Mary and what some people thing is Goddess worship

[ProVobis]

Technically, the Vatican document is not incorrect. It just needs to by read with an understanding that in that context the word worship is taken in broader sense than it typically is today.

Well, apparently those who attack the Catholics don’t seem to have that same understanding and I doubt you can convince them otherwise. The fact is that the translation into English leaves Catholics vulnerable, whether it’s “correct” or otherwise.

Thanks for the Greek distinctions, by the way.

 

[GaryTaylor]

We become bound here by the will of God. Its not a question of what anyone “thinks”. Its a fact in the CC as to specific areas of the Blessed Mother. Apparently Gods desire to establish the reverence to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by Her Son…Jesus Christ.

When the question arrise’s how do we know? Well we know the facts of the Consecration of Austria, Portugal and Mexico to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. We know the History of the BVM in the Church which dates back to the Apostles. We know what Luke said in Scripture and verse’s in relation. We know the History of Poland and there belief in the BVM. Again another country which the intercession of the BVM become apparent in history to those native to Poland. Malta another example. This just can’t be ignored, dismissed, and especially disrespected. We feel thats going directly against the will of God. It won’t and can’t stand.

Millions of Catholics have come to the understanding that God desires to establish the veneration of the Immaculate Heart to the Kingdom of God.

Fatima had added to this belief. Millions of Catholics and non-catholics have come to believe the social/political and christian ecumenism is restricting the will of God to happen right now today on earth.

We don’t condemn other Faiths. We interact and talk with all faith where human contyact allows the tolerence. And thus we respect others beliefs.

We ask that everyone else allow us to do what we belief without judgement and constant conflict.

If in fact we are right what do you have to lose in this area? But look what you have to gain with Gods will being completed as instructed.

Mary “interceeds” and we believe today without Her intercession we would be in a much worse mess than mankind is in.

Through history and known fact, this isn’t even an area up for debate. The will of God is the first priority to us.

When we are instructed as Catholics to do this [whatever it is]. Then that is what we do. We are not here to appeal to anyones will, only the will of God which has been instructed to the Catholic Church . As Jesus Chirst has done since his resurrection with the Apostles, so to today does the Holy Spirit direct the Church and its true followers.

The real issue is what if we are right as millions of Cathilcs believe so? How does it effect you in any way? Why interfer if it doesn’t affect you? Its a win win situation for anyone who isn’t Christian. If in fact which we 100% believe we are.

God Bless, Gary

 

[ProVobis]

We become bound here by the will of God. Its not a question of what anyone “thinks”. Its a fact in the CC as to specific areas of the Blessed Mother. Apparently Gods desire to establish the reverence to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by Her Son…Jesus Christ.

When the question arrise’s how do we know? Well we know the facts of the Consecration of Austria, Portugal and Mexico to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. We know the History of the BVM in the Church which dates back to the Apostles. We know what Luke said in Scripture and verse’s in relation. We know the History of Poland and there belief in the BVM. Again another country which the intercession of the BVM become apparent in history to those native to Poland. Malta another example. This just can’t be ignored, dismissed, and especially disrespected. We feel thats going directly against the will of God. It won’t and can’t stand.

Millions of Catholics have come to the understanding that God desires to establish the veneration of the Immaculate Heart to the Kingdom of God.

Good points.

 

[Monica4316]

Why would you have a hatred for Mary? It’s either you believe she would want to be elevated or not, no?

I don’t know why I had a hatred for Mary, I think it was something demonic it wasn’t good and I eventually I realized how wrong it was and asked for God to take it away, and He did.

 

[Sandalwood]

I spent nearly all my life as a Protestant, married one of another denomination and grew up with many and am surrounded by mostly Protestant now. I’ve asked many, many of them about this and they all agree, they’ve never heard of Mary being considered a goddess (they all laughed and thought I was joking) nor compared her to Diana or anyone else. They all said Mary is the Mother of God and that Catholics revere her.

