Mary as Co-Redemptrix

[JRKH]

Well of course all Graces come to mankind through Mary. She born Christ and He came into the world through Her.

Christ IS Grace, He doesn’t just 'give" Grace, He IS Grace, His nature is Grace.

So when Mary consented to bring Christ into the world, she consented to all Graces coming into the world.

(and one more point, they fact that some people would be uneasy with a particular Truth should not, and does not, exempt the Church from having to proclaim it)

All of this is an interesting philosophical argument but it does little to help the average Catholic become closer to God through Christ. Nor does it help Catholic apologists and Catholic evangelists when they have yet another “misunderstood” Marian doctrine to refute.

I love our Blessed Mother. I know our Blessed Mother loves us and I am sure she would not wish this thing to happen. To have any attention, glory, devotion and praise diverted to her that should be directed to God alone.
Many Many people had a hand in our redemption, including some with very unique roles, such as Pilate and Ciaphas and Judas. Without them God’s plan would have been thwarted as well. Should we consider them co-redeemers? Of course not.

Now before I’m jumped here, of course I know I’m being facetious and off base. Our Blessed Mother’s role was indeed unique. She suffered much for our redemption, and she has been amply rewarded by her children through devotion and honor.

I cannot believe that she would countenance this thing that can only serve to divide her children further.
Let’s keep our eyes on Christ our redeemer.

Yours in Christ
James

 

[sphilomena]

It may temporarily cause confusion, but that was probably said about declaring the Assumption dogma also. We must look at the supernatural aspect; the graces that came upon the Church after the last dogma. And sorry, JRKH, but Mary does wish this, as repeated in the apparitions of Our Lady of All Nations, an approved apparition in the Netherlands. (Two succeeding bishops approved it, which is what is necessary - local approval.) A great number of very holy people have prayed for the dogma to be declared, including dear Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

This might be the Marian pillar in St. John Bosco’s famous vision. We must look long term at the supernatural effect it would have.

 

[AJV]

It is not saying that Mary is equal to Christ in redeeming us but that Mary, by her co-operation in bringing Christ into the world, played a major role in our redemption. Her will was perfectly united with the Will of God. God willed that all men might be saved and Mary, by her free choice, said “Let it be done to me according to Thy Will.”

This explains it better than I can.
catholicsource.net/articles/coredemptrix.html

I think that some of the hesitation to declare this as dogma stems from the misunderstanding of what the title means. On the surface, the title appears to put Mary on the same level as Christ. I saw one staunch Catholic become livid because he misunderstood the title thinking that it was declaring Mary divine when I just mentioned Co-Redemptrix. If it can confuse Catholics, then how much more can it confuse non-Catholics?

The thing is, as explained by the link above, I don’t see where it is not already acknowledged by the Church.

Doesn’t the Church acknowledge the unique role of our Lady through the writings of the Fathers and even in the Divine Office and the Mass? I am thinking for example of the prayer that may be said on Saturdays in Ordinary Time- “Through you immaculate Virgin the life we lost was returned to us” or in one feast “May we obtain salvation through you and find life in the Passion of Christ”. The Lord knows how many times I’ve read or heard something about the importance of our Lady’s fiat or the suffering beneath the cross

I don’t then really see the need to give it a name which is potentially very confusing. Wasn’t it Cardinal Ratzinger who said something about it not been prudent because it approaches the language of Scripture too closely or something?

 

[JRKH]

It may temporarily cause confusion, but that was probably said about declaring the Assumption dogma also. We must look at the supernatural aspect; the graces that came upon the Church after the last dogma. ** And sorry, JRKH, but Mary does wish this, as repeated in the apparitions of Our Lady of All Nations, an approved apparition in the Netherlands. (Two succeeding bishops approved it, which is what is necessary - local approval.)** A great number of very holy people have prayed for the dogma to be declared, including dear Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

This might be the Marian pillar in St. John Bosco’s famous vision. We must look long term at the supernatural effect it would have.

I am not familiar with this. Can you provide links-details etc.?

