Mary and her marriage

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"Hereiam2h

Perhaps, but some “pious legends” become part of the deposit of faith."

That is completely untrue.
Thistle - are you unable to use the quote facility?

It is pointless to include the time offset eg. The “2h” above. That changes with time. It is 2h 2 hour’s after the post is written, and will be 3h after a further hour.
 
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How is that relevant to my response?? You are digressing because you are wrong. Pious legends do NOT become part of the deposit of faith.
 
Hmm I guess Mary marrying Joseph would make sense then.

As for the second half I’m not knowledgeable on temple virgins and such but it does seem like that could have happened. Thanks, it’s quite interesting
 
The real snag is Mary’s response I say, it’s more like a continuous not knowing relations with a man I think.

The answer to the op is that consecrated virgins often were married, a woman needed to be in the house of a man in general.
 
Pious legends do NOT become part of the deposit of faith.
The feast day of St. Anne and St. Joachim, mother and father of blessed virgin in July 25 in the West, and July 26th in the east.

The tradition is based on the apocryphal writing I mentioned before.

The pious legend didnt take hold until between the 4th and 7th century.

Case closed.
 
well, it’s not like that snag is new to me. That snag was a belief I accepted for many many years. A belief I haven’t abandoned but have decided to not let be an obstacle to other possibilities.

There are many things that come from the protoevangelium of James.that don’t seem to fit well with the Gospels
 
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hm, I’m not so sure about that.

Are you denying the very long held belief in the perpetual virginity of Mary? Her three crowns are supposed to stand for Virginity before during and after the birth of Christ.
 
No, In fact I am certain of the perpetual virginity of Mary. These things from the the book of James are trifles compared to the truths that support her perpetual virginity. Like those that come from the canon. The types that come from the OT her role in the NT, the teachings of the Church.
 
If Mary vowed to be a virgin as a young girl, why was she betrothed in the first place? And is her relationship with Joseph romantic or just purely platonic?

Someone asked me this and I don’t really have a good answer.
According to the protoevangelium sp?) of James, the issue was that the society was not geared for a woman to provide for herself as an adult without a husband. There was no community for adult virgins. Her vow was unusual. As such, St. Joseph was a widower who became her betrothed husband to serve more of a guardianship role over her. He was much older and had grown or nearly grown children. James, the supposed writer of this gospel, is claimed to be Joseph’s son from his previous marriage and thus the brother of Jesus. The document remained popular but was controversial and rejected. Some of the historical criticisms against it are bizarre. For instance, the gospel mentions a midwife being present at the birth of Jesus, and Aquinas found the idea of Mary having a midwife to be insanely offensive. I’m just like “What? Why does it matter?”

It is the document where we get Mary’s parents’ name and to which we can trace many traditions about Mary, but he was rejected from the canon of scripture even though it’s still regarded as not being dangerous to read or filled with heresy.
 
So the story about Mary making that vow in the temple isn’t infallible as say, the assumption?
Ahh… I see what you did there! 😉

No – the Scriptures aren’t the only source for apostolic teaching. The Church came to the decision that it was finally time to declare as dogma what had been taught by the whole Church consistently over time, and celebrated in Church liturgical tradition.

(Interestingly, there is a feast to celebrate what we’re talking about here: November 21 is the feast of the Presentation of Mary. So, I think we can assert that there is a certain level of Church teaching associated with the idea that Mary was consecrated to God. (Since he addressed levels of Church teaching tangentially, I’ll be interested in seeing @GodIsGood77’s response to this point…))
 
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Are you sure you are Catholic? The Deposit of Faith has nothing to do with feast days.
Be careful, @thistle: the history of the liturgical celebrations of the Church is precisely one of the reasons Pope Pius XII gave for the declaration of the dogma of the Assumption in Munificentissumus deus
 
According to the protoevangelium sp?) of James, the issue was that the society was not geared for a woman to provide for herself as an adult without a husband.
Actually, that wasn’t quite the implication. In the document, the priests are noting that a girl – who is ‘coming of age’ as a woman – cannot stay in the temple. It wasn’t a question of “providing for herself”, it was a question of ritual purity and keeping the temple free from ritual impurity. 😉
Some of the historical criticisms against it are bizarre. For instance, the gospel mentions a midwife being present at the birth of Jesus, and Aquinas found the idea of Mary having a midwife to be insanely offensive. I’m just like “What? Why does it matter?”
Because it implies that Jesus’ birth wasn’t immaculate and pure and painless. (However, the document asserts that the midwife did nothing and left right after the birth. Aquinas sees the mere presence of a midwife as an admission that the birth included normal child-bearing pain.)
 
Be careful, @thistle: the history of the liturgical celebrations of the Church is precisely one of the reasons Pope Pius XII gave for the declaration of the dogma of the Assumption in Munificentissumus deus…
The Deposit of Faith is Sacred Scripture plus Apostolic Tradition and not pious tradition. Pious tradition is not part of the Deposit of Faith.
 
The Deposit of Faith is Sacred Scripture plus Apostolic Tradition and not pious tradition.
Look back again at what you said (which prompted my reply). You weren’t talking about pious tradition, you were talking about feast days. 😉
 
Slightly offside to your discussion but does anyone not think Mary’s response to the angel- her question was a sort of ‘check’ that the angel was indeed from God and not a disguised Satan, as to the line of thinking how am I to keep my vow to God and get pregnant as well? and when the angel answers it confirms it is indeed God’s messenger, further reiterated by the words ‘for with God nothing is impossible’.
It stands to reason Mary must be no stranger to the attempts of temptation, being such a big part of our redemption. Also that this must not have been the first time to her doing God’s will though arguably the most dramatic from our point of view.
Sorry the quote is your post when I can’t figure how to do things on this site and just quote the bit about Mary’s reply to the angel
 
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If Mary vowed to be a virgin as a young girl, why was she betrothed in the first place? And is her relationship with Joseph romantic or just purely platonic?

Someone asked me this and I don’t really have a good answer.
There is a 1st century apocryphal document called The Protoevangelium of James which describes Mary’s life in some detail. Although it isn’t an Inspired document, it does serve as a good historical reference. It’s my understanding that in it we find out that Mary is consecrated to the service of the Lord prior to her birth by her mother Anne. However, at some point it became necessary for her to marry for purely protective reasons. She needed someone to provide for her well being. It was understood by the authorities that her marriage was not to be a conventional romantic marriage. Thus it was decided that Joseph would marry her, probably because he was an older man who had already been married and had children. When it becomes apparent that Mary is pregnant, we see Joseph brought before the Temple authorities to give account for this. This is because it was understood by all parties (Mary, Joseph, and the Jewish authorities) that the marriage was to be a celibate one.

In short, Mary was betrothed to Joseph because she was in need of a caretaker and it was understood by all that she was to remain a virgin.
 
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She had to be married to a member of the house of David to satisfy the prophecy fully. Joseph’s line is listed in Matthew 1. Houses pass through the male line not the female as described from Genesis which only lists sons. However because she was only betrothed, ie engaged, technically Jesus was born illegitimate which is why Luke lists Mary’s connection to David which presumably goes through her father’s line.
 
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