Mary and the Holy Spirit

[godisgood77]

No offense but why must we “ask Mary to ask Him?”

According to scripture, we are temples of the Holy Spirit. The Spirit gives us the ability to pray to God and call God “Abba, father.” The Spirit guides us and powers our witness. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. As believers, we ought to be pretty close to Him.

Why wouldn’t we ask Him, think about Him, invite Him, ourselves?

Just saying. I understand intercession- just like asking a buddy to pray for you except the buddy is in heaven. But let’s not make things more complicated, right?

Amen!

 

[godisgood77]

You really think that suggesting people talk to Jesus is “advocating an exclusively personal relationship with Jesus?” Come on now. I never said “exclusive” and I never said people shouldn’t “pray with the church!” I pray the Liturgy of the Hours for goodness sake.

And of course, you must add, anyone suggesting talking to Jesus “does not, in fact, know Jesus.” Ah, the adult version of “I know you are, but what am I?”

Sorry to bother you. I guess I was out of line.

unsubscribing…

Dodge… don’t give up. You are not alone in your views. You can go directly to Christ - the one mediator between God and man. You can pray with Mary and the saints or not - I do daily, but that is a personal thing. Often times in my experience, many people try to impose their personal devotion on others as a requirement; unfortunately this frequently includes Marian devotion. We can always take solace in the motto of one of the most fervent Marian devotees which was “In God alone!”

Don’t get discouraged… you are not wrong

 

[godisgood77]

Happy New Year to you, too.

I’m wondering why you want to “change minds” regarding our beautiful Marian traditions, and what I am supposed to be “converted” to when I cry out to Jesus. You identify as Catholic, but you hope no one hides behind the curtain of the communion of saints…these comments sound odd to me, coming from a Catholic. The OP question was about Mary and the Holy Spirit, hence the Marian answers.

Like most Catholics, of course I talk to Jesus. I love Him! I ask Mother Mary for everything I need and I put all my intentions in her immaculate hands and I also talk to Jesus every single night and in my morning offering. Just because I pray the rosary and have devotion to Mary doesn’t mean I don’t also talk to Jesus. I am privileged to receive Jesus in His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity every time I go to Communion! I’m not worthy, but He only says the word and my soul is healed.

Definitely don’t think he was trying ot change minds nor was he criticizing Marian traditions. I think quite the contrary. He called all devotionals great things, but was reinforcing the very Catholic fact that they are all secondary to Christ… a very distant second for certain.

 

[godisgood77]

We have demonstrable proof that this isn’t what God wants. Why did God have Moses? Why does he have prophets? Why does he have preachers? Why does he have our Mother? Why does he have all of these supposedly useless “middle men”? Also, when Tobit prayed for divine aid, God sent Raphael. What’s the point of these ministering spirits anyway? Why did Gabriel make the Annunciation to Mary? Why did Michael battle Satan Scratch all of that and ask a more fundamental questions: why did God choose to create something, instead of creating nothing?

We also have demonstrable proof that God does want it that way. He visit Earth and interacted directly with humans, directed us to pray directly to God in the Lord’s prayer and classified himself as the one mediator between God and man. So both views are valid, no?

 

[DebChris]

Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father. She is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. When Jesus died on the Cross, He gave His mother into John’s care. Historically it was necessary for somebody to be responsible for her physical well being once the man Jesus was no longer able to take care of his earthly mother.
The Church teaches that when Jesus gave Mary into John’s care, He also made her our Mother. We became her children. We were likewise placed into her care. The question you need to ask is would you invite your mother to the meeting? If so, then invite Mother Mary. Recognize her for who she is, the pure vessel chosen by God to bring salvation to the world.
Is Mary God? No
Does she reflect God’s radiance as the moon reflects the sun? yes.
What man is not honored when his mother is given flowers?

 

[lovepeacemercy]

Never prayed to Mary or Angel or Saint but God my father still answered my prayer. So,
why do people pray to Mary?

 

[TimothyH]

Definitely don’t think he was trying ot change minds nor was he criticizing Marian traditions. I think quite the contrary. He called all devotionals great things, but was reinforcing the very Catholic fact that they are all secondary to Christ… a very distant second for certain.

No, not distant, but linked in such a way that they are inseparable.

Christ, the Apostles, the Church, Mary, Scripture - they are all part of God’s plan. If God had a better and more beautiful plan then he would have given it to us. We can’t pick and choose parts of the plan. None of it is optional.

Christ spoke to the Apostles and sent 72 out to preach on his behalf. Christ appointed Peter and his successors as his prime minister. Christ ascended to Heaven and left a Church to be his mouthpiece and instrument of salvation on earth. Christ gave us Mary and the Saints to intercede before him on our behalf. Christ gave us priests and deacons and devotions and ministries and prayers all for a reason.

A king does not exist in a room by himself but has a royal court, ministers who perform various functions in the kingdom, heads of armies and attendants. The kingdom cannot exist with just the king alone but needs these to function and the ordinary members of the kingdom interact with the king through these ministers, court members and attendants.

None of it is optional.

-Tim-

 

[Mark121359]

Over and over again, I have seen Catholics suffering because they simply will not cry out to Jesus, all by themselves, and be converted. There, I said it.

Saints, intercession, rosary, novenas… all awesome things. None can replace knowing Jesus Christ and sharing your life with him. I see folks buying a medal, burying a statue, lighting a candle, getting a scapular… you name it… and wondering why they don’t seem to know God.