 

[JRKH]

I don’t know how many apologists are lurking around, but let me ask this.
If this were to be dogmatically declared - That Mary is given the title of Coredemptrix - How will one respond to the “show me in the bible” crowd?
Believe me I appreciate the great love the church has for our dear mother, but we really need to consider how troublesome that term “coredemtrix” will be. How much more difficult is this going to make it for those trying to evangelize.
As the Church works to reach out to protestants would it not be better to leave this as it is for now? Our beautiful lady is honored and loved, revered and venerated for precisely the same things this term wants to “codify”.
Why complicate things by using a term that would cause so much confusion. And I don’t think it would only be temporary. Those who would use it against catholics will continue to do so regardless of ho many times it is refuted or explained.
As for myself. I admit to more than just a little concern about this.

Yours in Christ

James

 

[DustinsDad]

…I cannot believe that she would countenance this thing that can only serve to divide her children further.
Let’s keep our eyes on Christ our redeemer…

It’s not about what Mary wills for herself - her will is in complete conformity and union with God’s will. The question is, is it God’s will to point out and honor His mother in this way.

If He does will to honor the Blessed Virgin Mary in this way, who are we to say it’s a bad decision?

Keeping in mind Our Lady’s own words, “do whatever He tells you”, if He wants to honor and venerate His mother and ours under this title, the Blessed Mother wouldn’t reject it, and neither should we.

In the end, it is all about Him.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[Goth_Catholic]

First and foremost, I understand it. However, I understand the confusion, also, even among my own Catholic brethern. But if Rome desides to declare it a dogma, then I pray the chair of St. Peter will explain it carefully enough as to not confuse Catholics nor protestants nor the Orthodex for that matter. I don’t see this being declared a dogma any time soon, though. If the world changes and the schisms begin heal, or if Our Lord and Lady declare it their wish, it will be so.

 

[blossom02]

Its really quit simple:

co = cooperate / with redemption –

Mary said yes and that would be cooperation on her part so she was coredemptrix/ cooperated with redemption(it doesn’t mean that she was a redemer.

NO BIG MYSTERY or NO HERESY

 

[knightbvm]

Pope Benedict XV, March 22, 1918, Apostolic Letter Inter Sodalicia, ≥As she suffered and almost died together with her suffering and dying Son, so she surrendered her mother’s rights over her Son for the salvation of the human race. And to satisfy the justice of God she sacrificed her Son, as well as she could, so that it may justly be said that she together with Christ has redeemed the human race. It is for this reason that all graces contained in the treasury of the Redemption are given to us through the hands of the same sorrowful Virgin.≤

 

[JRKH]

Its really quit simple:

co = cooperate / with redemption –

Mary said yes and that would be cooperation on her part so she was coredemptrix/ cooperated with redemption(it doesn’t mean that she was a redemer.

NO BIG MYSTERY or NO HERESY

Using Dictionary.com I found this:

Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary of Law
Main Entry: co-
Function: prefix
1 : **with : together : joint : jointly **
2 a : associated in an action with another : fellow b : having a usually lesser share in duty or responsibility : alternate : deputy

So do you think that people who hear Co-Redemptrix are going to hear co-operate? I don’t think so.

Peace
James

 

[knightbvm]

JKirk and the rest of you please read what Benedict XV wrote------posted by me above-----Mary is the Co- Redemptrix-----whether it is prudent for the Pope to formally and solemnly declare her as such is up for debate—

 

[Linda_Marie]

Yes, this belief has long been held by Catholics and is taught by the Church. It just hasn’t been declared dogma. God chose to be born of Mary. He could have come any other way but He chose to be born of Mary. Thus, all Redeeming Grace came into the world through Mary, by the Will of God. Mary is not the Source of the Redeeming Grace, but she is the willing conduit. I read it described this way - We are the Body of Christ and He is the Head. Mary is the Neck, part of the Body and closest to Christ. Nothing from the Head reaches the Body without going through the Neck.

