Mary and Islam

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Dear Seek Truth

Your quotes made me for the first time have a feeling of understanding why the Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran.

Sometimes, you can see a little child attempting to write something, or presenting you a drawing. You look at it, it does not make any sense whatsever, and yet, you appreciate the effort. You may even kiss the drawing considering what is in the heart.

It is the same thing of Islam attempting to describe Christianity. Sometimes it can look cute when someone does it with good intention.

The Koran got Christianity wrong:
  1. Holy Trinity:
    Christianity is not trying to make God look like man here as the Koran supposes.
    It is acknowledging that man was made in the image of God. A great gift.
    Fathering is not a matter of time, it is a matter of eternity. Father/Child exist always similtaneously. A father does not come first as it is often supposed without deep thought. Father and child exist always together and one can not be without the other they make each other what they are. So begetting is not about creation, it is about loving.
When humans become fathers or sons or holy, they enter into domains that exist already, the domains of God. Just as when we are created, we enter into the domain of Being, which exist already, the domain of God. We inherit from God and by Him from his gifts.

Having said this, being baptized is being brought BACK/saved into the fullness, wholeness of the beginning, of the original intention of God for man

Everything else flows from there. If this is missed, something will go wrong down the road.

God bless
 
nablaise said:
Dear Seek Truth

Your quotes made me for the first time have a feeling of understanding why the Pope John Paul II kissed the Koran.

Sometimes, you can see a little child attempting to write something, or presenting you a drawing. You look at it, it does not make any sense whatsever, and yet, you appreciate the effort. You may even kiss the drawing considering what is in the heart.

It is the same thing of Islam attempting to describe Christianity. Sometimes it can look cute when someone does it with good intention.

The Koran got Christianity wrong:
  1. Holy Trinity:
    Christianity is not trying to make God look like man here as the Koran supposes.
    It is acknowledging that man was made in the image of God. A great gift.
    Fathering is not a matter of time, it is a matter of eternity. Father/Child exist always similtaneously. A father does not come first as it is often supposed without deep thought. Father and child exist always together and one can not be without the other they make each other what they are. So begetting is not about creation, it is about loving.
When humans become fathers or sons or holy, they enter into domains that exist already, the domains of God. Just as when we are created, we enter into the domain of Being, which exist already, the domain of God. We inherit from God and by Him from his gifts.

Having said this, being baptized is being brought BACK/saved into the fullness, wholeness of the beginning, of the original intention of God for man

Everything else flows from there. If this is missed, something will go wrong down the road.

God bless
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I don’t get it when you say << Christianity is not trying to make God look like man here as the Koran supposes. >> Please do quote the Quranic verse first and then try to refute it, perhaps we might understand better what you’re talking about.

as for the second portion of your response where you try to argue that father/child exist simultaneously I guess you’re trying to justify your trinity belief by showing that the ‘son of god’ existed eternaly with ‘God Almighty’ and this is what Allah the Exalted accuses you of, it is attributing to Him partners in Lordship and Worship with Him, while He is the One and Only, the Creator of All, the Lord of all the Worlds.

We insist that the term “Son of God” cannot have a literal interpretation. Sonship and divine nature would be necessary attributes of such an actuality, but these are incompatible. The first describes a recipient of life while the second describes One who received life from no one. These are mutually exclusive requirements then. To be a son is to be less than divine, and to be divine is to be no one’s son.

By the way, many people prior to Jesus’s mention in the Bible were called ‘‘son of god’’ (I know you know that), the point is that the term ‘son of God’ means nothing more than ‘servant of God’ or at least this is how it has always been undertood by the Jewish people and even by Christians, since you refer to yourselves as ‘sons of god’ …however, you don’t mean it literraly but rather in a metaphorical way sort of to say you’re a ‘servant of God’ and that you commit yourself to live life in a way that pleases Him, by doing His Will and working in His service.

