Martin Luther

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I am currently studying Martin Luther for a history class that covers the Reformation. I just finished reading Young Man Luther by Eric Erickson and am now reading Here I Stand by Roland Bainton. I would like to hear from Catholics and non Catholics alike as to what they make of the monk from Wittenberg who brought the Catholic Church to its knees with the power of his pen, aided by the printing press of course. I am Catholic myself and remain a Catholic, but what your opinions of this man who made such an impact on history?
 
I think that Luther was a well meaning man of faith, but he greatly feared hell, so much so that he ended up, slowly at first, modifying the teachings of the Church to suit himself and make himself more comfortable. In the end, he deceived himself and many others.
And I must stress, that even at the end of his life, I believe he was a man of faith and a true follower of Christ, however deeply in error he may have been.
 
There is that old cliche that “if you have a union, you deserve a union”. The Papal authority at the time of Luther “needed a union”, and Luther gave it to them. I honestly think his heart was in the right place and some years back I found his 99 treasties on the web and upon reading them, I concluded that he meant to move the pendulum back to center.
However, his “rock star status” overcame his good intentions and although he still believed in the Eucharist as the Body and Blood of Jesus, the associates who gathered around him and supported and defended him eventually corrputed him. I do not think he ever intended to create a schism from the faith, I think that he lost control of what could have been a very good “reform movement” for the faith, and the end result was heresy.
That being said, there is one moment in his biography which still has me questioning his good intent. During his very first Mass as a Catholic priest, with his family and friends in attendance, he could not complete the consecration. He actually put down the host, unconsecrated and left the alter. He questioned his ability, as a priest, to call down Jesus from Heaven and consecrate the host. It took some time to bring him back out to finish the Mass. Was that the moment of lost faith? Was that the moment that defined his true belief, which was no belief? I don’t know.
Here is the biggest point of concern that I have with Father Martin Luther. With full knowledge of his error he added the word “alone” in the German translation, “saved by faith alone”, which led in turn to Sola Scriptura, which led in turn to generations being led to 1/2 truths and missed sacraments, which to this day still holds sway over the truth as taught by Jesus and His apostles. I hope that upon his death, He returned to and accepted Jesus as His salvation and forgiveness.
 
There is that old cliche that “if you have a union, you deserve a union”. The Papal authority at the time of Luther “needed a union”, and Luther gave it to them. I honestly think his heart was in the right place and some years back I found his 99 treasties on the web and upon reading them, I concluded that he meant to move the pendulum back to center.
However, his “rock star status” overcame his good intentions and although he still believed in the Eucharist as the Body and Blood of Jesus, the associates who gathered around him and supported and defended him eventually corrputed him. I do not think he ever intended to create a schism from the faith, I think that he lost control of what could have been a very good “reform movement” for the faith, and the end result was heresy.
That being said, there is one moment in his biography which still has me questioning his good intent. During his very first Mass as a Catholic priest, with his family and friends in attendance, he could not complete the consecration. He actually put down the host, unconsecrated and left the alter. He questioned his ability, as a priest, to call down Jesus from Heaven and consecrate the host. It took some time to bring him back out to finish the Mass. Was that the moment of lost faith? Was that the moment that defined his true belief, which was no belief? I don’t know.
Here is the biggest point of concern that I have with Father Martin Luther. With full knowledge of his error he added the word “alone” in the German translation, “saved by faith alone”, which led in turn to Sola Scriptura, which led in turn to generations being led to 1/2 truths and missed sacraments, which to this day still holds sway over the truth as taught by Jesus and His apostles. I hope that upon his death, He returned to and accepted Jesus as His salvation and forgiveness.
I have been studying Martin Luther by reading biographies, and have come to some conclusions so far. I think Luther was sincere, but his beliefs were so extreme and divisive that I think there was something wrong with him. Either he had psychological problems or there was some kind of demonic influence, something led him to be so passionate for division and against the unity of Christianity. I do think he knew what he was doing, he saw the Church come apart in his own life time and he did nothing to stop it. He had no problem saying that the Church had been wrong for 1,000 years until he came along.
 
