Mary and Original Sin

[hasantas]

Shortly: Nobody born sinful.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Shortly: Nobody born sinful.

Why would a sincere, rational person attempt to make a contribution on a Catholic run Forum with an assertion that clearly contradicts Catholic teaching?

If you are really just asking a question to better understand the Catholic position - perhaps it would be better to actually do that rather than just present a bald denial of Catholic dogma.

 

[setarcos]

Greetings my fellow traveler on Gods highway. I am sorry I haven’t been prompt with my response. Time will tell if you have moved on to other important things.

James248:

Interesting. We recall Jesus saying, “Not My will but Thine be done.” Hardly a yes given that logic.
While Mary may have thought Jesus was going to be a conquering King at first, she came to understanding and faith. Recall Joseph’s dream in which the Angel said that Jesus would save His people from their sins. Surely Joseph would have related this to Mary. Being immaculately conceived doesn’t necessitate perfect knowledge.

“Not my will but Thine be done.” Following my so called logic applied to Mary could we say by the same account that Jesus is accepting his fate but not choosing his fate? Jesus it must be agreed is a special character with a special nature and destiny apart from all others, including Mary. Recall that Jesus said that it wasn’t his will that his fate be sealed in this way. Recall also that he asked if there were any other way, implying if there were he would have chosen it instead. The logic is sound. The “yes” answer applied to Jesus is not a volitional yes. It is an acceptance of a decision made for him. With Mary the context is clear, there wasn’t even a question asked by the Angel. Mary’s answer was hope in the messages truth. Incidentally implying she had a shade of doubt within her. One does not hope for a future that is assured. One prepares. Josephs dream itself implies no agony for the future of his family. The concept of a crucified savior was not understood at this time by his culture. Any information he would have given to Mary would only have reinforced the message already given to her. This was that her families’ future was to be immensely joyous. It could be argued that Mary didn’t understand the nature of Jesus’s mission or his ultimate fate clear up until the crucifixion itself.

That point is entirely why the authors of the NT didn’t talk of Mary that much: they were more concered with battling misunderstandings about Jesus.

Considering the nature of the relationship between Mary and Jesus built up by the Church over the centuries, if any of this were a part of the message delivered by the apostles then any so called battle of misunderstanding about Jesus would have inevitably involved a misunderstanding about Mary and been mentioned. Witness the misunderstandings about her generated and mentioned as soon as a mythos started being created about her leading up to the declaration of Dogmas concerning her. If these things were existent in the beginning they surely would have been discussed. Any misunderstanding of Jesus is a misunderstanding of his origins and thus a misunderstanding of Mary.

Remember Jesus even had fear. The Agony in the Garden comes to mind.

Jesus is quite the unique individual, obviously. He is to be the sacrificial lamb. He is to take away the sins of the world. How is it then that a sinless, pure soul should feel fear in his case? We are witness to his unique nature here. A nature no other existent entity has. Witness John’s testimony. He asks Jesus why he needs to be baptized. Jesus says it is necessary to fulfill all righteousness. Jesus didn’t need the baptism he was a pure soul. Never the less it was necessary. In order that the lamb be prepared for sacrifice the lamb had to take on the full nature of man, but more than this the lamb had to experience the nature of fallen man in order that sin be destroyed. Witness the fact that in order to conquer death Jesus had to die. Death is most definitely a consequence of sin. A sinless soul should not die. Yet Jesus had to. This is why Jesus is wholly unique in his nature. Though pure and sinless in nature he had to experience the consequence of sin to conquer it. This is why it was necessary for Jesus to feel fear. Mary on the other hand hasn’t the nature of the sacrificial lamb. She is not the sacrifice to take away sin. Mary if immaculate should have been incapable of fearing anything. A pure soul feels no fear. Why would it? Fear is a consequent of sin. Like Doctors are a consequent of sickness. No sin, no fear. No sickness, no Doctors. In our sickness Doctors are necessary. In our sin, fear is necessary.
May your day be full of the Joys of knowing God.

 

[setarcos]

This post is in need of moderator review.

My dear Don,
I would so love to discuss your thoughts about my thoughts. If you could possibly be humble enough to have discourse with an informally theologically educated individual I would so enjoy it.
May God keep you in peace.