Back to Jesus (pbuh) may I ask you how come the first time the title ‘son of god’ is being attributed to Jesus isnt in Genesis ? I mean if you believe in his preexistence and if you believe he lived eternally … how come god himself (as you believe) doesnt even make any mention of a son of his whos name is Jesus ? the first time the title ‘son of god’ is being attributed to Jesus (pbuh) is in the account of Luc and it used in order to decrib the miraculous birth of this wonderfoul man, this prophet of God Almighty … it was used kind of to say, this man is special and beacause he is born in a special way, in a Miraculous way, it must be a sign of God Almighty and this man whoever he is must be a ‘servant of God’ … the term ‘son of god’ was never meant to say that which you try to make it say…

Wassalam Alaikum
 
Abu_Toshiba said:
I don’t get it when you say << Christianity is not trying to make God look like man here as the Koran supposes. >> Please do quote the Quranic verse first and then try to refute it, perhaps we might understand better what you’re talking about.

as for the second portion of your response where you try to argue that father/child exist simultaneously I guess you’re trying to justify your trinity belief by showing that the ‘son of god’ existed eternaly with ‘God Almighty’ and this is what Allah the Exalted accuses you of, it is attributing to Him partners in Lordship and Worship with Him, while He is the One and Only, the Creator of All, the Lord of all the Worlds.

We insist that the term “Son of God” cannot have a literal interpretation. Sonship and divine nature would be necessary attributes of such an actuality, but these are incompatible. The first describes a recipient of life while the second describes One who received life from no one. These are mutually exclusive requirements then. To be a son is to be less than divine, and to be divine is to be no one’s son.

By the way, many people prior to Jesus’s mention in the Bible were called ‘‘son of god’’ (I know you know that), the point is that the term ‘son of God’ means nothing more than ‘servant of God’ or at least this is how it has always been undertood by the Jewish people and even by Christians, since you refer to yourselves as ‘sons of god’ …however, you don’t mean it literraly but rather in a metaphorical way sort of to say you’re a ‘servant of God’ and that you commit yourself to live life in a way that pleases Him, by doing His Will and working in His service.

Back to Jesus (pbuh) may I ask you how come the first time the title ‘son of god’ is being attributed to Jesus isnt in Genesis ? I mean if you believe in his preexistence and if you believe he lived eternally … how come god himself (as you believe) doesnt even make any mention of a son of his whos name is Jesus ? the first time the title ‘son of god’ is being attributed to Jesus (pbuh) is in the account of Luc and it used in order to decrib the miraculous birth of this wonderfoul man, this prophet of God Almighty … it was used kind of to say, this man is special and beacause he is born in a special way, in a Miraculous way, it must be a sign of God Almighty and this man whoever he is must be a ‘servant of God’ … the term ‘son of god’ was never meant to say that which you try to make it say…

Wassalam Alaikum
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Hi Toshiba

You don’t look with the eyes of love. Otherwise you will see that father and son are always one being. If they are divided in man, it is because of the wound of sin. It is failure of integrity. That is not what is supposed to happen. They are one being. And God is perfect and he created perfect things. In Genesis, God made one man, however this man is described as male and female, in other words fatherhood, motherhood, and sonship are within this one man. And this one man is described as being created in the image of God. That is in the image of his integrity; in the image of his love.

When the Church says that God is one she is speaking in terms of holiness, sin, divisions, love, hatred, conflicts. Saying that God is One is same as saying that God is Holy, that God is perfect integrity, that God is all good, same as saying that God is love and saying that God is truth. It is a call to human integrity for Faith is for man not for God. It is a call to love, for faith is about love and love preserve unity and therefore integrity. It is a call to humanity to become One and Holy as God, for no one can endure in the presence of God without being like Him. And all this is not metaphor, or dreamy musings, it is reality.

About the Quranic quores, I think the Seek Truth has provided enough…

God bless
 
Thank you to everyone who posted here. I learned quite a bit. Peace be with and upon you.

As I have said before. I think understanding each other’s faith can bring about respect and friendship. No more “us versus them.” Too much of this has already happened in the past.
 
Inishfree said:
Thank you to everyone who posted here. I learned quite a bit. Peace be with and upon you.

As I have said before. I think understanding each other’s faith can bring about respect and friendship. No more “us versus them.” Too much of this has already happened in the past.
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Does this sound respectful?
098.006 Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.

There are many verses like this in the Quran.

I do not disrespect Muslims. **They are fellow humans loved by GOD and they are caught in a horrible cult **but I find it difficult to respect a religion that is so hateful and degrades all but those who follow it.
 
schaick said:
I do not disrespect Muslims. **They are fellow humans loved by GOD and they are caught in a horrible cult **but I find it difficult to respect a religion that is so hateful and degrades all but those who follow it.
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I hear you. In light of the events unfolding in the middle east, compounded by the statements of radical Islam to unite all Islamic Countrys, how this plays out has to be a concern.

But there are certainly children of God caught in the turmoil.

God Bless, Gary
 
it is interesting to note that both muslims and catholics have connection to mary or fatima. i first heard of this a minister perry stone. he has some interesting commentary here about future events and bible prophecy
 
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