Ok, those I asked were: Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Evangelical Free, Jehovah Witness, and some others that I can’t remember what they were (my bad )

I just don’t get where Catholics think these things about Protestants…

 

[Sandalwood]

I don’t know why I had a hatred for Mary, I think it was something demonic it wasn’t good and I eventually I realized how wrong it was and asked for God to take it away, and He did.

that’s so sad that you felt that way. I’m glad you had a change of heart

 

[redrosetea]

Mary was Christs truest disciple and a model for us all…Christs beginning of public ministry happened at her bidding…Even then she was interceding for others to her son

If you go back to the OT the Queen was not the wife of the king but his mother, and she would make intercession for her people…WE are so lucky to have her as a mother and an example…Her reply to the people at Cana was, do whatever He tells you

Mary always leads us to Christ, the rosary is the life of Christ as seen through her eyes…she brought me into the church…I knew Christ but I had no idea how important Mary would become to me, and I was so pleased to know she was my mother too

One of the best things about being catholic is all of the beautiful things you acquire … the saints, Mary, sacramentals, feast days, church councils, the early church fathers…so many treasures , but Mary is the best ,next to Christ

 

[JReducation]

Having come from Judaism, the radical Protestant rejection of Mary was foreign to me. The Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim veneration of Mary is the one piece of the three that Jews actually believe makes sense.

In Judaism, the mother has always had two prominent roles. Unfortunately, like Christianity, today’s Jew is also falling away from his faith and traditions. However, if one looks at Jewish tradition, going all the way back to the Patriarchs, one can see and understand that the veneration given to Mary is not goddess worship, but was actually foreshadowed in Jewish life.

A child must be born to a Jewish mother to inherit the Jewish bloodline. The prophets had promised that the Messiah would come from the House of Judah. For that to happen, the mother had to be of the House of Judah.

The mother is the protector of the faith. It is the God-given duty of the mother to bring her children to the faith. This makes is perfectly comprehensible that Mary would bring her children to the faith. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega. Faith begins and ends with him. The mother brings all to him who is the source and the object of faith.

From a Jewish perspective, Mary is not a goddess. She is an instrument and she is foreshadowed by Eve, the mother of all that is living. She is the new Eve. She is foreshadowed by Sarah, the mother of nations. Even though Isaac was Abraham’s second son, only he can carry the bloodline of Israel, because he is Sarah’s son. As Abraham is the Father of Many Nations, so too, Sarah is the Mother of Many nations. Therefore, Isaac has to be born from the couple. Jesus fulfills the promises made to Abraham. However, that promise can only be fulfilled with the participation of a mother from the line of Abraham and Sarah. From a Jewish perspective, it is very important to keep the mother in the forefront as proof of Jesus’ legitimacy. You can’t shove her into a closet and then claim that Jesus is the fulfillment of the covenants made with the Patriarchs.

Rebecca also foreshadows Mary. When she switches the two sons, she sets events in motion. Isaac will father Jacob, who will be known as Israel. We see Mary setting events in motion when she consents to the incarnation, but more overtly at the wedding at Cana.

Then we have Rachel who gives birth to the beloved son, the name by which the Father would refer to Jesus. “This is my Beloved Son.” God does not allow Rachel to bear a child until she bears Jacob’s beloved son, Joseph. In the same way, God preserves Mary free of sin and a virgin for one singular purpose, to bear his Beloved Son, Jesus.

There are no goddesses with this background. When one understands that the Old Testament is truly about Jesus Christ, studies it carefully, it becomes easier to understand the role of the mother. Mary is not a goddess. She is Mother. Mothers are essential to the covenant as evidenced by Sarah, Rebecca, Rachel and all of the holy mothers in the OT. It is Moses’ mother who saves his life, not his father. Without Moses, all would be lost. Is his mother the liberator? No. Neither is Mary. What would have been of us, if Jochebed had not protected him? Israel needed Moses. Jochebed, his mother, gave him to us.

If we look at the Hebrew Scriptures, they mention mothers, because they are essential in God’s plan. The OT authors were not trying to write novels or history books. They were writing about Revelation. They only include was is necessary to understand Revelation. They certainly include a great deal about mothers.

None of these women were goddesses; but they were all venerated by the Jewish people and still are by faithful Jews to this day. The veneration of Mary is no surprise to us. Since she is the mother of the head, it stands to reason that she is venerated above all the other venerable mothers in the scriptures.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[OscarsMama]

None of these women were goddesses; but they were all venerated by the Jewish people and still are by faithful Jews to this day. The veneration of Mary is no surprise to us. Since she is the mother of the head, it stands to reason that she is venerated above all the other venerable mothers in the scriptures.

Thanks for such a great explaination. Now I wish I took “women of the Bible” in college…

 

[JReducation]

Thanks for such a great explaination. Now I wish I took “women of the Bible” in college…

You see what you missed. :yup:

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[UnusVeritas]

Well, apparently those who attack the Catholics don’t seem to have that same understanding and I doubt you can convince them otherwise. The fact is that the translation into English leaves Catholics vulnerable, whether it’s “correct” or otherwise.

