Mary and sin

[blessings123]

I have some protestant friends who object to Mary being sinless. The usual root I try is that it was fitting and her being named full of grace by Gabriel and how being full of sanctifying grace at least implies her sinlessness. If you’re full of this grace I dont see how there can be any room for sin. I dont mind if anyone wants to help me fine tune this. I am sure it is gaping with holes.

Now, to the thought i recently had and the purpose of this post. Nothing unclean can enter heaven, right? I thought about how God entered the womb of the virgin Mary, wouldn’t this also mean heaven entered her? Not sure if this is accurate. So when a protestant asks, why did Mary have to be sinless? How about the fact that heaven entered her womb, and if nothing unclean can enter it, wouldn’t the same go for heaven entering her? This could be way off, I apologize ahead of time if I am.

God Bless you all!

 

[Chipper]

I have some protestant friends who object to Mary being sinless.

I think almost every protestant I argue with objects to Mary being sinless. In fact I think they are scared to death about this.

The usual root I try is that it was fitting and her being named full of grace by Gabriel and how being full of sanctifying grace at least implies her sinlessness. If you’re full of this grace I dont see how there can be any room for sin. I dont mind if anyone wants to help me fine tune this. I am sure it is gaping with holes.

Now, to the thought i recently had and the purpose of this post. Nothing unclean can enter heaven, right? I thought about how God entered the womb of the virgin Mary, wouldn’t this also mean heaven entered her? Not sure if this is accurate. So when a protestant asks, why did Mary have to be sinless? How about the fact that heaven entered her womb, and if nothing unclean can enter it, wouldn’t the same go for heaven entering her? This could be way off, I apologize ahead of time if I am.

God Bless you all!

God Bless you too. I personally think your analogy is excellent. I used to tell people about the apple and the tree. That is if you want a “perfect” apple, then first look for a “perfect” tree. Otherwise you’re just waisting time.

Regards,
Calvin

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I agree with your first paragraph.

Your second paragraph is a bit iffy. :ehh:

But I suppose it was our sin that caused Jesus to suffer, and not Mary’s. So, maybe your second paragraph does have merit.

 

[blessings123]

I think almost every protestant I argue with objects to Mary being sinless. In fact I think they are scared to death about this.

God Bless you too. I personally think your analogy is excellent. I used to tell people about the apple and the tree. That is if you want a “perfect” apple, then first look for a “perfect” tree. Otherwise you’re just waisting time.

Regards,
Calvin

Hi calvin, can I call you that?

Thank you for your response, I wasnt sure I would get one tonight. So, it isnt inaccurate to say heaven enter her? Sorry to repeat the question. I guess i can picture my friends saying, well if heaven entered her, then what about the angels or if heaven was in her then it wasnt anywhere else? Sometimes they can take things soo literal, when they want to that is.

Or i guess they could even say when Jesus enters them when they accept him and believe in him, then heaven too enters them. I can see them trying this, but maybe not. Not sure.

I have some thoughts now about the Eucharist, but I think I’ll say it for tomorrow. Dont want to get into to many things at once.

Again, thank you and God Bless.

Sorry if this is getting confusing.

 

[blessings123]

I agree with your first paragraph.

Your second paragraph is a bit iffy. :ehh:

But I suppose it was our sin that caused Jesus to suffer, and not Mary’s. So, maybe your second paragraph does have merit.

Hi CZ,

Thank you for responding.

I am not sure what you mean by , and not Mary’s sin.

And i am wondering if it is accurate to say God=heaven entered Mary’s womb.

Seems right, but then maybe not.

God Bless you

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… I am not sure what you mean by , and not Mary’s sin…

Maybe I should have said “Mary’s original sin.”

Adam and Eve lost their sanctifying grace, and thus we could not inherit it from them. Instead, we inherited the stain of original sin. But I think the Immaculate Conception, Mary, did not have the stain of original sin. Therefore, Jesus could not have the stain of original sin, and consequently, it was our sin that crucified Him.

I’m thinking too much now… I just thought of the Protestant argument; Why couldn’t Jesus be conceived immaculately? So maybe your theory about the womb and God=Heaven does have alot of merit. Oh now, my head is hurting again…

And i am wondering if it is accurate to say God=heaven entered Mary’s womb.

I don’t know. I’ll have to let somebody else answer that.

 

[Chipper]

Hi calvin, can I call you that?
.

Howdy. and oooooppppss a slip up. My name is actually Calvin, and my nickname since I was 6 months old is Chip. I don’t usually use my Calvin name on this board, since it tends to confuse us Catholics. But you may call me Calvin. I use it everyday.

Thank you for your response, I wasnt sure I would get one tonight. So, it isnt inaccurate to say heaven enter her? Sorry to repeat the question. I guess i can picture my friends saying, well if heaven entered her, then what about the angels or if heaven was in her then it wasnt anywhere else? Sometimes they can take things soo literal, when they want to that is.

Or i guess they could even say when Jesus enters them when they accept him and believe in him, then heaven too enters them. I can see them trying this, but maybe not. Not sure.

I have some thoughts now about the Eucharist, but I think I’ll say it for tomorrow. Dont want to get into to many things at once.

Again, thank you and God Bless.

Sorry if this is getting confusing.

Something happened to my original response to this, it just disappeared. So here it comes again.

I personally don’t see a problem with what you are saying. Think of it this way, wherever God is there is heaven. Case in point. Jesus would tell people that “the kingdom of heaven is upon you now”. Perhaps what he is saying is, that wherever I (God) am, I am, there is heaven. So ya, if God is there, heaven is there too.

Regards,
Chipper (alias Calvin)

 

[blessings123]

Maybe I should have said “Mary’s original sin.”

Adam and Eve lost their sanctifying grace, and thus we could not inherit it from them. Instead, we inherited the stain of original sin. But I think the Immaculate Conception, Mary, did not have the stain of original sin. Therefore, Jesus could not have the stain of original sin, and consequently, it was our sin that crucified Him.

I’m thinking too much now… I just thought of the Protestant argument; Why couldn’t Jesus be conceived immaculately? So maybe your theory about the womb and God=Heaven does have alot of merit. Oh now, my head is hurting again…

I don’t know. I’ll have to let somebody else answer that.

Ok, I got ya now.

My head is hurting too. LOL…

Thank you.

 

[blessings123]

Howdy. and oooooppppss a slip up. My name is actually Calvin, and my nickname since I was 6 months old is Chip. I don’t usually use my Calvin name on this board, since it tends to confuse us Catholics. But you may call me Calvin. I use it everyday.

Something happened to my original response to this, it just disappeared. So here it comes again.

I personally don’t see a problem with what you are saying. Think of it this way, wherever God is there is heaven. Case in point. Jesus would tell people that “the kingdom of heaven is upon you now”. Perhaps what he is saying is, that wherever I (God) am, I am, there is heaven. So ya, if God is there, heaven is there too.

Regards,
Chipper (alias Calvin)

Hi, I like Chip too. So I will use this. For forum sake.

Ok, I thought about this too. God doesnt leave heaven. Where he is there heaven is too, I agree.

I am sure my friends will have some way of minimizing it, but just thought I would get some ammo before I tried it.

God Bless

and I really need to go to bed. 4:30 will come fast. ugh.