From what I have studied regarding Martin Luther, I cannot understand him apart from the context of the (arguably abusive) family that raised him. While it is impossible to say with certainty what his motives were, I think that some of the seeds of his fury at the Church later on were planted years before when he was beaten at home. A look at Luther’s correspondence with Erasmus reveals the harshness of Luther’s personality. And although there was a lot of mudslinging going on from many people, Luther’s harsh pen cannot be simply written off as mere German stubbornness. While there were things to be angry about, I cannot find a way to rectify good zeal for Christ with Luther’s increasingly violent position on the Peasants War. So many people died due at least in part to Luther’s urgings, and they did not have to die!

Though I liked his Little Catechism and admired his persistence, I think Luther’s passion negatively influenced his ability to show compassion for all of God’s people, saints and sinners alike.

Just think if Martin Luther King, Jr. would have directly advocated the slaughter of thousands of people for the sake of the Civil Rights Movement, would he really be that great of a person? It was in MLK Jr.'s resistance to violence that his strength of character became evident, and that is what greatly separates the two to me. Pax!
 
How can any of us step into his mind now at this point?

I read that he re-named a person in history. I had no idea he had that kind of power.:o
 
Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Luther join the monastery in order to escape his violent home environment?

I know there is a chasm of history and culture in between Luther and us, but I think he had some serious issues, not all of which were purely theological.
 
Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t Luther join the monastery in order to escape his violent home environment?

I know there is a chasm of history and culture in between Luther and us, but I think he had some serious issues, not all of which were purely theological.
This is a bad objection to his vocation.

Many priests did that then, and did for many a year after. I am sure they could now.
 
I am currently studying Martin Luther for a history class that covers the Reformation. I just finished reading Young Man Luther by Eric Erickson and am now reading Here I Stand by Roland Bainton. I would like to hear from Catholics and non Catholics alike as to what they make of the monk from Wittenberg who brought the Catholic Church to its knees with the power of his pen, aided by the printing press of course. I am Catholic myself and remain a Catholic, but what your opinions of this man who made such an impact on history?
Well for a start he did NOT bring the Catholic Church to its knees.
Secondly, Luther was a coward. Seeing corrupt practices by some bishops and priests his faith was not strong enough to trust in God for him to stay and help change things. He ran away.
Third he was so arrogant that once he left the Church he decided he was the only one on earth would could interpret scripture.
Then he decided to chop out some books of the Old Testament and New Testament because they contradicted what he preached.
In short I have no respect for Luther, a man whose impact on history was to endanger the immortal souls of many by deceiving them into following his ways.
 
I am currently studying Martin Luther for a history class that covers the Reformation. I just finished reading Young Man Luther by Eric Erickson and am now reading Here I Stand by Roland Bainton. I would like to hear from Catholics and non Catholics alike as to what they make of the monk from Wittenberg who brought the Catholic Church to its knees with the power of his pen, aided by the printing press of course. I am Catholic myself and remain a Catholic, but what your opinions of this man who made such an impact on history?
This is all purely personal opinion but I think that as others have said Luther suffered from guilt, that he found hard to abolish. Also, I think that when he started out his intentions were good, and had things played out differently he could be remembered in a totally different light. All of that being said, I think that things got away from him.

I believe what started as a genuine effort to reform the corrupt bishops, and pardoners of his region of Germany was latched upon by members of the middle and upper class who wished to no longer be bound by the laws of Rome on issues of economy and politics. These individuals goaded him forward and also protected him, thereby making him beholden to them. This was seen as truculence by Rome who then condemned him. Pride kicked in at that point and suddenly no one was willing budge.

All in all I think the story of Luther is tragic for him and the Church. But again that is just my view.
 
