Mary as Co-Redeemer

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The topic of the homily at Saturday morning’s Mass was about Mary as co-redeemer.

I have heard of this but I have difficulty with the concept as it seems to deify Mary. I’ve always thought of Mary as God’s vision of humanity as it was intended before the fall of Adam and Eve. But I never considered her to be on a par with the second person of the Trinity.

Another thought I had was…If a soldier performed a brave deed and in the process saved the life of a comrade, would his mother share in the heroism?

Somebody, please explain…I don’t get it!
 
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cargau:
The topic of the homily at Saturday morning’s Mass was about Mary as co-redeemer.

I have heard of this but I have difficulty with the concept as it seems to deify Mary. I’ve always thought of Mary as God’s vision of humanity as it was intended before the fall of Adam and Eve. But I never considered her to be on a par with the second person of the Trinity.
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The term Co-redeemer or Co-redemptrix, as the Pope puts it, may seem to suggest that Christ does not redeem alone, but somehow needs a partner and that’s just wrong. It means “cooperator with the Redeemer”, its Latin prefix, “cum”, does not denote equality or partnership, but accompaniment (as in co-star or co-pilot). It really suggests dependence and subordination, and in the case of Mary, it refers to Mary’s association with Jesus Christ.

St. Paul says “we are God’s co-workers” in I Cor. 3:9, the Greek word is “synergoi”… and of course, Virgin Mary is a unique God’s Co-Worker since Bethlehem to Calvary.
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cargau:
Another thought I had was…If a soldier performed a brave deed and in the process saved the life of a comrade, would his mother share in the heroism?
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If his mother was standing right with him on the battlefield, I would say, “Definitely”.
 
Interesting thread - Let’s start of with the deification of Mary. There are a few Catholics out there who do go a little far with the co-redemtrix thing. But it is very few. What Mary’s involvement as co-redeemer means, as far as I know, is that she played a crucial role in the redemption of the world. She said “Yes”. She could have said “No”. She accepted God’s invitation to be the mother of the Lord.

Now Co-redemtrix does not mean “the same as Jesus”. It is kind of like the co-pilot in a plane. There is the Pilot and then his assistant, the co-pilot.

As far as the analogy of the soldier, the mother would have not known what the son was going to do, nor was she visited by an angel at the son’s conception. Mary had knowledge and accepted her calling. But, I’m sure that the mother would be respected for having a brave son.
 
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cargau:
The topic of the homily at Saturday morning’s Mass was about Mary as co-redeemer.

I have heard of this but I have difficulty with the concept as it seems to deify Mary. I’ve always thought of Mary as God’s vision of humanity as it was intended before the fall of Adam and Eve. But I never considered her to be on a par with the second person of the Trinity.

Another thought I had was…If a soldier performed a brave deed and in the process saved the life of a comrade, would his mother share in the heroism?

Somebody, please explain…I don’t get it!
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As far as I know the meaning of the prefix “co” doesn’t imply equality, instead it simply means “with”. It can’t be denied that Mary played a role in salvation, even if it was merely to bring the Savior into the world; however it is somewhat deeper than that. All the title of “co-redeemer” does is acknowledge Mary’s role. Christ is our ONLY savior; however Mary was a part of Gods plan. Believe it or not Judas was also a co-redeemer, in that he was an integral component of Gods plan. The difference is that we honor Mary with the title of Co-Redeemer because she acted out of love and obedience to God not out of selfishness and evil as did Judas.

Man, I know I’m gonna take some flack for that last comment.

God bless
Levi
 
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cargau:
The topic of the homily at Saturday morning’s Mass was about Mary as co-redeemer. Another thought I had was…If a soldier performed a brave deed and in the process saved the life of a comrade, would his mother share in the heroism?

