Marxism

[vern_humphrey]

Lol! Please don’t trouble Vern with these types of details. The simple fact that true Marxism does not equate with the communist/stalinist regimes influenced by Marx is lost on Vern. Vern sees red (pun intended) when you just mention the term “marxism”. Vern gets enraged about Pol Pot, socialized medicine and God know what else (homeschool coops might be anathema to Vern).

Give me an example of “true Marxism.” Name one country that is “truly Marxist.”

Marxism is what it is – a system that creates brutal totalitarian dictatorships.

Blaming Marx for Stalin, Pol Pot and other despicable dictators is like blaming Jesus for the Borgia popes and every evil thing perpetuated by the Church and Christians. Marxism, like Christianity, has been implemented in many poor ways. One could easily argue that both are too “pie in the sky” to ever be completely implemented. While diametrically opposed on spiritual issues, Marxism and Christianity have a lot in common in the social justice arena.

Jesus did not create a system that requires total power be placed in the hands of the state. Marx did. And that’s the difference.

There are plenty of examples of peoples and nations practicing Christianity without mass murder – there are none of people or nations practicing Marxism.

 

[Peregrino]

Give me an example of “true Marxism.” Name one country that is “truly Marxist.”

Actually I can’t and that is my point.

Marxism is what it is – a system that creates brutal totalitarian dictatorships.

Do yourself (and me) a favor and actually read some Marx, rather than simply spouting propaganda and rhetoric utilized a couple of generations ago…

Jesus did not create a system that requires total power be placed in the hands of the state.

I think the parallels between the type of state you are (inaccurately) attributing to Marx and the type of “spiritual hegemony” the Church would like to exert in the world are quite fascinating…

You need to spend some time away from the forums and do some serious reading. You like to take the angle of “you will know the tree by its fruit” regarding this subject and then condemn it. The problem is, you don’t know what the tree called “Marxism” looks like. The Communist/Stalinist regimes we have seen don’t resemble Marxism-they may have been inspired by the principles of communalism/common ownership of the means of production but they don’t acknowledge that Marx considered democracy to be a fundamental part of socialist society.

Debating this stuff with you is truly a waste of time. You and I are in 100% agreement about the regimes you denounce, however, they aren’t representative of Marx’s view of the world, just like the Crusades wouldn’t be approved by Christ. I won’t be responding to this thread anymore. Good luck to you in your research.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Actually I can’t and that is my point.

And that is my point – all attempts at Marxism degenerate into brutal, totalitarian dictatorships. And that is because brutal, totalitarian dictatorship is inherent in Marxism.

Do yourself (and me) a favor and actually read some Marx, rather than simply spouting propaganda and rhetoric utilized a couple of generations ago…

Do yourself (and me) a favor and stop making nasty, personal comments like this. I have read Marx. I took an undergraduate course in Marx.

I think the parallels between the type of state you are (inaccurately-once again my friend you need to spend some time away from the forums and do some serious reading) attributing to Marx and the type of “spiritual hegemony” the Church would like to exert in the world are quite fascinating…

I think you need to look out at the real world and see Marxism as it is, not as some sort of academic fantasy.

 

[Proletarian]

After Pope John Paul II condemned the Worker Priests for their use of marxist analysis (NB not marxist politics, just the intellectual techniques taught by marxist sociology), is it fair to say that as Catholics we should be intellectually oppposed to any theories relying on dialectical materialism as a method of inquiry?

As Catholics we are bound by the belief that there exists both a material and spiritual element to our existence. Because of this we must concede that the material does indeed influence our existence. In this respect it is perfectly acceptable to use Marxist theory as a tool to analyse the material; provided that it does not subordinate the spiritual.

In my opinion Leonardo Boff’s book Introducing Liberation Theology deals with this issue very well