Luther was not quite the hero history has made him out to be.
He was anti-Semitic…please read his work “On Jews and Their Lies” and hear it from him directly.
He was not the freedom speaker people make him out to be, he wanted to take books away from Jews.
He urged the death of 100,000 people during the peasant uprisings.
He was distrustful of Jews and much of the Old Testament…he called Moses a heretic and said he was as evil as the devil.
In his personal writings, he claimed the devil visited him 100 times a day and laughed at him for breaking up the body of Christ.
This is just the tip of the ice burg…the things he says about Jews would shock you. No surprise, Hitler later cited him as his greatest singular inspiration.
He did not make the bible widely available as many claim…the Catholic Church did. By the time Luther was born, the bible had a handful of translations in German already….by the time he broke away there were hundreds – all carefully provided by the Church. The printing press was invented by a Catholic named Gutenberg and the first bible every printed was a Catholic bible (Latin Vulgate).

I think he was probably very mentally ill (he was abused heavily by his father…his when he was a priest, the other brothers were fearful he might harm himself )….and if you read his writings, you will wonder how he got anyone to follow him. It was a perfect storm…there was corruption in the Church (though it was already getting fixed from within by the time Luther broke away). Also, people liked the message of being able to sin all they want and still be saved. Unfortunately, this led to a sharp moral decline in Europe…and eventually Luther wanting people following his teachings to be squashed, hence him urging for the death of those 100,000 that were slaughtered in the peasant uprisings.
 
There is a book called, “The Facts about Luther” that might be a good read here. Part of his departure from the church was that he was excommunicated (sp?) for preaching heresy. He was warned several times first. It was then that he started taking issue with what the Church was teaching.
 
I am currently studying Martin Luther for a history class that covers the Reformation. I just finished reading Young Man Luther by Eric Erickson and am now reading Here I Stand by Roland Bainton. I would like to hear from Catholics and non Catholics alike as to what they make of the monk from Wittenberg who brought the Catholic Church to its knees with the power of his pen, aided by the printing press of course. I am Catholic myself and remain a Catholic, but what your opinions of this man who made such an impact on history?
Please see my thread - “The protestant reformation was a catastrophy” posted earlier today.

RbM
 
I think Jacques Maritain in his Three Reformers: Luther-Descartes-Rousseau, best encapsulates Luther’s self-centeredness that has played itself out in the centuries since. (Appropriately, Maritain refers to the section on Luther as "The Advent of the Self):
What first impresses us in Luther’s character is egocentrism: something much subtler, much deeper, and much more serious, than egoism; a metaphysical egoism. Luther’s self becomes practically the center of gravity of everything, especially in the spiritual order. And Luther’s self is not only his passing quarrels and passions, it has a representative value; it is the self of the created being, the incommunicable stuff of the human individual. The Reformation unbridled the human self in the spiritual and religious order, as the Renaissance (I mean the hidden spirit of the Renaissance) unbridled the human self in the order of natural and sensible activities.
After Luther decided to refuse obedience to the Pope and break with the communion of the Church, his self is henceforth supreme, despite his interior agonies which increased until the end. Every “external” rule, . . .becomes then an intolerable insult to his ‘Christian liberty.’
“I do not admit,” he writes in June 1522, “that my doctrine can be judged by anyone, even by the angels. He who does not receive my doctrine cannot be saved.” [Erl., 28, 144]. “Luther’s self,” wrote Moehler, “was in his opinion the centre round which all humanity should gravitate; he made himself the universal man in whom all should find their model. Let us make no bones about it, he put himself in the place of Jesus Christ.”
As we have already noticed, Luther’s doctrine is itself only a universalization of his self, a projection of his self into the world of eternal truths. From this point of view, what distinguishes the father of Protestantism from the other great heresiarchs is that they started first from a dogmatic error, from a false doctrinal view; whatever their psychological origins may have been, the cause of their heresies is a deviation of the intelligence, and their own fortunes only count insofar as they conditioned that deviation. It is quite different with Luther. What counts is his life, his history. Doctrine comes as an extra. Lutheranism is not a system worked out by Luther; it is the over-flow of Luther’s individuality.
 