Somebody, please explain…I don’t get it!
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In Old Testamrnt times(see Kings and Chroniocles) the Kings Mother reigned along with the King. She was not his equal but as Queen Mother she had a share in the role played by the King, just as a co-pilot shares responsibility with the pilot. Of course in other co- titles such as co-worker one usually assumes equality, but that is not always the case. When the Kings of the OT are listed you can observe that the name of his mother is also listed. The King’s wives did not usually share in His authority as is more the case in more recent times. But even then the spouse did not rule equally with the regent. Queen Elizabeth’s husband Philip for example is not called a King. So equal? No. Share? Yes
 
When mankind fell from God’s grace in the garden of Eden, it was because of the man Adam’s disobedience but the story of the Fall of Man would be incomplete without also mentioning the disobedience of the woman Eve. In the same way, mankind was redeemed because of the God-man Jesus’ obedience but the story of the Redemption of Man would be incomplete without also mentioning the obedience of the woman Mary.

The earliest Christians recognized, and the Catholic Church continues to recognize, the unique, secondary, Eve-like role of Mary in our Redemption:
… and that He [the Son of God] became man by the Virgin [Mary], in order that the disobedience which proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpant, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her … And by her has He [Jesus Christ] been born, … by whom God … works deliverance from death to those who repent of their wickedness and believe upon Him. (St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, chapter 100, written about A.D. 155)

And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith. (St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies, book 3, chapter 22, paragraph 4, written about A.D. 189)
 
What does it mean to be members of the Body of Christ?

It means that we are members of Christ and that we share in his Priestly role, his Prophetic role, and his Kingly role.
We share in all three aspects of Christ’s mission.

That means that our sacirifices and sufferings united to Christ have salvific value. That also means that we share in his role as sole and unique mediator. This is what it means to share in Christ’s Priestly role.

The same is true for his role as prophet, we are to proclaim the good news, preach the gospel, and go out to the world beinging the gospel everywhere.

We will share in his reign in eternity. We will literally reign with him.

We are co-redeemers because we are mystically members of His Body. One needs to contemplate what it means to be a member of the Body of Christ to understand what it means to be a co-mediator and co-redeemer.
 
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IanS:
If his mother was standing right with him on the battlefield, I would say, “Definitely”.
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She was…at the foot of the Cross.
 
Not trying to be argumentitive for arguments sake…just trying to get a hold on this.

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that Mary was a cooperator in the redemption of Christ. It seems to me that the act of redemption had to be divine. No mortal had what it takes to save the world,therefore, the incarnation.

If I am correct in saying so, then acknowledging Mary’s role in salvation still does not make her a redeemer. Jesus went to the cross and bore the physical pain of crucification to save mankind. Mary did not. I realize that she bore the pain of witnessing her son’s death but that doesn’t seem to be on the same plane???

Another thought, the apostles all said yes and suffered pain and even cruel deaths to spread the Gospel. Yet, no one seems to accord them the honor of co-redeemer. How come?
 
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cargau:
Not trying to be argumentitive for arguments sake…just trying to get a hold on this.

Wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that Mary was a cooperator in the redemption of Christ. It seems to me that the act of redemption had to be divine. No mortal had what it takes to save the world,therefore, the incarnation.

If I am correct in saying so, then acknowledging Mary’s role in salvation still does not make her a redeemer. Jesus went to the cross and bore the physical pain of crucification to save mankind. Mary did not. I realize that she bore the pain of witnessing her son’s death but that doesn’t seem to be on the same plane???

Another thought, the apostles all said yes and suffered pain and even cruel deaths to spread the Gospel. Yet, no one seems to accord them the honor of co-redeemer. How come?
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Actually, very often when speaking about Mary as Co-Redemptrix, we speak of how we are all co-redeemers in that we all cooperate with Christ in taking up our cross.
 
cargau, I think you are missing the point a little bit. Mary played a major role in the redemption of the world. You don’t have to call her co-redeemer. In no way, does this imply Mary did the redeeming. There have been some very good points here explaining co-redeemer.

It is simply a title of respect, nothing more.

As far as your “Apostles as co-redeemers” analogy, Jesus could have redeemed the world without the Apostles, but not without his mother conceiving him. (Well, I guess Jesus could have done anything by himself)
 
Actually, Pjs, I think I’m starting to get it. Thanks to all that set me straight here.

