Martin Luther vs. The Bible

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Martin Luther taught:

Be a sinner, and sin boldly, but believe more boldly still. Sin shall not drag us away from Him, even should we commit fornication or murder thousands and thousands of times a day (Luther, M. Letter of August 1, 1521 as quoted in Stoddard, p.93).

He seemed to overlook what the Book of Hebrews taught:

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries (Hebrews 10:26-27).

The Bible, in Luke 10:28, states,

“And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live” (KJV).

Yet Martin Luther taught,

To do means to believe-to keep the law by faith. The passage in Matthew: Do this and thou shalt live, signifies Believe this and thou shalt live. The words Do this, have ironical sense, as if our Lord should say: Thou wilt do it tomorrow, but not today; only make an attempt to keep the Commandments, and the trial will teach thee the ignominy of thy failure (O’Hare, p.205).

Although Martin Luther stated that he looked upon the Bible “as if God Himself spoke therein” he also stated,

My word is the word of Christ; my mouth is the mouth of Christ" (O’Hare PF. The Facts About Luther, 1916–1987 reprint ed., pp. 203-204).

The Bible, in Romans 3:28, states,

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Martin Luther, in his German translation of the Bible, specifically added the word “allein” (English ‘alone’) to Romans 3:28-a word that is not in the original Greek. Notice what Protestant scholars have admitted:

…Martin Luther would once again emphasize…that we are “justified by faith alone”, apart from the works of the Law" (Rom. 3:28), adding the German word allein (“alone”) in his translation of the Greek text. There is certainly a trace of Marcion in Luther’s move (Brown HOJ. Heresies: Heresy and Orthodoxy in the History of the Church. Hendrickson Publishers, Peabody (MA), 1988, pp. 64-65).

Furthermore, Martin Luther himself reportedly said,

You tell me what a great fuss the Papists are making because the word alone in not in the text of Paul…say right out to him: ‘Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,’…I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word ‘alone’ is not in the Latin or the Greek text (Stoddard J. Rebuilding a Lost Faith. 1922, pp. 101-102; see also Luther M. Amic. Discussion, 1, 127).

cogwriter.com/luther.htm

 

[Contarini]

Luther explicitly taught in his 1535 Galatians commentary that a person who does not resist the works of the flesh and deliberately gives himself/herself to sin will eventually lose faith and (barring repentance) be damned. You are dishonestly (or else ignorantly) picking out one hyperbolic thing Luther said in one letter and ignoring his theology as a whole. Because, as with Calvinism, you know little and care less. You are a disgrace to the Church you claim to defend.

I am not going to engage in further discussion of Luther with you until you have demonstrated some interest in fairness and accuracy. I’m just pointing out that my lack of further participation on this thread is not due to any inability to refute you, but to the fact that you are recycling thoroughly discredited ideas, and one tires of smiting the hydra.

Edwin

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Luther explicitly taught in his 1535 Galatians commentary that a person who does not resist the works of the flesh and deliberately gives himself/herself to sin will eventually lose faith and (barring repentance) be damned. You are dishonestly (or else ignorantly) picking out one hyperbolic thing Luther said in one letter and ignoring his theology as a whole. Because, as with Calvinism, you know little and care less. You are a disgrace to the Church you claim to defend.

I am not going to engage in further discussion of Luther with you until you have demonstrated some interest in fairness and accuracy. I’m just pointing out that my lack of further participation on this thread is not due to any inability to refute you, but to the fact that you are recycling thoroughly discredited ideas, and one tires of smiting the hydra.

Edwin

The quotes provided are clear. You didn’t even provide a single quote from Luther, not that I doubt your statement.

Luther was driven by pride and arrogance and this can be clearly demonstrated from his writings.

He had no problem eliminating books of the bible or changing words if HE deemed it to be correct.

I can provide multiple additional quotes that are accurate and instructive in this regard.

Why does truth annoy you?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

The quotes provided are clear. You didn’t even provide a single quote from Luther, not that I doubt your statement.

Luther was driven by pride and arrogance and this can be clearly demonstrated from his writings.

He had no problem eliminating books of the bible or changing words if HE deemed it to be correct.

I can provide multiple additional quotes that are accurate and instructive in this regard.

Why does truth annoy you?

More Luther quotes:

“Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly for he is victorious over sin, death, and the world. As long as we are here in this world we have to sin. This life is not a dwelling place of righteousness”

“No sin will separate us from the lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day.”

“Whenever the devil harasses you, seek the company of men or drink more, or joke and talk nonsense, or do some other merry thing. Sometimes we must drink more, sport, recreate ourselves, and even sin a little to spite the devil, so that we leave him no place for troubling our consciences with trifles. We are conquered if we try too conscientiously not to sin at all. So when the devil says to you: do not drink, answer him: I will drink, and right freely, just because you tell me not to.”