Well for a start he did NOT bring the Catholic Church to its knees.
Secondly, Luther was a coward. Seeing corrupt practices by some bishops and priests his faith was not strong enough to trust in God for him to stay and help change things. He ran away.
Third he was so arrogant that once he left the Church he decided he was the only one on earth would could interpret scripture.
Then he decided to chop out some books of the Old Testament and New Testament because they contradicted what he preached.
In short I have no respect for Luther, a man whose impact on history was to endanger the immortal souls of many by deceiving them into following his ways.
He didn’t bring the catholic church to its knees? He caused more people to leave the church than anyone I can think of. He nearly caused the Church to disintegrate. Also it wasn’t just the corrupt practices of clergy he objected to, he rejected the entire sacramental system. The more I study Luther the more I see him as a complicated figure. I do not claim to have an answer as to what kind of person he really was or what his motives were. All I can say is that as a Catholic in 2009 I desire to follow the gospel with humility, perhaps as he desired to do also, in his own way.
 
Martin Luther was a heritic and I don’t have much good to say about the man, and as for the Catholic church, it is still going strong today. For the Lord said to Peter, You are Peter the rock and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.:signofcross:
 
I think that Luther was a well meaning man of faith, but he greatly feared hell, so much so that he ended up, slowly at first, modifying the teachings of the Church to suit himself and make himself more comfortable. In the end, he deceived himself and many others.
And I must stress, that even at the end of his life, I believe he was a man of faith and a true follower of Christ, however deeply in error he may have been.
Sorry George, I don’t. I think his inspiration came from a secret place.

It was in the cold winter of 1518- 1519 when Luther found his fiduciary faith of sola fides. It has been described by many outside the Church as the single most edifying concept in modern Christianity. And it all took place in the Tower of the Monastery. It seems there was single epiphany that sits in the forefront of modern history leading to the renting of the church. As ironic as this epiphany will turn out to be, it will eventually flush Christian insight into a new era where a man who saw himself as the NEW PHROPHIT JOHN. Repent, Repent is the cry bringing fourth tangible results. Not the battle cry but the tangible results are what seem odoriferous to Catholics. The epiphany came after hours of sitting in anguish; a special illumination came to Luther from God, so he thought as he grunted his studies, and consumed with his mission. This is a long ago told but forgotten story, until…In the wrings of Luther himself we can trace the time, the city, and the location of his epiphany. I’ve said many times, God has an ironic sense of humor, sometimes plain and simple, sometimes, if we remember Job, somewhat morbid.

It seems that Martin Luther was moved with the knowledge that there was absolute assurance of salvation by what we’ve come to know as ‘faith alone’. Not, that the grace of faith is salvific but it provides assurance, not just the type of assurance of a confidant faith, but assurance of, so to speak, ‘grasping the ring’ of salvation. “Faith without the works which Luther had now come to detest, and attack “self-righteousness,” as in the Commentary on Romans “sola fides…quoe non nititur operibus illis [orationibus et praepartoriis”]“ ( Grisar, 1913, Luther I, p 378) One presumption made runs through man like goose fodder; is explained by Luther *“the law, even as explained in the New Testament, which renders assurance of salvation possible only after the fulfillment of demands impossible to the natural man, is, it is true, necessary as a negative preparation for faith no to be regarded as the expression of the relationship desired by God between Himself and man. “ * Here we find the dump his Luther error. The gospels and epistles of the New Testament demand a ‘full’ relationship in which man is very capable of giving and is expressed daily in the virtues of marriage. Luther says that God merely reveals the law for ‘educational’ purposes.