Todd E said that Mary and Jesus were preconfigured in the story of Adam and Eve and your explanation of Mary’s unique role in salvation makes her a significant player in the redemption of the world (without whom, God’s love could never have been fulfilled in the manner it did without Mary’s YES).

Mary, then unlike any other human being was chosen by God as the Ark of the covenant and the one who would pass her DNA to the second person of the Trinity so that he would have two natures.

It is possible to label Mary as Co-Redeemer without deifying Mary.

Am I close?
 
It is possible to label Mary as Co-Redeemer without deifying Mary.
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The entire point of our faith is deification! That is what we were created for.

Does anyone read the posts on this thread, or are we too busy talking that we don’t listen?
 
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Dan-Man916:
The entire point of our faith is deification! That is what we were created for.QUOTE]

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
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Dan and FCE, are you Mormon or did you really say that the entire point of our religion is to “make gods” out of things? I just looked up the definition of deify. Can you please explain your response?
 
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Pjs2ejs:
Dan and FCE, are you Mormon or did you really say that the entire point of our religion is to “make gods” out of things? I just looked up the definition of deify. Can you please explain your response?
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I think what Dan and FCE mean by “deification” is the following…
CCC 460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81

78 2 Pt 1:4.
79 St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 3, 19, 1: PG 7/1, 939.
80 St. Athanasius, De inc. 54, 3: PG 25, 192B.
81 St. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57, 1-4.
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For further information, I recommend the following from John Paul II…

GENERAL AUDIENCES: TEACHING OF POPE JOHN PAUL II ON THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY
ewtn.com/library/MARY/JP2BVM70.HTM

And this from John Paul II:
“Mary goes before us and accompanies us. The silent journey that begins with her Immaculate Conception and passes through the ‘yes’ of Nazareth, which makes her the Mother of God, finds on Calvary a particularly important moment. There also, accepting and assisting at the sacrifice of her son, Mary is the dawn of Redemption; …Crucified spiritually with her crucified son (cf. Gal. 2:20), she contemplated with heroic love the death of her God, she “lovingly consented to the immolation of this Victim which she herself had brought forth” (Lumen Gentium, 58)…In fact, at Calvary she united herself with the sacrifice of her Son that led to the foundation of the Church; her maternal heart shared to the very depths the will of Christ ‘to gather into one all the dispersed children of God’ (Jn. 11:52). Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the Mother of all the disciples of her Son, the Mother of their unity…In fact, Mary’s role as Coredemptrix did not cease with the glorification of her Son” (1985 Papal Address of Pope John Paul II in Guayaquil, Ecuador)"
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Maybe it is time the church to dump Latin, and speak Greek 🙂

or maybe English, Spanish, German, French, etc.,
 
Daniel Marsh:
Maybe it is time the church to dump Latin, and speak Greek 🙂

or maybe English, Spanish, German, French, etc.,
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I think the Church speaks all of the above. It would be a mistake to drop any.
 
Yes, exactly what Dave said, is what i was referring to.
We don’t become gods. We share in Christ’s divinity.

There is a silent prayer that the priest says at every mass before the Eucharistic canon.

He says:
By the mystery and the mingling of this wine and this water, may we come to share in the divinity of Christ, who humbled himself unto death.

This gets me back to the original point I made that no one commented on.

If we are One Body of Christ, and we share in His role as Priest, Prophet, and King, that means that we will reign with him (King), we are to preach the gospel (Prophet), and we are also to share in his unique sacrifice, share in his unique mediation to the Father, and share in His unique redemption on the cross. These are all priestly roles.

No one is saying that we take Christ’s place. It is not an either-or.

If we are One Body, that means it is a “Jesus-and”.

I was hoping we could talk about what it means to be the Body of Christ, so that it would hopefully shed some light on how we all share in Christ’s work of redemption, and are all in a certain way co-redeemers.

Unfortunately, some people are offended by the term because they mistakenly think it puts us or Mary on equal footing with Jesus. It does not.

It’s really all about what it means to be Priest, Prophet, and King; incorporated into the Body of Christ through faith and Baptism.

The answer is to be found in there.
 
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