“The imputation of righteousness we need very much, because we are far from perfect. As long as we have this body, sin will dwell in our flesh. Then, too, we sometimes drive away the holy spirit; we fall into sin, like Peter, David, and other holy men. Nevertheless we may always take recourse to this fact, that our sins are covered, and that God will not lay them to our charge. Sin is not held against us for Christ’s sake.”

 

[Steadfast]

Luther explicitly taught in his 1535 Galatians commentary that a person who does not resist the works of the flesh and deliberately gives himself/herself to sin will eventually lose faith and (barring repentance) be damned. You are dishonestly (or else ignorantly) picking out one hyperbolic thing Luther said in one letter and ignoring his theology as a whole. Because, as with Calvinism, you know little and care less. You are a disgrace to the Church you claim to defend.

I am not going to engage in further discussion of Luther with you until you have demonstrated some interest in fairness and accuracy. I’m just pointing out that my lack of further participation on this thread is not due to any inability to refute you, but to the fact that you are recycling thoroughly discredited ideas, and one tires of smiting the hydra.

Edwin

A glass of wine with you, sir.

 

[Reformed]

The truth of the solas of the Protestant Reformation does not stand or fall on what Martin Luther believed.

 

[sandusky]

Martin Luther taught:

Be a sinner, and sin boldly, but believe more boldly still. Sin shall not drag us away from Him, even should we commit fornication or murder thousands and thousands of times a day (Luther, M. Letter of August 1, 1521 as quoted in Stoddard, p.93).

He seemed to overlook what the Book of Hebrews taught:

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries (Hebrews 10:26-27).

The Bible, in Luke 10:28, states,

“And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live” (KJV).

Yet Martin Luther taught,

To do means to believe-to keep the law by faith. The passage in Matthew: Do this and thou shalt live, signifies Believe this and thou shalt live. The words Do this, have ironical sense, as if our Lord should say: Thou wilt do it tomorrow, but not today; only make an attempt to keep the Commandments, and the trial will teach thee the ignominy of thy failure (O’Hare, p.205).

Although Martin Luther stated that he looked upon the Bible “as if God Himself spoke therein” he also stated,

My word is the word of Christ; my mouth is the mouth of Christ" (O’Hare PF. The Facts About Luther, 1916–1987 reprint ed., pp. 203-204).

The Bible, in Romans 3:28, states,

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Martin Luther, in his German translation of the Bible, specifically added the word “allein” (English ‘alone’) to Romans 3:28-a word that is not in the original Greek. Notice what Protestant scholars have admitted:

…Martin Luther would once again emphasize…that we are “justified by faith alone”, apart from the works of the Law" (Rom. 3:28), adding the German word allein (“alone”) in his translation of the Greek text. There is certainly a trace of Marcion in Luther’s move (Brown HOJ. Heresies: Heresy and Orthodoxy in the History of the Church. Hendrickson Publishers, Peabody (MA), 1988, pp. 64-65).

Furthermore, Martin Luther himself reportedly said,

You tell me what a great fuss the Papists are making because the word alone in not in the text of Paul…say right out to him: ‘Dr. Martin Luther will have it so,’…I will have it so, and I order it to be so, and my will is reason enough. I know very well that the word ‘alone’ is not in the Latin or the Greek text (Stoddard J. Rebuilding a Lost Faith. 1922, pp. 101-102; see also Luther M. Amic. Discussion, 1, 127).

cogwriter.com/luther.htm

Out of context, and myopic.

 

[Publisher]

One thing I find disheartening on this forum, is Catholics tend to pull quotes from Reformers out of context…yet if a Protestant quotes a ECF or a Catholic the retort is “out of context” or “one is looking at the whole”.

While I have no real stake in this discussion…I would like to see us speak from that Divine Center, which does not give sway to any falsehood. We do one another violence…and violence to ourselves when we do not speak out of Truth.

 

[Peter_J]

One thing I find disheartening on this forum, is Catholics tend to pull quotes from Reformers out of context…yet if a Protestant quotes a ECF or a Catholic the retort is “out of context” or “one is looking at the whole”.

While I have no real stake in this discussion…I would like to see us speak from that Divine Center, which does not give sway to any falsehood. We do one another violence…and violence to ourselves when we do not speak out of Truth.

I agree.

 

[Pwrlftr]

The quotes provided are clear. You didn’t even provide a single quote from Luther, not that I doubt your statement.

Luther was driven by pride and arrogance and this can be clearly demonstrated from his writings.

He had no problem eliminating books of the bible or changing words if HE deemed it to be correct.

I can provide multiple additional quotes that are accurate and instructive in this regard.