Thanks for the Greek distinctions, by the way.

That’s the problem with translating anything, is that sometimes “something is lost in translation.” There’s no more problem with explaining Vatican II to a Protestant than the pre-Vatican II catechisms which say we worship Mary with Hyperdulia (which were not even translated, I’ll note).

Just as a note, it was Latin distinctions, not Greek. And no problem.

 

[ProVobis]

That’s the problem with translating anything, is that sometimes “something is lost in translation.” There’s no more problem with explaining Vatican II to a Protestant than the pre-Vatican II catechisms which say we worship Mary with Hyperdulia (which were not even translated, I’ll note).

I understand the Baltimore Catechism was compiled by the Amercan bishops and somewhat restricted to the U.S. and some other English-speaking countries.

Just as a note, it was Latin distinctions, not Greek.

Works for me.

When in doubt, consult a third language.

 

[Portrait]

When some people think that Catholics engage in goddess worship by saying prayers to Mary, what goddess to they think that we are worshipping? Who is the goddess Diane or Diana? Where are they getting this?

(This question is NOT intended to start a debate about ‘whether or not Catholics worship Mary’ (because I know that we don’t), but to understand the statements about goddess worship)).

Thank you for answering my question!!

Dear OscarsMama,

Cordial greetings, dear friend.

Many conservative Protestants believe, quite wrongly of course, that the Church was so secularized under the Roman Emperor Constantine, that many ideas and practices which were pagan in origin were imported into the Church (known as ‘pagan convert theory’). Thus it is their contention that ‘Mary worship’ was a direct consequence of the paganizing of the Church following the 4th. century rapprochement with the state in the reign of the Emperor, Constantine. It was in this era that the floodgates were, allegedly, opened and this paved the way for so many of the developing Catholic ‘errors’ of the Middle Ages, which can be traced to this early period. The Protestants are of the opinion that this is eminently true of of the cult of Mary, the roots of which are supposedly found in the cult of the Mother Goddess so popular in the 4th. century.

The veneration of the Mother Goddess had its roots in remote history but found new vigour in Egypt and the Mediterranean world. In Egypt Isis was pictured with her infant son Horus on her knee and, so the argument runs, the Virgin Mary also began to be extolled, as the pagan Juno had been, as the protector of expectant women. She was the guardian of cities, where she had the title ‘Our lady’, a title she shared with the godess Athena Polias.

Moreover, attention is drawn to the fact that the cult developed in its early days precisely in those centres where devotion to the Mother Goddess was established. As mentioned already Egypt was the centre of the worship of Isis. Another important centre was Phrygia, where the great mother Cybele was the focus of devotion.

The main plank of this argument is that the divine female figure of the Mother Goddess of the Mediterranean world has not been without relation nor influence upon the evolution which has brought the Virgin Mary to the place which she now holds in Catholic piety. Moreover, attention is further drawn to the popular appeal of these ancient cults with their emphasis on the motherly care of the goddess. It is argued that this concept has percolated into popular Catholic piety and into the view of the sympathetic Mother who has has great influence with her Son.

These mystery cults with their Mother Goddesse’s are, I suspect, the background and explanation to the mistaken notions of some ingnorant Protestants who feel that we similarly worship Mary, rather than consider her worthy of special devotion on account of her status.

The fundamental problem with all pagan convert views, including the ones appertaining to the Blessed Virgin Mary, is that they do not allow for the incorporation of that which is good from earlier religions, but rather prefer a root and branch rejection, thus throwing the baby out with the bathwater

God bless and thankyou for your question. Hope my response has thrown some light upon things.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[JReducation]

I understand the Baltimore Catechism was compiled by the Amercan bishops and somewhat restricted to the U.S. and some other English-speaking countries.

Works for me.

When in doubt, consult a third language.

A common mistake that people make is to believe that the Baltimore Catechism was an official catechism of the Church. That was never the case. Originally, the bishops were given permission to translated a specific catechism that had been published in France. They dragged their feet on it. A new generation of bishops came in and they selected another catechism to translate and the Holy See was very unhappy. After, there were several translations of the Baltimore Catechism. There were editions published by the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine and by other groups as well. Today, there are at least four editions of the Baltimore Catechism. There is a very good one that combines church documents, material from the CCC and scripture, but I cannot recall who published it. I believe it may called the Fourth Edition of the BC.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF