Mary and her Virginity

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Oneheartway

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Okay, I want to ask this question at RCIA, but I have been quiet so far. I don’t want this to turn into a free for all as my question about James did in the other thread. So please keep the responses specific to the question if we can.

I understand and have faith that Mary was a virgin mother to Jesus. The church teaches us that she remained a virgin and this seems very important to the church. I am not disagreeing with this, just trying to understand more clearly.

The questions are…
Where in the scripture does it imply that she remained a virgin throughout her life?
Why is it so important that she have remained so?
 
Oneheartway said:
Okay, I want to ask this question at RCIA, but I have been quiet so far. I don’t want this to turn into a free for all as my question about James did in the other thread. So please keep the responses specific to the question if we can.

I understand and have faith that Mary was a virgin mother to Jesus. The church teaches us that she remained a virgin and this seems very important to the church. I am not disagreeing with this, just trying to understand more clearly.

The questions are…
Where in the scripture does it imply that she remained a virgin throughout her life?
Why is it so important that she have remained so?
Click to expand...
Nowhere in Scripture does it say that Mary remained a virgin her whole life nor does it speak to any of the Catholic dogmas regarding Mary. They must admit that these teachings come from their Magisterium and not the Scriptures.

It is important for Catholics to believe that she remained a virgin to be able to balance all of their other beliefs about Mary although Scripture never even hints toward this.
 
Oneheartway said:
The questions are…
Where in the scripture does it imply that she remained a virgin throughout her life?
Why is it so important that she have remained so?
Click to expand...
In your RCIA, you should be learning that Catholic faith is based on Scripture and Tradition as guided by the Holy Spirit. The virginity of Mary comes from traditon, form the very early church fathers. To answer your question, it is not implyed in scriptures which is why protestants abd others alway point to sections that talk about the “brothers” of Jesus.
The doctrine on the virginity of Mary is considered infaliable.

It is important to show the special place and graces that she has from God. It is considered a model for us when we say yes to God totally in our lives. The model of total purity.
In today’s society of free love and sex it may be hard to understand the concept of giving oneself to only one person and to honor one’s self and body. Mary gave herself only and completely to the service of God. Another model of what out lives should try to follow.

Peace, FAB
 
Luke 1:31-35
31 Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
32 He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, 11 and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father,
33 and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."
34 But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?”
35 And the angel said to her in reply, "The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.

The angel Gabriel tells Mary that she WILL conceive and bear a son. In response, Mary, although she is engaged to Joseph, asks how this could be possible, since she has not had relations with a man. In other words, even though Mary is engaged to Joseph, she asks how she will conceive. Gabriel told her that she WILL conceive- that the event will happen in the future. If Mary had intended to have relations with Joseph, the means by which she would conceive the child is obvious.

Clearly, there is no reason for Mary to have asked this unless she had no intention of having relations with Joseph even after they were married. It is not unlikely that Mary had taken a vow of virginity.

Does this make sense?
 
Here is a link that provides links to other threads and topics that appears to adress all of your questions.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=350098

If they are unclear, I would suggest possibly printing them, and taking them to your RCIA class for further clarification.

I know it is hard to get your head around this while in RCIA, I was there myself.

God Bless you on your journey.
 
Sellers1 said:
Nowhere in Scripture does it say that Mary remained a virgin her whole life nor does it speak to any of the Catholic dogmas regarding Mary. They must admit that these teachings come from their Magisterium and not the Scriptures.

It is important for Catholics to believe that she remained a virgin to be able to balance all of their other beliefs about Mary although Scripture never even hints toward this.
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Glory to Jesus Christ!

It comes from the authentic tradition of Traditional Christianity. Not in your Bible nor mine does it tell use that everything which a Christian believes must be found within its pages. Hence, the reason for a Church to discern which is authentic and which is not.

The earliest of the Protestants believed that she remained a virgin her entire life. My question to you: why don’t you believe as they do? :confused:

In Christ,
Andrew
 
Harpazo said:
Glory to Jesus Christ!

It comes from the authentic tradition of Traditional Christianity. Not in your Bible nor mine does it tell use that everything which a Christian believes must be found within its pages. Hence, the reason for a Church to discern which is authentic and which is not.

The earliest of the Protestants believed that she remained a virgin her entire life. My question to you: why don’t you believe as they do? :confused:

In Christ,
Andrew
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That’s not entirely correct. There has always been the debate on this, especially when the Scriptures tell us otherwise.
 
Oneheartway said:
Okay, I want to ask this question at RCIA, but I have been quiet so far. I don’t want this to turn into a free for all as my question about James did in the other thread. So please keep the responses specific to the question if we can.

I understand and have faith that Mary was a virgin mother to Jesus. The church teaches us that she remained a virgin and this seems very important to the church. I am not disagreeing with this, just trying to understand more clearly.

The questions are…
Where in the scripture does it imply that she remained a virgin throughout her life?
Why is it so important that she have remained so?
Click to expand...
I hope you find these two articles helpful:

bringyou.to/apologetics/a82.htm

bringyou.to/apologetics/a27.htm
 
Tim_Kirchoff said:
Luke 1:31-35
31 Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
32 He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, 11 and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father,
33 and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."
34 But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?”
35 And the angel said to her in reply, "The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.