But, I’m getting ahead of myself. Who was Martin Luther? Warren H. Carroll tells us, “There is no lack of evidence to answer that question. He left an enormous corpus of writings,” He also left us an enormous corpus. Politically sensitive, he was rather round and tall for his day, with a booming voice. He spent many hours saddled to the table, if it could hold him, drinking. “Contemporaries noted especially the brilliance of the black eyes deep-set in his beefy face, which could glow with inspiration or burn with anger, dominating and attracting his followers and cowing his adversaries…while, on the other hand, some remarks made by his opponents on the uncanny effect of his magic glance will be mentioned later.” (Grisar, Luther, I, 279); like one possessed by the spirit, or vapors. Some of Luther’s students described him as “mysterious and obscure” (Ibid). But, such a man would undoubtedly have gastrointestinal issues but it seemed that Luther’s vapors where produced in fires of the belly.

Luther, in the winter months of 1518 – 1519 took to moving his place of study from his cold and dank chambers to his “secret chamber.” “From where he could hear, the croaking of the ravens and magpies about the towers in front of his windows sounded like the voices which spoke in the depths of his soul” (Ibid., VII, p. 79). It’s here that he discovers ‘faith alone;’ it’s here that he discovers his ‘Evangel’ - what ever that was. In his own, probably slurred, words from around the kitchen table, he is constantly heard to talk of his “secret places.”

It’s in the Tower of the monastery, his study, Luther’s Chamber where he first contemplated among the voices in a mist of mind we are struck by the confusion:

“The passage, Romans 1., The Justice of God is revealed in the Gospel, had, till then, been an obstacle to me. For I hated the words ‘justice of God’, which according to the use and custom of all teachers I had been taught to interpret in the philosophical sense, namely, as referring to the formal and active justice by which God is just and punishes the sinners and the unjust. Although I was a blameless monk, I felt myself as a sinner before God, suffered great trouble of conscience and was unable to look with confidence on God as propitiated by my satisfaction, therefore I did not love, but on the contrary, hated, the just God Who punishes sinners ; I was angry with Him with furious murmuring, and said : The unhappy sinners and those who owing to original sin are for all eternity rejected are already sufficiently oppressed by every kind of misfortune owing to the Ten Commandments, and as though this were not enough God wills [according to Rom. 1.] by means of the gospel to heap pain on pain, and threatens us with His Justice and His Anger even in the gospel.”​

“For the justice of God is revealed therein, from faith unto faith, as it is written: The just man lives by faith.” Romans 1:17​

Continued;
 
Continued;

Luther would have been familiar with St. John Chrysostom’s Homily 2 on Romans: “But he who has become just shall live, not for the present life only, but for that which is to come. And he hints not only this, but also another thing along with this, namely, the brightness and gloriousness of such a life.” Distinctively less confused, less eaten with guilt of the conscience, Catholics then and now interpreted this verse as the prescribed and active justice whereby God punishes sinners AND rewords the faithful; apparently something dropped by Luther? I don’t think so, that is not unless… the door hinge of Luther’s New Revelation to mankind comes from Luther’s inspiration from a ‘secret place.’

The monastery where Luther lived was old castle, Roman in architecture. Most of us aren’t familiar with this type of architecture, I’ll do my best to describe it. We’ll start with the mote, everybody knows what a mote is; this would have been at least 30-yards wide with near vertical banks – wide enough where siege machines couldn’t span. The water in the mote would likely be a stagnant cesspool. The castle structure would appear to come out of the water – or should I say the cesspool – looking something like the old toilet sitting in the duck pond outback. The reason for the sewage should become self evident. Depending on the fortification, the building pad would be 4 to six feet above the water, and then above that sometimes as much as 6 feet to 8 feet would be the ground floor and living courters; most likely of the lord of the Castle. The intervening space is a hypocaust chamber for distributing heat under the ground floor, somewhat like a modern forced-air vent system works. Vertical, shafts or hollow spaces transmitted the heated air (and smoke) up the castle wall and out one or more chimneys. The towers were usually built on the corners; some had upper portions that projected out over the water for a strategic view. Under siege these towers had defensive uses, but during peace they were used as privies – the strategic view looked directly down into the mote.

