Mary and the Holy Spirit

[Familyman87]

Is it proper to invite Mary to be present to a prayerful gathering of people in the same way one would invite the Holy Spirit to be present? Does Mary have the same gifts as the Holy Spirit if one considers she is acting through Jesus? Thanks.

 

[awke]

No and no. Mary is not God.

 

[Sandraaustin]

You can ask the Blessed Mother to intercede for you, to watch over you, to pray for you, etc., but she isn’t divine in nature. Whatever you want to ask from the Holy Spirit, you can ask Mother Mary to intercede for you.

 

[twf]

Our Lady is not God but She shares in His divine life more perfectly than any other creature. Her intercession is most powerful and Her union with the Holy Spirit is beyond that of any other saint. Certainly we can ask Our Lady to ask the Holy Spirit to be among us.

Come Holy Spirit, come by means of the most powerful intercession of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, your well beloved spouse.

 

[Dodge_pursuit]

No offense but why must we “ask Mary to ask Him?”

According to scripture, we are temples of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives us the ability to pray to God and call God “Abba, father.” The Spirit guides us and powers our witness. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. As believers, we ought to be pretty close to Him.

Why wouldn’t we ask Him, think about Him, invite Him, ourselves?

Just saying. I understand intercession- just like asking a buddy to pray for you except the buddy is in heaven. But let’s not make things more complicated, right?

 

[twf]

No offense but why must we “ask Mary to ask Him?”

According to scripture, we are temples of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives us the ability to pray to God and call God “Abba, father.” The Spirit guides us and powers our witness. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. As believers, we ought to be pretty close to Him.

Why wouldn’t we ask Him, think about Him, invite Him, ourselves?

Just saying. I understand intercession- just like asking a buddy to pray for you except the buddy is in heaven. But let’s not make things more complicated, right?

We certainly can and should…but it is also to our profit to ask Our Lady as Her relationship with the Holy Spirit is far more intimate, far more profound, far more sublime than ours and Her intercession can obtain for us graces we will not obtain otherwise. God has willed that we obtain many graces only through the intercession of the heavenly mother He has given us.

 

[cena]

No offense but why must we “ask Mary to ask Him?”

According to scripture, we are temples of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives us the ability to pray to God and call God “Abba, father.” The Spirit guides us and powers our witness. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. As believers, we ought to be pretty close to Him.

Why wouldn’t we ask Him, think about Him, invite Him, ourselves?

Just saying. I understand intercession- just like asking a buddy to pray for you except the buddy is in heaven. But let’s not make things more complicated, right?

Mary is above all the creatures, even all the angels, God is more likely to answer to her requests than anyone else’s

 

[Familyman87]

Excellent responses. I raise the question after attending a Marian Seminar in which a priest whom I respect invited Mary to “come and be present to us”. I’m not entirely comfortable with that type of language. That’s a prayer I would reserve for the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sandraaustin]

No offense but why must we “ask Mary to ask Him?”

According to scripture, we are temples of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives us the ability to pray to God and call God “Abba, father.” The Spirit guides us and powers our witness. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. As believers, we ought to be pretty close to Him.

Why wouldn’t we ask Him, think about Him, invite Him, ourselves?

Just saying. I understand intercession- just like asking a buddy to pray for you except the buddy is in heaven. But let’s not make things more complicated, right?

I hear you and I see it as less complicated, not more, to ask the Blessed Mother to intercede for me. I don’t presume to be worthy to speak to the King, for I am nothing. I know He loves Me but I also can’t forget Who He is–the Almighty, the Creator, Alpha and Omega!

It’s too much for me to comprehend. Is not fear of the Lord a gift of the Holy Spirit? But I can ask my “Mom” for anything without fear. Say you want a favor from the king. You can ask the king himself, but how does an ordinary person get close to the king? You could ask from a distance, maybe by sending a letter, which may or may not be heard. You can ask your buddy who’s also one of the king’s many buddies to ask the king for you, this is akin to asking a Saint. Or most efficacious of all, you can ask his one and only mother, who’s accessible to all of us, for she is our mother too.

