Mary always betrothed or did marry Joseph

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Promise91

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I’m going to be a little raw expressing this concern because I do find it disturbing and was wondering what the Roman Catholic Church teaches or believes on this topic.
I have ran into Christians who insist that Mary and Joseph were never married. I totally get and understand ever-virgin Mary. That is not my issue.
But marriage can exist without consummation from what I can understand biblically.
Marriage is a whole new level of commitment than engagement and there are people who marry who cannot have relations for one reason or another.
These same people insist that it is heretical to depict Joseph beside Mary in family portraits. I feel this really tears down the family unit of the Holy Family and is another attack on family unity in general. I feel that down playing Joseph role in Jesus’ and Mary’s life really disrespectful.
Joseph is just as much as a husband to Mary and father to Jesus regardless of relations with his wife.
And in an earthly sense, Joseph was head of household and was the head of Mary.
Perhaps I am missing or not understanding something about all of this.
What is the Roman Catholic Teaching? Did Mary and Joseph marry when the groom (Joseph) came to take his bride after they were separated during engagement? Gabriel did indeed say not to fear taking Mary as his wife.

scripture references
Matthew 1:16,18, 20, 24-25
 
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The Blessed Mother and St. Joseph most certainly were married, though the marriage was never consummated. Still, it was a valid marriage. We Catholics have a special place in our hearts for devotion to the Holy Family of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!
 
The Church teaches that they were indeed married. In fact, the betrothal was in those days a type of “marriage” (the first stage, followed by the second stage of bringing your wife to your home) as the Scripture says that Joseph was planning to divorce Mary quietly when he found she was pregnant. If there had been no marriage, he would not have needed to think about a divorce.

St. Joseph is a great saint, and after Mary, deserves the most respect of all the saints.
 
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The scriptures say that Mary and Joseph were married and that Jesus was presented at the temple as Joseph’s son. I would take the gospel writers at their word. Not sure why some people try to make that more complicated than it needs to be. Sorry that some are causing you so much confusion.
 
thank you. its almost my own fault i suppose. I am trying to learn about the EOC as someone who is technically a protestant. I am tired of the issues with Protestantism and I guess I have issues (though few) with the EOC.
however the argument they present is that Joseph is the betrothed guardian of mary so that is how Jesus can be called his son. However I pointed out that hereditary laws dont happen in a mere engagement. brides are also under the guardianship of the parents and/or relatives until the groom comes to take her away.
 
I think people today understand “betrothal” as an engagement or as something different than the Jewish people of Mary and Joseph’s time did.
I have always understood that Mary and Joseph were basically married when the angel appeared unto Mary. They just weren’t living together yet and had not had relations.
 
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Exactly. St. Joseph and Mary were all but married when they were betrothed. You did not just back out of that in those days. It is noteworthy that St. Joseph wasn’t thinking of calling off the marriage, but divorcing her when he suspected she may have committed adultery! No one today would say they were divorcing their fiance, they’d say they are calling off the marriage.
 
There are many medieval/Renaissance pictures of the marriage of Mary and Joseph, so you might want to google those. Of course, they give testimony to the Catholic belief that this was a true marriage, although not consummated physically. There is the phrase “Josephite marriage” to signify marriages that are true marriages but the spouses have chosen to maintain virginity.
One of the most famous of these pictures is Raphael’s The Marriage of the Virgin. It’s really beautiful.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I think people today understand “betrothal” as an engagement or as something different than the Jewish people of Mary and Joseph’s time did.
I have always understood that Mary and Joseph were basically married when the angel appeared unto Mary. They just weren’t living together yet and had not had relations
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Yes!

They entered into a celibate marriage (what is known today also as a Josephite marriage) They never intended to consummate their marriage. Joseph was much older than Mary and they married so that she would be protected by him. Joseph’s children by a presumed first wife (deceased), are considered Jesus brothers, but are not children of Mary as she had no other children.
 
