questions over and over again only to start the whole process in the next thread.

You might want to ask yourself why that happens.

There is probably a good reason, and so far, none of the questions put to you seem at all pointless. Your readers have difficulty reconciling the jumble of information that is Ginger2.

Then Catholics should not start threads like this: “Protestants, Why…”

If all the Protestants get banned, then I will agree with you.

I don’t expect anyone to change what they believe as only God can bring about that type of change. I witness my faith and how ever God uses that is up to Him.

Don’t you consider “witnessing for faith” part of evangelism?

But I am interested in Catholic answers.

At times, I must confess, you do appear to be, although for what reason I have not yet been able to fathom.

I’m not evangelizing. I don’t believe in online evangelism.

Then why do you need to “witness for your faith”?

This thread is actually to avoid having to waste time talking about me. I’m here to talk about God and learn.

we now have a thread where we can discuss  - ME!

Who could ever tell?

I started a thread about me, as most people are not interested in learning about Ginger2, but Christ!

You see? Such statements are very confusing to your readers. When people ask you to clarify, it may be because you are contradicting yourself, or they can’t make any sense out of what you have written.

I am not Catholic, that doesn’t mean I can’t learn from Catholics.

This is true, but if you are here primarily bear “witness” to your non-Catholic faith, it stands to reason you will learn very little

 

[Ginger2]

OIC. Yes. Well, it is better to send someone the thread link, or a PM telling them where to find it.

I did.

You might want to ask yourself why that happens.

There is probably a good reason, and so far, none of the questions put to you seem at all pointless. Your readers have difficulty reconciling the jumble of information that is Ginger2.

I know why it happens.

Don’t you consider “witnessing for faith” part of evangelism?

Anytime we speak of God we are witnessing - that’s a given. I cannot talk about God anymore than you without my words bearing witness to or against our Heavenly Father.

When a thread asks a Protestant to explain why we believe what we believe, are these threads set up so we can reason and share with each other?

Or are they set up as a means to bash Protestants. If you’re not want us to share our faith, why ask?

Why even allow Protestants in?

At times, I must confess, you do appear to be, although for what reason I have not yet been able to fathom.

For greater understanding. Altho we do not agree on all doctrines within the RC, we share the same Christian doctrines that the foundation of our faith.

Then why do you need to “witness for your faith”?

As I said, we cannot discuss God without bearing witness. And we are commanded to share our faith in God - it’s part of our faith.

Who could ever tell?

I’m being sarcastic. I will refer people here for their off topic questions about me.

You see? Such statements are very confusing to your readers. When people ask you to clarify, it may be because you are contradicting yourself, or they can’t make any sense out of what you have written.

No one here really wants to talk about me. By starting this thread, they won’t be subjected to the typical disputes about whether or not I am Catholic or why I’m not answering the question, or my silence is proof enough.

Maybe that is just wishful thinking.

This is true, but if you are here primarily bear “witness” to your non-Catholic faith, it stands to reason you will learn very little

But I have learned a lot. Do you know I had never even heard of Martin Luther until I was on a Catholic thread! Catholics didn’t teach me why there were other denominations - at least not that I remember.

I have a funny story about Luther…

One Saturday I was headed to the grocery store and my husband said, “See if Luther is there.” I said “Who’s Luther?” He gave me an annoyed look and said, “The Movie.”

How was I supposed to know he was talking about a movie?

 

[guanophore]

In keeping with your intention, I brought this off topic post of yours from another thread.

I am saying that Catholics consistently claim they are completely unified in their theology and Protestants aren’t.

I am saying Catholics suffer the same problems of heretical beliefs trying to squeeze their way into and corrupt the faith just as Protestants.

I think you misunderstood, Ginger2. The Catholic Church herself is unified in her theology. That does not mean that all Catholics understand it or represent it correctly.

Catholics do not suffer the same problems as Protestants, because we have one body of Theology that is defined, and delineates what makes one “Catholic”. persons who do not ascribe to it are not Catholic in faith. Furthermore, being the Church Jesus founded, the Catholic faith has His promise that the gates of hell will not prevail (no error will be taught). Those who have left the Church He founded have left this promise behind.

I am saying that both have members who are in the process of understanding and learning and not everyone has a good understanding simply because of their church affiliation.