I was Protestant for 20 years and this helped me the most to understand Mary’s unique role as intercessor: In Jewish history, every king had many wives–so which wife is queen? None of them, the king’s mother was always the queen. So if you believe Jesus is the King of Heaven, then His Mother Mary is the Queen of Heaven. Jesus can refuse nothing to His Mother.

Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.

 

[TK421]

Doctors of the Church have described Mary’s prayers as being “omnipotent”. This is because her will is aligned with God’s will. When Jesus said “Ask, and you shall receive” he was being completely literal. If a $300,000 corvette was beneficial for your salvation and for your sanctification, you could ask for it, and Jesus would give it to you. You could ask to toss supernovas around in your fingertips, and Jesus would grant it. Mary - who, by herself, is nothing - has direct access to all the infinite powers of Heaven. You can ask Mary to be present with you, and she will be there. It is officially taught that when you attend a Mass, the hosts of Heaven are present with you in the sanctuary. “The Communion of Saints” includes everybody on Earth, in purgatory, and in Heaven.

You typically wouldn’t ask for somebody’s presence, since this presence is granted the instant you invoke the Sign of the Cross, but if you feel drawn to say it out loud as a sign of your affection, you can. Exterior actions do matter.

 

[Dodge_pursuit]

I hear you and I see it as less complicated, not more, to ask the Blessed Mother to intercede for me. I don’t presume to be worthy to speak to the King, for I am nothing. I know He loves Me but I also can’t forget Who He is–the Almighty, the Creator, Alpha and Omega!

I hear you too but, we really must read our bibles.

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (Heb 4)

Am I worthy? On my own, no way! But that’s the point of the cross- making unworthy screw-ups able to approach the throne of God who is now their father!

*Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— * (John 1)

The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” (Romans 8)

God bless you!

 

[Sandraaustin]

I hear you too but, we really must read our bibles.

Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin. Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (Heb 4)

Am I worthy? On my own, no way! But that’s the point of the cross- making unworthy screw-ups able to approach the throne of God who is now their father!

*Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— * (John 1)

The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” (Romans 8)

God bless you!

I do read my Bible and can also throw back verses, but for what good? Like I said, for me, I accept being an unworthy servant.

Is it possible I think too highly of GOD? I doubt it. I know I am loved and a child of God, but I don’t presume to enter the presence of the Almighty AS I AM, maybe after I achieve sainthood LOL.

But Mary, humble human not divine, has the ear of God. My momma wears combat boots!

 

[TK421]

No offense but why must we “ask Mary to ask Him?”

According to scripture, we are temples of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives us the ability to pray to God and call God “Abba, father.” The Spirit guides us and powers our witness. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. As believers, we ought to be pretty close to Him.

Why wouldn’t we ask Him, think about Him, invite Him, ourselves?

Just saying. I understand intercession- just like asking a buddy to pray for you except the buddy is in heaven. But let’s not make things more complicated, right?

We have demonstrable proof that this isn’t what God wants. Why did God have Moses? Why does he have prophets? Why does he have preachers? Why does he have our Mother? Why does he have all of these supposedly useless “middle men”? Also, when Tobit prayed for divine aid, God sent Raphael. What’s the point of these ministering spirits anyway? Why did Gabriel make the Annunciation to Mary? Why did Michael battle Satan Scratch all of that and ask a more fundamental questions: why did God choose to create something, instead of creating nothing?

 

[clem456]

No offense but why must we “ask Mary to ask Him?”

According to scripture, we are temples of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives us the ability to pray to God and call God “Abba, father.” The Spirit guides us and powers our witness. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. As believers, we ought to be pretty close to Him.

Why wouldn’t we ask Him, think about Him, invite Him, ourselves?

Just saying. I understand intercession- just like asking a buddy to pray for you except the buddy is in heaven. But let’s not make things more complicated, right?

It’s not a matter of “must” ask Mary, as in “you are required”.
And it’s not an either/or proposition…either I pray to Jesus or the Holy Spirit exclusively or I’m not truly praying.
No, in God’s economy, grace abounds. It is pleasing to God that we take comfort from, and progress in virtues with, all the saints who live in God’s grace.