I would say that if they lived together as they did, then they would have married, also they did things as a couple… Presentation and finding of our Lord in the temple
 
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JanetF said:
They entered into a celibate marriage (what is known today also as a Josephite marriage) They never intended to consummate their marriage. Joseph was much older than Mary and they married so that she would be protected by him. Joseph’s children by a presumed first wife (deceased), are considered Jesus brothers, but are not children of Mary as she had no other children.
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We don’t know that Joseph was much older than Mary or that he had children. My Cathedral, for example, has a very youthful Joseph statue, and I honestly prefer to think of his that way. He is often portrayed as old to signify his ability to keep continent with the virginal Mary, but it is wonderful to think of a young, chaste Joseph.
 
From the footnotes of the NAB

7 [18] Betrothed to Joseph: betrothal was the first part of the marriage, constituting a man and woman as husband and wife. Subsequent infidelity was considered adultery. The betrothal was followed some months later by the husband’s taking his wife into his home, at which time normal married life began.
 
St Joseph was likely older yes and likely died before Jesus ministry yes, but Jesus cousins in the Bible were not likely St Joseph’s children, rather the Virgin Mary’s sister’s children.
 
And there is some speculation I have read, that Mary and Joseph were of the Essene sect, which took strict vows of virginity yet were still recognized as married in Jewish law. One thing is for sure, as others have said, the RCC considered that Joseph and Mary were married.
 
Limoncello4021 said:
but it is wonderful to think of a young, chaste Joseph
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I completely agree. I find it much more relatable and profound to see Joseph and Mary as a couple who loved each other and expected to live a normal married life before the angel called.
 
MikeInVA said:
I completely agree. I find it much more relatable and profound to see Joseph and Mary as a couple who loved each other and expected to live a normal married life before the angel called.
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Mary’s response to the angel suggests that was not the case.

I think a young man would serve a protector role better though - otherwise Mary would have been expecting to be a childless widow and that would not have been a good situation for her.
 
Promise91.

People who are “betrothed” in an ancient Jewish sense ARE MARRIED already.

When St. Gabriel the archangel appeared to Mary, he was appearing to a married woman.

Not a “single girl” as is often sentimentally (but wrongly) presented.

I’ll try to put up a link with more info. on this later.

God bless.

Cathoholic
 
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Question about the importance of Mary's virginity Non-Catholic Religions
I am posting a segment here from our local Catholic Men’s Bible Group study on ancient Hebrew Marriage . . . . Ancient Jewish Marriage As Concerning Mary And Joseph One thing that we often get wrong immediately concerning Mary’s Virginal Conception of Jesus is that Mary was an “unwed” mother. I have heard this incorrectly asserted many times. Mary and Joseph when introduced to us in the Gospels ARE ALREADY MAN AND WIFE.
MATTHEW 1:18 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in t…
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Question about the importance of Mary's virginity Non-Catholic Religions
***Continued from last post of mine. . . . *** Let’s look again at Matthew 1:18 and see what St. Matthew assumes you know (St. Matthew was writing to Jews). Let’s begin by looking at the first half of Matthew 1:18.
MATTHEW 1:18a 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, . . . . Q: What is St. Matthew telling us here? A: That Mary and Joseph have completed kiddushin. That’s what “betrothed” means. They are MARRIE…
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Why would Mary remain a virgin...after marriage? Non-Catholic Religions
Benhur. You said in post 1044: Mary and Joseph not married , else why did the angel say to take her for your wife Mary and Joseph WERE MARRIED. The angel doesn’t say “to take Mary for his wife”. The angel said to take Mary, your wife . . . meaning taking Mary your wife into your home. The Marriage was two-stage but the actual marriage was the first stage. That is called “betrothal” or “kiddushin”. *
  • ]Old Covenant kiddushin = betrothal = Married (and to break this would require a…
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  • There is not a single verse of scripture that teaches that Mary had other children.

    Likewise there is not a single verse of scripture which refers to anyone as a son or daughter of Mary.
 
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