Martin Luther's 82nd thesis

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As we are siblings in Christ, neither is helpful or appropriate, is it, Josie?

Jon
We are siblings in Christ Jon no matter what our differences may be theologically. And yes neither is helpful (sorry if I ever hurt you with my comments Jon my intention is not to discredit Lutheranism but the ideas/doctrines that came out of the reformation). God bless.

p.s. By the way, humble maid is my older sister.
 
I could ask the same question: why would God want His one True Church to be defended by a man like Johannes Ecke, who at one time criticized Luther for being, of all things, a judaizer?
Jon
:rotfl::rotfl:

WITW???*

How, pray tell, did the good Ecke defend THAT position?
  • = What In The World
 
Hiter was raised Catholic

Childhood and youth

Adolf Hitler was brought up a Roman Catholic. According to historian Bradley F. Smith, Hitler’s father Alois, though nominally a Catholic, was a religious sceptic,[1] while his mother was a practising Catholic.[2] According to historian Michael Rissmann, young Hitler was influenced in school by Pan-Germanism and began to reject the Church and Catholicism, receiving Confirmation only unwillingly. A boyhood friend reports that after Hitler had left home, he never attended Mass or received the Sacraments.[3] Georg Ritter von Schönerer’s writings and the written legacy of his Pan-German Away from Rome! movement, which agitated against the Roman Catholic Church at the end of the 19th century, may have influenced the young Hitler.[4] At the Benedictine monastery school which Hitler attended for one school year as a child (1897-98), Hitler became top of his class, receiving twelve 1’s, the highest grade, in the final quarter. He also sang as a chorister at the monastery and was very proud of this.[5]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler’s_religious_beliefs

So long as Adolf Hitler was in power,
his Roman Catholic Church
never questioned his Catholicism
  • at least not in public - which is
    where it mattered politically.
A posed picture which Hitler himself used often
to show what a good “practicing Catholic” he was.
Code:
    Catholics today all try to repudiate Adolf Hitler and deny that he was a fellow Roman Catholic.  But this was definitely not the case so long as he was in power, after he had given Germans jobs and reasons to be proud of their powerful country, following the period of great economic depression and great shame which were the results of the country's disastrous defeat in World War One.  Hitler understood how much it would hurt his cause if the 66% of the German population who were Protestants and the 33% who were fellow Catholics were to learn how anti-Christian he and his Nazi ring leaders actually were in their hearts.  Although we now know that Adolf Hitler expressed his true thoughts and feelings for his Catholic Church in his private writings and in his candid communications with his inner circle, we also know that he was a shrewd politician who knew how to manipulate the churchmen of both of the major German faiths to his advantage, by convincing them at the time that he was a champion, not an opponent, of Christianity...
liberalslikechrist.org/Catholic/Hitlersfaith.html
So what if Hitler was born a Catholic? The world was mostly Catholic then and he loved his Catholic faith so much that he killed his fellow Catholics. Hitler had a supreme hatred for Catholics. He actually converted to Protestanism when he came into power. So he died Protestant. But so what?
 
Is this a contest?
I think (without being able to read minds) that the intention was to demonstrate that one of the foremost opponents of the Nazi regime (who paid for that opposition with imprisonment, and was later martyred for Christ), was a Lutheran pastor, in response to the “Anti-semitism is a protestant thing!”-rhetoric prevalent in this thread.
 
So what if Hitler was born a Catholic? The world was mostly Catholic then and he loved his Catholic faith so much that he killed his fellow Catholics. Hitler had a supreme hatred for Catholics. He actually converted to Protestanism when he came into power. So he died Protestant. But so what?
I believe he was an atheist (became one in his late teens).
 
So what if Hitler was born a Catholic? The world was mostly Catholic then and he loved his Catholic faith so much that he killed his fellow Catholics. Hitler had a supreme hatred for Catholics. He actually converted to Protestanism when he came into power. So he died Protestant. But so what?
True, that what Hitler was born as is of no relevance, as his disdain for not only the RC church, but Christianity in general, is clear as day.

I would, however, like you to provide some kind of proof of your claim that he “converted to Protestantism when he came into power”…
 
True, that what Hitler was born as is of no relevance, as his disdain for not only the RC church, but Christianity in general, is clear as day.

I would, however, like you to provide some kind of proof of your claim that he “converted to Protestantism when he came into power”…
Bottom line here is this. If Luther was doing God’s work, he wouldn’t of failed miserably at trying to reform the Catholic church. The church Christ established. Because God doesn’t fail.
 
I think (without being able to read minds) that the intention was to demonstrate that one of the foremost opponents of the Nazi regime (who paid for that opposition with imprisonment, and was later martyred for Christ), was a Lutheran pastor, in response to the “Anti-semitism is a protestant thing!”-rhetoric prevalent in this thread.
Nobody is saying that “anti-semitism is a protestant thing.” And I don’t know if Bonhoffer was one of the foremost opponents of the Nazi regime but he definitely was one of thousands of pastors and priests who were martyred for the faith.
 