Why does truth annoy you?

a.) Luther was not the only one and not the first to translate the verse in Romans with alone. Faithful Catholics before him had already done the same thing.

b.) Why not cry out against Cardinal Cajetan or Ximenes for their rejection of books of the bible too?

 

[JonNC]

Martin Luther taught:

Be a sinner, and sin boldly, but believe more boldly still. Sin shall not drag us away from Him, even should we commit fornication or murder thousands and thousands of times a day (Luther, M. Letter of August 1, 1521 as quoted in Stoddard, p.93).

I will stick to this one correction. Luther did not teach this, as you have asserted. He wrote it in a letter to a friend, Melanchton, who was as quiet as Luther was fiery. He never expected his friend to go out and do these things (to think one could is idiotic). He was comparing the power of Christ mercy and atonement to our sunful nature.

He was not teaching, he was writing to a friend about how wonderful God’s love is. I, for one, am moved by this every time I read it, because I know that Christ can overcome even my sin, great and onerous though it is.
Jon

 

[JonNC]

Oh, and BTW, here is something Luther did teach, in his Small Catechism:

The Eighth Commandment.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

What does this mean?–Answer.

We should fear and love God that we may not deceitfully belie, betray, slander, or defame our neighbor, but defend him, [think and] speak well of him, and put the best construction on everything.

Two questions (rhetorical) for the OP.

1. Is this a good teaching, or should it be rejected because Luther said it?
2. Does the intent of your thread live up to it, or is it irrelevant because Luther said it?

 

[Peter_J]

He was not teaching,

Hmm, sounds a lot like what we Catholics are always explaining to people about Pope Honorius.

 

[Scientiphic]

If a person had so much faith, would he even sin?

Its like if I know for sure that I’m going to die tomorrow, do you think I will be slogging in my work or talking about my burial?

That’s why the Bible says FAITH HAS WORKS.

No one who claims to believe in Christ will continue to sin. Because this world will become an illusion, the world after THE REALITY.

Once your mind is constantly on God, and this world becomes a wasting away for you, do you even think you will lust for ANYTHING in this world???

NO!..YOU AUTOMATICALLY STOP SINNING!

The reason most people continue to sin is because their faith is vain, they say they believe but they really don’t. They would rather enjoy this life, get lots of money, engage in revelry, wine & women and then attend church and call themselves church go-ers or even church leaders and then literally cross their fingers and hope there’s a God waiting for them to enter Heaven.

God says ‘Be not deceived. God is not mocked. For whatever a man sows, that shall he reap’. :hammering:

“Not all who calls me Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom, save he who does the will of the Father”
.

 

[sola_scriptura]

I guess if we want a fair analysis of Luther it might help understanding what he meant by his statements.

“There are commandments and teachings of the pope which say nothing at all about faith in Christ, as the Gospel does, but merely about obedience to him in bodily, trivial, trifling matters, such as the eating of meat, observing festivals, fasting, dressing, etc. Yet the pope has emphasized and extolled these far more than God’s Word, and they are feared and followed far more, have more thoroughly terrified and captivated consciences, and have made hell far hotter than did both God’s Law and His Gospel. For they have given little regard to unbelief, blasphemy, adultery, murder, theft, and whatever else is opposed to Christ and His command; for these sins penance was quickly done and forgiveness given. But when someone touched one of the pope’s commandments, the bulls had to come with lightning and thunder. This was called damned disobedience and brought a man under the ban of the pope. Now heaven and earth had to tremble in terror. But when sins against God were concerned, sins in which they themselves are drowned, not a leaf stirred. On the contrary, they mocked and laughed at the matter in great security, as they do to this day. Besides this, they persecute and murder in a cruel manner all who esteem God’s commandment above the commandment of their abomination. The pope wants God and His Word under him; he wants himself enthroned above them. This is his regime and nature. Without these he could not be the Antichrist.” (What Luther Says, 3:1304; see ntrmin.org/Be%20a%20sinner%20and%20sin%20boldly%20web.htm#a1)).

Obviously Luther had harsh words for the Catholic Church, however, as we see Luther himself did not believe sin was delightful to God (indeed he defined sin as enumerated by scripture as “opposed to Christ”). Here’s more insight into his logic:

