You and I differ on Martin Luther. Fr. Martin is no friend of mine.
I really don’t care. I care about accuracy. You can dislike Luther all you like, all I am concerned with is that you dislike the real Luther and not some fantasy of Catholic polemic based on a one-sided interpretation of one remark.
His doctrine on Justification by faith is tantamount to saying that good works after grace do not matter.
They don’t have a direct effect on one’s salvation. That is what he is saying in the infamous letter–one’s works have no direct effect on one’s relationship with God. However, a believer is going to do good works–he says that over and over, and the fact that you don’t know this is due purely to your own wilful ignorance.
It follows that what Luther said about sin and liceity go hand in hand. I disagree that he believed that constant sin set up a believer for unbelief.
Well, you can disagree with the plain evidence all you like, but that just discredits you. Luther said, in his 1535 Galatians commentary (on Gal. 5.17):
If they [the godly/saints, i.e., believers] obey the flesh in fulfilling the lusts thereof, then do they lose faith and the Holy Ghost. And if they do not abhor their sin and return unto Christ (who hath given the keys to his Church, to receive and raise up those that be fallen, that so they may recover faith and the Holy Ghost), they die in their sins. Wherefore we speak not of them which dream that they have faith, and yet continue still in their sins.
At what point would constant sin cause a person to disbelief?
At the point at which one came to make a fully informed, conscious decision whether or not to repent of one’s sins. For instance, the most glaring example of a sinning believer to which Luther pointed was David. Luther clearly believed that David remained a believer while committing adultery and murder. That’s deeply troubling to me and as a Wesleyan I strongly disagree with Luther on this point. However, at the point at which Nathan confronted David with what he had done, David repented, and Luther would say that he did this precisely because he was a believer.
I agree that this is a point of tension in Luther. I agree that he was less careful in his earlier writings (among which is the letter everyone quotes), although he insisted in those earlier writings that people would spontaneously do good works if they were believers. As time went on, Luther came to realize that his teaching could be taken as a license to sin, so he expressed himself more clearly. At no point, however, did Luther ever teach that a believer would sin persistently and without repentance.
you opt him out of his corner by saying that he did not mean what he said.
No, I explain what he said in the context of his teaching as a whole. You pick on one isolated statement and ignore everything else Luther taught throughout his entire life. My interpretation makes sense of the “sin boldly” remark and of the many other things he said as well. You admit below that you can’t be bothered to study Luther’s writings in any depth, so obviously you are in no position to speak about this subject–just as I am in no position to go up against someone who has studied a theologian I can’t be bothered to read (such as Paul Tillich) if they claim that he was more orthodox and moral than I think he was.
You would like me to undertake a study of his works.
Not particularly. But I would like you not to speak dogmatically on a subject concerning which you admit that you are ignorant.
all our good works are evil in themself; good works for him are sins.
Because people are radically sinful, so everything that they do (even outwardly “good” acts) are sinful–and if they think that their good deeds merit something from God, then their good deeds are all the more sinful, because they are blasphemous and presumptuous.
He didn’t believe in the fear of hell.
As a motivation for truly good works, no. He believed that truly good (though still flawed) works were possibly only on the basis of faith–i.e., the confidence that one has been accepted by God on the basis of Christ’s saving work. However, the fear of hell might play a role in driving a person to despair of their own works (as they came to realize that nothing they did could save them from hell) and in eventually trusting in Christ.
The more that a man strives for good, the more he sins.
If that “striving” is directed toward earning salvation, yes.
The best of course is that a man who believes is guaranteed that he is numbered among the predestined.
Does Luther say this in “Wider das Papsttum”? I would be very surprised. This was a Reformed teaching, not as far as I know something Luther ever taught. Luther did not link election and justification in this way.
Edwin
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