The angel Gabriel tells Mary that she WILL conceive and bear a son. In response, Mary, although she is engaged to Joseph, asks how this could be possible, since she has not had relations with a man. In other words, even though Mary is engaged to Joseph, she asks how she will conceive. Gabriel told her that she WILL conceive- that the event will happen in the future. If Mary had intended to have relations with Joseph, the means by which she would conceive the child is obvious.

Clearly, there is no reason for Mary to have asked this unless she had no intention of having relations with Joseph even after they were married. It is not unlikely that Mary had taken a vow of virginity.

Does this make sense?
Click to expand...
Not in the least. Matthew 1:25 “Joseph had no union with her UNTIL she gave birth to a son.”
 
I think the best way to understand Mary’s virginity is not looking for where the bible says she was but by process of elimination and looking at the early church teachings that have been handed on through tradition. Mary’s virginity was never challenged until i think about 200 years ago. All christians before that, Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox, Believed that she was a virgin her whole life.

catholic.com/library/Brethren_of_the_Lord.asp
catholic.com/library/Mary_Ever_Virgin.asp
 
Sellers1 said:
Not in the least. Matthew 1:25 “Joseph had no union with her UNTIL she gave birth to a son.”
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Until she bore a son: the evangelist is concerned to emphasize that Joseph was not responsible for the conception of Jesus. The Greek word translated “until” does not imply normal marital conduct after Jesus’ birth, nor does it exclude it
 
twopekinguys said:
Until she bore a son: the evangelist is concerned to emphasize that Joseph was not responsible for the conception of Jesus. The Greek word translated “until” does not imply normal marital conduct after Jesus’ birth, nor does it exclude it
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So then, why wouldn’t we conclude that Mary had a natural normal marriage?
 
If I said that I didn’t buy another car until I sold my old one, it wouldn’t make any sense to conclude that I didn’t own another car for the rest of life.
 
Sellers1 said:
If I said that I didn’t buy another car until I sold my old one, it wouldn’t make any sense to conclude that I didn’t own another car for the rest of life.
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I don’t know, maybe you’re a senior citizen, and can no longer drive. Maybe you can’t afford one in this economic state. Maybe you can’t get insurance due to your driving record, etc.

We realize from scripture that Joseph knew that Jesus was the Messiah, and that Mary gave birth to him. Is it not possible that Joseph had such high reverence for the Mother of God that he thought sex with her would be inappropriate?

I think you’ve used a poor analogy for this.
 
Where in the scripture does it imply that she remained a virgin throughout her life?
Why is it so important that she have remained so?
Click to expand...
In Luke 1:30 Gabriel greets Mary as “full of grace”. This term is the biblical equivalent of Immaculate Conception. Mary was holy throughout her life, from conception to the last breath, and, because of her holiness, she could not break any vows.

In Luke 1:34 Mary asks Gabriel how she can have a child if she had no relations with any man, which means she was up to than a virgin and which implies she took a solemn vow of virginity.

In John 19:27 Jesus gives Mary to John for him to take care of her, which means she was a widow and had no children or relatives to take care of her - it was Jewish custom for children and relatives to take care of a mother if her husband died - and which implies she had up to than been faithful to her solemn vow.

Mary is perpetually a virgin and all-holy because she is the New Eve, Mother of God, and a Figure of the Church. Just as Eve was a virgin and holy before the fall, and just as the Ark which contained the tablets of the covenant was unabled to be defiled, and just as the Church of Christ is our Holy Mother, a Virgin and Mother untouched by sin (though her members be sinners), so too, Mary, as the New Eve, as the Mother of God, and as a Figure of the Church is Ever-Virgin and the Immaculate Conception.
 
twopekinguys said:
I don’t know, maybe you’re a senior citizen, and can no longer drive. Maybe you can’t afford one in this economic state. Maybe you can’t get insurance due to your driving record, etc.
Then wouldn’t I have simply said that I didn’t buy another car AFTER I sold the old one? The word UNTIL would have no proper use here in this case. This isn’t rocket science here. You can’t just continue to bend Scripture to fit your doctrine.
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You are entitled to your opinion.
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A thought from the Lutheran side of the tracks –

I don’t have any problem with those who believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity. After all, Luther himself held to that doctrine. I’m open-minded about it but it has no impact on my faith. The Holy Trinity would not be diminished in any way if it were to be proved that Mary did not remain a virgin (not that I expect that to happen).

I will repeat what I have said before in discussions on Marian doctrines. I find it difficult to approach Mary with the devotion that some Catholics approach her. At the same time, I consider her to be the epitome of faith and obedience, a view which is not be dependent on the status of her virginity after the birth of our Lord.
 
twopekinguys said:
But yet, on another thread you state: “I didn’t say that EVERYTHING is included in Scripture”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=350295&page=16

Sorry friend, you cannot have it both ways.
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That’s absolutely right, but what does that have to do with what Scripture DOES explicitly say regarding the fact that Joseph abstained from having union with Mary UNTIL Jesus was born? You can’t declare something to be true when it is contrary to Scripture. You can’t make it up as you go just to fit with you’re already unbiblical doctrines and dogmas.
 
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