True, that what Hitler was born as is of no relevance, as his disdain for not only the RC church, but Christianity in general, is clear as day.

I would, however, like you to provide some kind of proof of your claim that he “converted to Protestantism when he came into power”…
During the Nazi regime, the Protestant church was standing firm against the state. In the case of the Holocaust, the Protestant church REMAINED SILENT and watched the mistreatment of the Jews going on right in front of their eyes. They were tolerant of Hitler’s actions.
The Protestant church even attempted to use Romans 13:6 as their reason for siding with the State.
I know you’ve also heard of Deitrich bonhoeffer???
 
Nobody is saying that “anti-semitism is a protestant thing.” And I don’t know if Bonhoffer was one of the foremost opponents of the Nazi regime but he definitely was one of thousands of pastors and priests who were martyred for the faith.
Bonhoeffer was involved in an assasination plot against Hitler. I don’t know how many other thousands of pastors and priests were too…
 
:rotfl::rotfl:

WITW???*

How, pray tell, did the good Ecke defend THAT position?
  • = What In The World
Well, the fact is that early in Luther’s life, and in fatcmost of his life, Luther was very positive toward the Jews. It wasn’t until late in life, when it became clear he would not convince them, that he wrote those terrible things.

Jon
 
Bottom line here is this. If Luther was doing God’s work, he wouldn’t of failed miserably at trying to reform the Catholic church. The church Christ established. Because God doesn’t fail.
No, that might be what you want to change the subject into, though.
But please provide the documentation I asked for.
 
Bottom line here is this. If Luther was doing God’s work, he wouldn’t of failed miserably at trying to reform the Catholic church. The church Christ established. Because God doesn’t fail.
Is it safe to say that Trent was a reaction, in part to Luther, and to the abuses he brought to light? Would you further consider Trent a successful reform of the Catholic Church?

Jon
 
Is it safe to say that Trent was a reaction, in part to Luther, and to the abuses he brought to light? Would you further consider Trent a successful reform of the Catholic Church?

Jon
There are reasons what happens within the Catholic church. The Holy Spirit has guided Christ’s church for 2,000 years in spite of your most glorious reformers. Luther thought he’d bring the Catholic church to it’s knees because he thought that 1500 years of Christianity was wrong. But God wasn’t having it. Luther may have only succeeded as doing the devil’s work, but that’s about what I would attribute him as doing, and only that.
 
There are reasons what happens within the Catholic church. The Holy Spirit has guided Christ’s church for 2,000 years in spite of your most glorious reformers. Luther thought he’d bring the Catholic church to it’s knees because he thought that 1500 years of Christianity was wrong. But God wasn’t having it. Luther may have only succeeded as doing the devil’s work, but that’s about what I would attribute him as doing, and only that.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Go back to your other position of knowing very little about Luther, except he was a heretic. It is much more honest and believable.

Jon
 
You have no idea what you are talking about. Go back to your other position of knowing very little about Luther, except he was a heretic. It is much more honest and believable.

Jon
OneTrueCathApos is the most ignorant person on this forum and that is quite an accomplishment in itself. Just when you think he/she couldn’t be more foolish, he/she will post something even more stupifying.
 
Bottom line here is this. If Luther was doing God’s work, he wouldn’t of failed miserably at trying to reform the Catholic church. The church Christ established. Because God doesn’t fail.
He did a great job of forcing the catholic church to reform itself.

There was much grumbling at the time from all quaters about the conduct of the church, and her ministers. The church I believe intended to reform, but Luther held a light into the darkness.

God’s work indeed. 👍
 
OneTrueCathApos is the most ignorant person on this forum and that is quite an accomplishment in itself. Just when you think he/she couldn’t be more foolish, he/she will post something even more stupifying.
I don’t want to get into name-calling, but when she says things like Luther wanted to bring the CC to its knees, there’s just nothing to support that POV, certainly nothing Luther claimed or wrote. It simply isn’t right to lay motive on someone without evidence.
Now, if she has evidence, Luther- “I will bring Rome to its knees”, or some such, then I will admit I was wrong.

Jon
 
I don’t want to get into name-calling, but when she says things like Luther wanted to bring the CC to its knees, there’s just nothing to support that POV, certainly nothing Luther claimed or wrote. It simply isn’t right to lay motive on someone without evidence.
Now, if she has evidence, Luther- “I will bring Rome to its knees”, or some such, then I will admit I was wrong.

Jon
I’m feeling increasaingly irratable at what I view as religious predudice and intolerance from some of the members here. I apologize.
 
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