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workingman
Guest
I have a need to know question. I have been studing the Catholic Church and I am confused on if Mary was born without original sin. Can any one clairify this for me. I am sorry if this has been hashed and rehased. 
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The_Fool
Guest
Well, according to the Catechism:
411 The Christian tradition sees in this passage an announcement of the “New Adam” who, because he “became obedient unto death, even death on a cross”, makes amends superabundantly for the disobedience, of Adam.305 Furthermore many Fathers and Doctors of the Church have seen the woman announced in the Protoevangelium as Mary, the mother of Christ, the “new Eve”. Mary benefited first of all and uniquely from Christ’s victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.306
305 1 cor 15:21-22; Phil 2:8; Rom 5:19-20
306 Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus; DS 2803; Council of Trent: DS 1573
Oh, DS is Enchiridion symbolorum, definitionum et declarationum de rebus fidei et orum (1965). I really don’t know what exactly it is though. Should this be in apologetics?
411 The Christian tradition sees in this passage an announcement of the “New Adam” who, because he “became obedient unto death, even death on a cross”, makes amends superabundantly for the disobedience, of Adam.305 Furthermore many Fathers and Doctors of the Church have seen the woman announced in the Protoevangelium as Mary, the mother of Christ, the “new Eve”. Mary benefited first of all and uniquely from Christ’s victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.306
305 1 cor 15:21-22; Phil 2:8; Rom 5:19-20
306 Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus; DS 2803; Council of Trent: DS 1573
Oh, DS is Enchiridion symbolorum, definitionum et declarationum de rebus fidei et orum (1965). I really don’t know what exactly it is though. Should this be in apologetics?
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Rocky
Guest
What is original sin? It is being born into the human condition —
Human beings are made in the image and likeness of God, but because our first parents were unable to pass on this image and likeness to us unscarred, we are born with a tendency (I would say a strong tendency) to have our own way and sin—
Babies are not born with personal sin— but as they grow they early on, much before the age of reason, demand their own way—
The Church teaches that Mary, having been chosen by God to be the mother of His own Son, before she was ever conceived in the womb of her mother (St. Anne) was saved from Original Sin (this tendency) by the merits of her Son, not by anything she did.
This is not to say that she was never tempted. I believe she was. I certainly would have cried out at the crucifixion that this was unjust, take my son down!! But Mary did not. Unlike Eve who chose to go against God in the Garden, Mary chose to accept whatever God gave to her throughout her whole life, and praised Him for being the powerful God that He is.
Human beings are made in the image and likeness of God, but because our first parents were unable to pass on this image and likeness to us unscarred, we are born with a tendency (I would say a strong tendency) to have our own way and sin—
Babies are not born with personal sin— but as they grow they early on, much before the age of reason, demand their own way—
The Church teaches that Mary, having been chosen by God to be the mother of His own Son, before she was ever conceived in the womb of her mother (St. Anne) was saved from Original Sin (this tendency) by the merits of her Son, not by anything she did.
This is not to say that she was never tempted. I believe she was. I certainly would have cried out at the crucifixion that this was unjust, take my son down!! But Mary did not. Unlike Eve who chose to go against God in the Garden, Mary chose to accept whatever God gave to her throughout her whole life, and praised Him for being the powerful God that He is.
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workingman
Guest
I got a little lost in your explanation. Is there a way to transfer this to apologetics?
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The_Fool
Guest
My sincerest apologies, workingman. I suppose I should have focused on what was important and explained far better than I did. All the number stuff was reference anyway. “Mary benefited first of all and uniquely from Christ’s victory over sin: she was preserved from all stain of original sin and by a special grace of God committed no sin of any kind during her whole earthly life.” I assume you are asking, in Catholic thought, was Mary born without original sin. The above should have in bold that she was preserved from all stain of original sin, which means, yes, she was born without original sin. If you are asking the thought process that developed that answer, it is something else.
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workingman
Guest
yes.
Yes human nature.
So Mary was subject to original sin, but God interviened before she was rolled in the proververbilal manure pile. Am I on the right track so far.
St. Anne saved fom original sin?
Amen to her strength.
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Rocky
Guest
Catholic teaching does not include St Anne as being preserved from Original Sin.
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workingman
Guest
Thank you for the break down. I did’t think St. Anne was taugh to be preserved. Maby I missunderstood somthing earlier. I found this explanation also on a explanation of Mary being with out sin. Here is the link. Do you think this is an agreeable explanation
scripturecatholic.com/mary_qa.html#allhavesinned
Slowly coming to love the Catholic Church and our blessed Mothe more and more.
scripturecatholic.com/mary_qa.html#allhavesinned
Slowly coming to love the Catholic Church and our blessed Mothe more and more.