If I was to suggest they simply close their eyes and talk to Jesus… they look at me like I have two heads. “But I want to sell my house. Don’t I need a little statue?” I guess that’s why I get upset.

This is why evangelicals say things like: *Catholics worship Mary, Catholics are superstitious, Catholics don’t know Jesus, Catholics don’t read their bibles. *

Obviously I’m not going to change minds here. I’m just hoping no one is using the communion of saints as a curtain to hide behind, instead of a ladder to climb upon.
!

*“Brothers and sisters: today, Ash Wednesday, begins the Lenten itinerary that leads us to the celebration of the Easter Triduum, a memorial of our salvation,” the Pope said in March 5.

“Lent,” he affirmed during his weekly address, “is a ‘strong’ time of conversion*,” and a time “to live our baptism with greater profundity.” - Pope Francis

Don’t worry. Conversion isn’t an “enemy” word. Ask Pope Francis what it means.

Uh huh…since you’re fond of quoting Pope Francis, you may be interested in this little quote from him as well!

“When a Christian says to me, not that he does not love the Virgin, but rather that it does not come to mind to look to the Virgin or to pray to the Virgin, I feel sad," the Pope said, adding that “a Christian without the Virgin is an orphan.”

Peace, Mark

 

[godisgood77]

No, not distant, but linked in such a way that they are inseparable.

I didn’t say or imply that they weren’t connected. I made the true statement that there is a hierarchy of truths (as the Church teaches). The first order is that Christ is God and nothing is remotely close to that fact.

Christ, the Apostles, the Church, Mary, Scripture - they are all part of God’s plan. If God had a better and more beautiful plan then he would have given it to us. We can’t pick and choose parts of the plan. None of it is optional.

You are missing the point. No one is saying that these things aren’t part of God’s plan; I’m certainly not. Again, there is a hierarchy.

Christ spoke to the Apostles and sent 72 out to preach on his behalf. Christ appointed Peter and his successors as his prime minister. Christ ascended to Heaven and left a Church to be his mouthpiece and instrument of salvation on earth. **Christ gave us Mary and the Saints to intercede before him on our behalf. Christ gave us priests and deacons and devotions and ministries and prayers all for a reason. **

True, Christ gave us Mary and the Saints to intercede for us if we call upon them. He also told us to pray directly to God in the Lord’s prayer or to look to his mediation between human’s and the father. To say that there is a singular way to go to Christ (the only mediator between God and man) is not only contrary to Christ’s teaching, but imposing severe limits on God.

A king does not exist in a room by himself but has a royal court, ministers who perform various functions in the kingdom, heads of armies and attendants. The kingdom cannot exist with just the king alone but needs these to function and the ordinary members of the kingdom interact with the king through these ministers, court members and attendants.

By this, are you are saying that ordinary members (i.e. lay people) can not interact with God directly?

None of it is optional.

Tim - Unless you practice every single devotional that is endorsed by the Church, you are contradicting yourself. If you do, then good on you, but if not you should be able to see the flaw in your statements.

 

[Mr_Clean]

Its all good unless God says no, the Church says no, or it keeps you away from Jesus.

 

[FAB]

*“Brothers and sisters: today, Ash Wednesday, begins the Lenten itinerary that leads us to the celebration of the Easter Triduum, a memorial of our salvation,” the Pope said in March 5.

“Lent,” he affirmed during his weekly address, “is a ‘strong’ time of conversion*,” and a time “to live our baptism with greater profundity.” - Pope Francis

Don’t worry. Conversion isn’t an “enemy” word. Ask Pope Francis what it means.

And despite the insulting suggestion of deception (for no good reason), I’ll respond to your comments about my ID…

I am a Catholic. In fact, I’m a “revert” like Jeff Cavens. I left the church because I couldn’t understand why evangelicals were on fire for Jesus and sharing the faith with their friends and neighbors, while everyone around me at mass was annoyed, half-asleep and cutting me off in the parking lot n the way out. After a while, the Lord convinced me of the truth of the Catholic Church so I came back, despite my misgivings.

And it’s a hard road to travel. Any time I mention Jesus or quote scripture at a parish meeting, people get uncomfortable and give me a dirty look.

You see, people who are converted, or have had a personal encounter with Christ, want to read the bible and talk about Jesus. They want to go to church, praise God and support their fellow believers. People who don’t know the Lord want to be left alone, put their envelope in the basket and go home without shaking any hands or getting to know anyone.

Sorry I bothered you. Over the years I’ve noticed that every time I talk about Jesus or refer to scripture in these forums, folks become defensive and/or accusatory. It’s too bad really. But I should know better.

Peace be with you.

Dear Dodge,
It is very good and welcome back home to Christ’s church.
I would suggest to you to show your personal encounter with Christ in the way in which you live your life. As St. Frances indicated, preach the Gospel always, use words when you must.
I would make the mistake that those who are jumping up and down singing and praising as you found in the protestant church are any more closer to Christ that the Catholics you are giving a critique to who wish to worship in a more subdue manor. Their faith and ministry you might be surprised to find is very deep. I often find that the most quiet of my parishioners are doing the greatest service for the Lord in their time talents and treasure.
Catholic show their faith in the way we practice it, not as much in the way we exclaim it.

My peace and Blessings
Deacon Frank

 

[clem456]

I didn’t say or imply that they weren’t connected. I made the true statement that there is a hierarchy of truths (as the Church teaches). The first order is that Christ is God and nothing is remotely close to that fact.

What does it mean to be in communion with the Church?