We do not know Jesus in an exclusively personal way. We can say our relationship with Christ is personal, as Jesus is a divine person, and we are persons,

but, we live in community with him and the whole Church, the Communion of Saints. We all relate to one another. We don’t simply live in a one to one relationship with Christ as though others are excluded or are merely incidental. We can petition Christ and the Holy Spirit, but we should not assume the Holy Spirit works exclusively in the relationship between God-individual. The Holy Spirit has obviously worked wondrous grace in a unique way through Mary. Her grace benefits all of us. As the first disciple and mother of the Church, Mary has a unique relationship with Christ. I want to know Christ better in the way she knows him. I don’t know about anyone else, but I need her help. I pray with Mary because she exemplifies the virtues that I need.

 

[Dodge_pursuit]

Over and over again, I have seen Catholics suffering because they simply will not cry out to Jesus, all by themselves, and be converted. There, I said it.

Saints, intercession, rosary, novenas… all awesome things. None can replace knowing Jesus Christ and sharing your life with him. I see folks buying a medal, burying a statue, lighting a candle, getting a scapular… you name it… and wondering why they don’t seem to know God.

If I was to suggest they simply close their eyes and talk to Jesus… they look at me like I have two heads. “But I want to sell my house. Don’t I need a little statue?” I guess that’s why I get upset.

This is why evangelicals say things like: *Catholics worship Mary, Catholics are superstitious, Catholics don’t know Jesus, Catholics don’t read their bibles. *

Obviously I’m not going to change minds here. I’m just hoping no one is using the communion of saints as a curtain to hide behind, instead of a ladder to climb upon.

With my love and prayers… Happy New Year to all!

 

[Sandraaustin]

Over and over again, I have seen Catholics suffering because they simply will not cry out to Jesus, all by themselves, and be converted. There, I said it.

Saints, intercession, rosary, novenas… all awesome things. None can replace knowing Jesus Christ and sharing your life with him. I see folks buying a medal, burying a statue, lighting a candle, getting a scapular… you name it… and wondering why they don’t seem to know God.

If I was to suggest they simply close their eyes and talk to Jesus… they look at me like I have two heads. “But I want to sell my house. Don’t I need a little statue?” I guess that’s why I get upset.

This is why evangelicals say things like: *Catholics worship Mary, Catholics are superstitious, Catholics don’t know Jesus, Catholics don’t read their bibles. *

Obviously I’m not going to change minds here. I’m just hoping no one is using the communion of saints as a curtain to hide behind, instead of a ladder to climb upon.

With my love and prayers… Happy New Year to all!

Happy New Year to you, too.

I’m wondering why you want to “change minds” regarding our beautiful Marian traditions, and what I am supposed to be “converted” to when I cry out to Jesus. You identify as Catholic, but you hope no one hides behind the curtain of the communion of saints…these comments sound odd to me, coming from a Catholic. The OP question was about Mary and the Holy Spirit, hence the Marian answers.

Like most Catholics, of course I talk to Jesus. I love Him! I ask Mother Mary for everything I need and I put all my intentions in her immaculate hands and I also talk to Jesus every single night and in my morning offering. Just because I pray the rosary and have devotion to Mary doesn’t mean I don’t also talk to Jesus. I am privileged to receive Jesus in His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity every time I go to Communion! I’m not worthy, but He only says the word and my soul is healed.

 

[Dodge_pursuit]

*“Brothers and sisters: today, Ash Wednesday, begins the Lenten itinerary that leads us to the celebration of the Easter Triduum, a memorial of our salvation,” the Pope said in March 5.

“Lent,” he affirmed during his weekly address, “is a ‘strong’ time of conversion,” and a time “to live our baptism with greater profundity.” *- Pope Francis

Don’t worry. Conversion isn’t an “enemy” word. Ask Pope Francis what it means.