“Therefore let us arm our hearts with these and similar statements of Scripture so that, when the devil accuses us by saying: You are a sinner; therefore you are damned, we can reply: The very fact that you say I am a sinner makes me want to be just and saved. Nay, you will be damned, says the devil. Indeed not, I reply, for I take refuge in Christ, who gave Himself for my sins. Therefore you will accomplish nothing, Satan, by trying to frighten me by setting the greatness of my sins before me and thus seducing me to sadness, doubt, despair, hatred, contempt, and blasphemy of God. Indeed, by calling me a sinner you are supplying me with weapons against yourself so that I can slay and destroy you with your own sword; for Christ died for sinners. Furthermore, you yourself proclaim the glory of God to me; you remind me of God’s paternal love for me, a miserable and lost sinner; for He so loved the world that He gave His Son (John 3:16). Again, whenever you throw up to me that I am a sinner, you revive in my memory the blessing of Christ, my Redeemer, on whose shoulders, and not on mine, lie all my sins; for “the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all” and “for the transgression of His people was He stricken” (Is. 53:6-8). Therefore when you throw up to me that I am a sinner, you are not terrifying me; you are comforting me beyond measure.” (What Luther Says 3:1315).

Luther understands that guilt for sin is a way the devil draws us away from God. By deceiving us into believing that sin can separate us from the love of God the devils work is done. The fact is we are all sinners, nothing we can do can change that reality. Only God can transform us, we cannot transform ourselves.

The strong hyperbolic comparison Luther makes between “sinning boldly” and believing and rejoicing in Christ “even more boldly” comes clear. When assaulted by the fear and doubt of Christ’s love because of previous sins or the remnants of sin in one’s life, one is thrust back into the arms of Christ “on whose shoulders, and not on mine, lie all my sins…”. Rather than promoting a license to sin by saying “sin boldly,” Luther’s point is to simply compare the sinner to the perfect savior. Left in our sins we will face nothing but death and damnation. By Christ’s victory over sin, death, and the world, we stand clothed in His righteousness, the recipients of His grace, no matter what we have done. (ntrmin.org/Be%20a%20sinner%20and%20sin%20boldly%20web.htm#a1)).

For Luther, the remnants of sin were not a license to “sin boldly”. Commenting on Romans 7:17, the sins that remain in a believer’s life are there to be fought:

“Sin remains in the spiritual man for the exercise of grace, the humbling of pride, and the repression of presumption. For he who is not busily at work driving out sin without a doubt has sin by the very fact of this neglect, even though he has committed no further sin for which he may be damned. For we are not called to idleness; we are called to labor against our passions. These would not be without guilt—for they are truly sins, indeed damnable ones — if the mercy of God did not forego imputing them to us. But He does not impute them to those only who manfully undertake the struggle with their failings and, calling upon the grace of God, fight it through. Therefore he who goes to confession should not fancy that he is laying down burdens in order to live a life of ease. On the contrary, he should know that by laying down the burden he is undertaking to serve as a soldier of God and is taking a different burden upon himself, the burden of battling for God against the devil and his own failings. The man who does not know this will suffer a quick relapse. Therefore he who does not intend henceforth to fight—why does he ask to be absolved and to be enrolled in the army of Christ?” (What Luther Says, 3:1319).

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

QUOTE]

Good effort!

Luther denied that a man’s sins could lead him to Hell.

Who would like this dogma propagated?

 

[sola_scriptura]

sola_scriptura;4317780:

QUOTE]

Good effort!

Luther denied that a man’s sins could lead him to Hell.

Who would like this dogma propagated?

Respectfully – I really don’t care what you choose to believe. Martin Luther’s was truly one of the finest theologians in Christian history. Obviously Catholics hate him, what can I say?

The truth hurts I guess

 

[Peter_J]

Once your mind is constantly on God, and this world becomes a wasting away for you, do you even think you will lust for ANYTHING in this world???

NO!..YOU AUTOMATICALLY STOP SINNING!

The reason most people continue to sin is because their faith is vain, they say they believe but they really don’t.

What denomination do you belong to?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

CHESTERTONRULES;4317988:

Respectfully – I really don’t care what you choose to believe. Martin Luther’s was truly one of the finest theologians in Christian history. Obviously Catholics hate him, what can I say?

The truth hurts I guess

It’s not hate, is is recognition that he taught contra biblical doctrines.

You don’t care because your disain for the Church is more important to you than your love of the truth.

 

[Steadfast]

sola_scriptura;4317780:

QUOTE]

Good effort!

Luther denied that a man’s sins could lead him to Hell.

Who would like this dogma propagated?

Again you persist with the hateful Catholic spin doctoring. But this is what we have come to expect from you. Having shown yourself a spiteful child when it comes to Calvinism you turn your biased attention to Luther.

Here is what Luther really believed:

Luther believed that the sacrifice of Christ for sinners was far greater than all their sins, so much so that even the worst sinner need fear nothing if he be in Christ.

In short, Luther believed that we have a real Savior Who really saves us from real sins without any help from us.

What is unbiblical about this?

See Romans 8,

I won’t address the issue of context wrt his letter to Melachthon because others (Edwin and Peter most notably) have already said everything that needs to be said.