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NDfan
Guest
No that is a gross misinterpretation of Luke. If Mary was sinless then so were the Ephesians. The Orthodox don’t believe in the Immaculate Conception and many church fathers claimed she in fact was a sinner.I have a need to know question. I have been studing the Catholic Church and I am confused on if Mary was born without original sin. Can any one clairify this for me. I am sorry if this has been hashed and rehased.
Ask yourself this. Why did Jesus die for us?? Because HE was the perfect final sacrificial Lamb. Jesus never committed a sin which is why HE was able to be that final sacrifice. If Mary was sinless then she would have been able to be that sacrifice. But she wasn’t so she therefore was a sinner. Scripture also tells us the wages of sin are death. If Mary never sinned then why isn’t she still alive today?? She died of natural causes presumably so she therefore was a sinner. I mean no disrespect to Mary or anyone as she is the perfect role model. But we get into dangerous territory when we start applying titles and giving special status to those that scripture does not.
PEACE
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Rocky
Guest
It seems to be a good explanation for the question that was put forward.
I, too, love the Catholic Church and am grateful that I was baptized as an infant into the Church, and thank God for the many graces that I have received throughout the years.
God bless you, Workingman.
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workingman
Guest
Specific what part of Luke.
Which church fathers?
Ask yourself this.
Because I am a pathetic siner
No she still could not have been that sacrifice. Mary is not God (Jesus is God trinity)
Death is a human condition. NO human is imaortal. Second argument would be Mary did not dye and that she was body and soul assumed into heaven,
Mary is most definatly a perfect role model. But I do not subscribe to SS.
PEACE
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deb1
Guest
I don’t know if this will make sense or not. I’ve tried to cover this issue on my blog but I don’t know if I did a good job.
God does not change, he is the same today as he was yesterday. In the Old Testament, the Ark had to be made a certain way for God. When an unauthorized man, to simply keep the ark from tumbling to the ground, reached out his hand to touch it, he dropped dead.
God obviously cares about the state of the vessel which carries him.
Jesus is God made flesh, the Incarnate. He can’t be seperated out into divisions of flesh and spirit. He is ONE.
Mary was free from original sin in order to glorify Jesus, who is The Incarnate, not herself. Some people get confused and think that Catholics are elevating Mary by making her free from original sin but in reality it is Jesus that we are honoring. Because Jesus is God, he needed a sinless Ark to carry him. That is why it is not neccesary for Mary’s mother to be sinless. Its all about Jesus.
God does not change, he is the same today as he was yesterday. In the Old Testament, the Ark had to be made a certain way for God. When an unauthorized man, to simply keep the ark from tumbling to the ground, reached out his hand to touch it, he dropped dead.
God obviously cares about the state of the vessel which carries him.
Jesus is God made flesh, the Incarnate. He can’t be seperated out into divisions of flesh and spirit. He is ONE.
Mary was free from original sin in order to glorify Jesus, who is The Incarnate, not herself. Some people get confused and think that Catholics are elevating Mary by making her free from original sin but in reality it is Jesus that we are honoring. Because Jesus is God, he needed a sinless Ark to carry him. That is why it is not neccesary for Mary’s mother to be sinless. Its all about Jesus.
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deb1
Guest
Mary is alive with her son in heaven. So, this point of yours confuses me.
Mary was saved from the taint of original sin by her son. So, she needed a savior just like everyone else. Unlike everyone, she was saved prior to her birth.
Some people believe that Mary was assumed into heaven before her death. I don’t know myself but it is interesting that there is no tomb or relics for such an important individual.
I think that where Protestants get confused is that they think that Catholics are elevating Mary when we are really pointing out that Jesus is God and man combined. That is why Mary had to be sinless, not for her glory but Christ’s.
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workingman
Guest
Yes that does seem to help some. Thank you.I don’t know if this will make sense or not. I’ve tried to cover this issue on my blog but I don’t know if I did a good job.
God does not change, he is the same today as he was yesterday. In the Old Testament, the Ark had to be made a certain way for God. When an unauthorized man, to simply keep the ark from tumbling to the ground, reached out his hand to touch it, he dropped dead.
God obviously cares about the state of the vessel which carries him.
Jesus is God made flesh, the Incarnate. He can’t be seperated out into divisions of flesh and spirit. He is ONE.
Mary was free from original sin in order to glorify Jesus, who is The Incarnate, not herself. Some people get confused and think that Catholics are elevating Mary by making her free from original sin but in reality it is Jesus that we are honoring. Because Jesus is God, he needed a sinless Ark to carry him. That is why it is not neccesary for Mary’s mother to be sinless. Its all about Jesus.
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