And despite the insulting suggestion of deception (for no good reason), I’ll respond to your comments about my ID…

I am a Catholic. In fact, I’m a “revert” like Jeff Cavens. I left the church because I couldn’t understand why evangelicals were on fire for Jesus and sharing the faith with their friends and neighbors, while everyone around me at mass was annoyed, half-asleep and cutting me off in the parking lot n the way out. After a while, the Lord convinced me of the truth of the Catholic Church so I came back, despite my misgivings.

And it’s a hard road to travel. Any time I mention Jesus or quote scripture at a parish meeting, people get uncomfortable and give me a dirty look.

You see, people who are converted, or have had a personal encounter with Christ, want to read the bible and talk about Jesus. They want to go to church, praise God and support their fellow believers. People who don’t know the Lord want to be left alone, put their envelope in the basket and go home without shaking any hands or getting to know anyone.

Sorry I bothered you. Over the years I’ve noticed that every time I talk about Jesus or refer to scripture in these forums, folks become defensive and/or accusatory. It’s too bad really. But I should know better.

Peace be with you.

 

[clem456]

Over and over again, I have seen Catholics suffering because they simply will not cry out to Jesus, all by themselves, and be converted. There, I said it.

Saints, intercession, rosary, novenas… all awesome things. None can replace knowing Jesus Christ and sharing your life with him. I see folks buying a medal, burying a statue, lighting a candle, getting a scapular… you name it… and wondering why they don’t seem to know God.

If I was to suggest they simply close their eyes and talk to Jesus… they look at me like I have two heads. “But I want to sell my house. Don’t I need a little statue?” I guess that’s why I get upset.

This is why evangelicals say things like: *Catholics worship Mary, Catholics are superstitious, Catholics don’t know Jesus, Catholics don’t read their bibles. *

Obviously I’m not going to change minds here. I’m just hoping no one is using the communion of saints as a curtain to hide behind, instead of a ladder to climb upon.

With my love and prayers… Happy New Year to all!

All of these things can spill over into superstition or idolatry. Turning the statue upside down can be a pious tradition, it can also be superstition. Depends on the disposition of the believer I suppose.

Our relationship with Christ can be the same way, if it is seen as exclusive of his Church, the Mystical Body of his believers. We are one through him, with him, and in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit. If one says “Lord Lord”, one is acknowledging Jesus in this full context of the Communion of Saints. We don’t live in a personal vacuum, just me and Jesus. By nature, communion with Christ is communion with the whole body.

Why wouldn’t I pray with all the Church, and ask others for help?

Those who advocate an exclusively personal relationship with Jesus, do not, in fact, know Jesus.

 

[Dodge_pursuit]

You really think that suggesting people talk to Jesus is “advocating an exclusively personal relationship with Jesus?” Come on now. I never said “exclusive” and I never said people shouldn’t “pray with the church!” I pray the Liturgy of the Hours for goodness sake.

And of course, you must add, anyone suggesting talking to Jesus “does not, in fact, know Jesus.” Ah, the adult version of “I know you are, but what am I?”

Sorry to bother you. I guess I was out of line.

unsubscribing…

 

[clem456]

You really think that suggesting people talk to Jesus is “advocating an exclusively personal relationship with Jesus?” Come on now. I never said “exclusive” and I never said people shouldn’t “pray with the church!” I pray the Liturgy of the Hours for goodness sake.

And of course, you must add, anyone suggesting talking to Jesus “does not, in fact, know Jesus.” Ah, the adult version of “I know you are, but what am I?”

Sorry to bother you. I guess I was out of line.

unsubscribing…

I was confused then, by your post and misread it. My apologies.

Originally Posted by Dodge pursuit View Post
Over and over again, I have seen Catholics suffering because they simply will not cry out to Jesus, all by themselves, and be converted. There, I said it.

This is why evangelicals say things like: Catholics worship Mary, Catholics are superstitious, Catholics don’t know Jesus, Catholics don’t read their bibles.

Obviously I’m not going to change minds here. I’m just hoping no one is using the communion of saints as a curtain to hide behind, instead of a ladder to climb upon.

When I read “cry out to Jesus, all by themselves” I misread your meaning. I was responding to that and the equation of the faith with superstition by evangelicals. My bad.