This is certainly true, which is another good reason not to judge the faith by those who are deficient in it. This would include the nuns in your childhood who were unable to answer your questions.

I am further stating that when I claim some Catholics can misunderstand what is taught by the Catholic Church, and Catholics come back and claim I am making a statement as to what the entire CC believes,…

It is true that some Catholics misunderstand what the church teaches.

That seems argumentative to me. I did not say the entire CC believes confession is a free pass to sin. Nor did I say the CC teaches that.

I am relieved to hear that.

I said some Catholics can mistakenly believe that.

And a great many other things, as well.

The same “rules” apply to both Catholics and Protestants. We are human. D None of us has all the answers. We share our thoughts, ideas, and understanding with each other. That is good as God often uses us to speak to others.

Well, I don’t know where you are getting your “rule book” or if you are just making it up as you go along, but Catholics don’t have the same "rules’ as Protestants. We have a responsibility to receive the Apostolic faith in the form it was first delivered, and not to change it as we go along. We also are not to veer off into our own private interpretations and revelations when they take us away from the faith of the church that Jesus founded.

Where we fail - on both sides - is assuming we know what the other guy believes because he is not Catholic or Protestant.

I agree that it is counterproductive to engage in prejudice.

Should I assume all Catholics believe in birth control because some reject the RC teaching on this subject? No.

What is most important is differentiating between what the Church teaches, and what the ignorant, rebellious and obstinent reject of it.

But Catholics claim that they have Tradition - the correct interpretation and that Protestants are divided because they don’t have a source for correct interpretation of Scriptures.

I think this would be an accurate summary, yes.

I am saying, if that were true wouldn’t all Catholics then believe the exact same things?

If indeed they were all obedient to the faith as it is taught.

Catholics and Protestants share this problem.

Yes, there are Catholics who are actually, like yourself, protestant in practice and believe, rebelling against the authority appointed by Christ to guide the Church.

 

[guanophore]

I found this interesting post of yours in another thread. I wanted to respond to it, but since I could not see what it had to do with the topic, I did not. Now that you have created this wonderful thread for off topic posts related to Ginger2, my problem is solved!

Except maybe for Luke, I believe the Gospels were probably all written first in Aramaic and then translated to Greek. This is what I was taught as I child. (I was raised Catholic) and what I tend to believe. They were Jews and their first language was Aramaic.

I believe you were taught this in error, Ginger2. not all the Writers of the NT were Jews, Luke being a prime example. Most of the writers of Paul’s letters were Gentiles writing in Gk. The letter to the Hebrews is Jewish. But I think the only gospel for which we have early evidence being ARamaic is Matthews, a gospel that does not bear his name. We know it was written by him from the same source we know it was in Aramaic. It appears what he wrote was used as a model by the synoptic writers. John seems to have written in Greek.

Third, I have my Catholic Bible, St. Joseph Textbook Edition, which states Matthew was written in Aramaic and translated to Greek. Catholics have told me it was written in first in Greek, they have told me (in this forum) it was written first in Aramaic.

I think we are in agreement, are we not, that not every Catholic has the facts straight?

Fourth, I am trying to avoid dispute on the NT as my concern is with the Old Testament. So this is the last time I will discuss it. It’s obvious Catholic will disagree with me no matter what position I take - even when I cite what is written in my Catholic Bible. I’m beginning to think some argue just to argue.

I just wanted to know what this had to do with the topic.

 

[Ginger2]

I just wanted to know what this had to do with the topic.

That is post # 584. The title of the thread is Protestants, can a Catholic Priest forgive sins?

I think it began at post # 414

Hebrews 7:28*For the law appoints men in their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever.

Post #416 said:

1. Have you ever considered …
2. How can you so willingly reject what Catholic scholars (you should read a book about how the bible came to us) have done for 2,000 years? St. Augustine, for example, was a very smart man. I would like to know what makes you think you are as qualified. Catholic scholars have painstakingly copied scripture by hand, and if mistakes were made, the entire copy was thrown out. These were studied and disciplined men. What is our scholarship today compared to theirs?
3. If you feel so firm in your position, …
   Blessings,

Lisa

I did not go through all 500 and sum posts, but I worked backward and this appears to be where it started and snowballed from there.

So what does “a book about how the bible came to us” have o do with priests authority or lack there of to forgive sins?