The “privy situated above the Hypocaustom” would have been a privy over a hollow space or system of channels in the floor providing a central heating system, receiving and distributing heat from a furnace throughout the castle. The problem with this system is its inefficiency relying strictly on convection. But there is a more serious problem far beyond the economics of heating the old castle; the hypocaust system is a very dangerous when the heat is cranked up. The fumes created by the fire in the furnace seep up and wafted out of every nook and cranny filling the entire castle with smoke and fumes, most notably carbon monoxide gases. Carbon monoxide has about the same molecular weight as air therefore it would be reasonable to expect most rooms of the castle, not just the upper most or lower most, to be filled with these fumes and gases. Consequently, the privy would have been a warm place to study on a cold winter night whether or not one was gastro-intestinally challenged or not. And too, it would be a good place to, how should I say, discharge copious amounts of consumed beer. A great chair for a Pope want-a-be.

Large concentrations of carbon monoxide in a very short time can cause death. However, long exposure to moderate amounts of Co causes one or more of the following: lightheadedness, depression, paranoia, confusion, memory loss, delirium, emotional disturbances, and hallucinations.

During meditations we read that Luther went to what was sometimes called a ‘secret place’ (as a matter of modesty) a place we call a privy which in this case was a room above the hypocaust or a placed called the cloaca, sometimes translated as closet (water closet i.e., urinal). This place would have been one of the warmest in the monastery – a good place to be during the cold, cold, winter of 1518 – 1519. And the most likely place where the concentrations of CO would be at their highest.
During one of Luther’s ‘Kitchen Table’ conversation turns to the voices heard – voices of the hypocaust: “On one occasion on this tower (where the privy of the monks was situated) when I was speculating on the words, etc., the Holy Ghost” (Lauterbach’s ”Colloquia” (ed. by Bindseil) Ibid., p396 But this isn’t the only voice we here of the Luther’s ‘Tower’. I wonder if this is what old ladies used to call ‘vapors’.

“The Lutheran pastor Caspar Khummer, who, in 1554, made a collection of Table-Talk, relates both circumstances (in Lauter bach s edition) : “ Cum semel in hac turri speculabar,” and further on : “ With this knowledge the Holy Ghost inspired me in this cloaca on the tower”; Ibid. p 396. The ‘cloaca’ was a place where one relieved himself from a night of heavy drinking. “The mention of the cloaca explains the entry of Johann Schlaginhaufen in his notes of Luther s own words in 1532 : “ This art the Spiritus sanctus infused into me in this Cl.” 6 Cloaca is abbreviated into CL, probably because Schlaginhaufen s copyist, was reluctant to write it out in full alongside of the account of the inspiration which Luther had received from the Holy Ghost ; the editor suggests we should read “ Capitel “; but the chapter-house is not to be thought of. “ Ibid., P 396​

What’s the irony? What’s the irony!!! The ‘secret places’ referred to is the place where Luther received his ‘inspiration’ was no less than the crapper. What are we to assume that his vision was a movement gone wrong, or was it all just vapors?

JoeT
 
He didn’t bring the catholic church to its knees? He caused more people to leave the church than anyone I can think of. He nearly caused the Church to disintegrate. Also it wasn’t just the corrupt practices of clergy he objected to, he rejected the entire sacramental system. The more I study Luther the more I see him as a complicated figure. I do not claim to have an answer as to what kind of person he really was or what his motives were. All I can say is that as a Catholic in 2009 I desire to follow the gospel with humility, perhaps as he desired to do also, in his own way.
The Church was NOT brought to its knees. Jesus told us that would never happen.

As for Luther he most certainly was not a humble person. In fact quite the opposite, he was an arrogant man. Read all his writings and you will see what I mean.
 
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