From the Catechism:

964 Mary’s role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. “This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ’s virginal conception up to his death”;504 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:

Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother’s heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."505

965 After her Son’s Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."506 In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."507

. . . also in her Assumption

966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son’s Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:

In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509

. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace

967 By her complete adherence to the Father’s will, to his Son’s redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church’s model of faith and charity. Thus she is a “preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church”; indeed, she is the “exemplary realization” (typus)510 of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior’s work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512

970 "Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p6.htm#964

 

[MH84]

Can I ask please, why is it so important that Mary is recoognised as Co-redemptrix? Isnt it enough that she is called Mother of God. Isnt there other things that the Church should be worried about? Also, if the Blessed Virgin is officially known as Co-redemptrix how will that affect peoples devotion to her? At this stage I can’t see any.

 

[JRKH]

**Can I ask please, why is it so important that Mary is recoognised as Co-redemptrix? Isnt it enough that she is called Mother of God? **Isnt there other things that the Church should be worried about? Also, if the Blessed Virgin is officially known as Co-redemptrix how will that affect peoples devotion to her? At this stage I can’t see any.

This is also my question.
There is nothing really new in any of this. The pieces have long been known and acknowledged. The love and veneration has long been accorded her. She is the beautiful, loving mother of our Lord and our first intercessional advocate. To dogmatically bestow her with this new title would be too much for some people both inside and outside the Church.
We have one redeemer that is Jesus Christ. To call any other “co-redeemer” or “co-redemptrix” would be a huge misstep, no matter how you try to dogmatically define it. It would result in anther huge area for the apologists to try to understand and explain to our non-catholic and anti-catholic bretheren.

 

[knightbvm]

This is also my question.
There is nothing really new in any of this. The pieces have long been known and acknowledged. The love and veneration has long been accorded her. She is the beautiful, loving mother of our Lord and our first intercessional advocate. To dogmatically bestow her with this new title would be too much for some people both inside and outside the Church.
We have one redeemer that is Jesus Christ. To call any other “co-redeemer” or “co-redemptrix” would be a huge misstep, no matter how you try to dogmatically define it. It would result in anther huge area for the apologists to try to understand and explain to our non-catholic and anti-catholic bretheren.

Well jkirk Pope Benedict XV disagrees with you----I think ill go with the Holy Father!!!

 

[knightbvm]

actually Jkirk i understand what you are saying and it is a valid question–you arent denying the teaching you are questioning the prudence of the Pope formally defining the dogma—which is a very valid concern

 

[JRKH]

actually Jkirk i understand what you are saying and it is a valid question–you arent denying the teaching you are questioning the prudence of the Pope formally defining the dogma—which is a very valid concern

That would be a fair assessment. Although, to be frank, I would have to do some additional research to determine the exact teachings involved.
It is obvious from your handle that you are a devote of our Blessed Mother. I respect that. Nor do I deny her unique place in our faith. But I look at it like this.
Would your mother want you fighting with your bothers and cousins over her? Wouldn’t she rather be just plain mom and loved by her family?

Peace
James

 

[JMMK]

In Lumen Gentium Ch VIII

1. The Father of mercies willed that the incarnation should be preceded by the acceptance of her who was predestined to be the mother of His Son, so that just as a woman contributed to death, so also a woman should contribute to life. That is true in outstanding fashion of the mother of Jesus, who gave to the world Him who is Life itself and who renews all things, and who was enriched by God with the gifts which befit such a role. It is no wonder therefore that the usage prevailed among the Fathers whereby they called the mother of God entirely holy and free from all stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature.(5*) Adorned from the first instant of her conception with the radiance of an entirely unique holiness, the Virgin of Nazareth is greeted, on God’s command, by an angel messenger as “full of grace”,(286) and to the heavenly messenger she replies: “Behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it done unto me according to thy word”.(287) Thus Mary, a daughter of Adam, consenting to the divine Word, became the mother of Jesus, the one and only Mediator. Embracing God’s salvific will with a full heart and impeded by no sin, she devoted herself totally as a handmaid of the Lord to the person and work of her Son, under Him and with Him, by the grace of almighty God, serving the mystery of redemption. Rightly therefore the holy Fathers see her as used by God not merely in a passive way, but as freely cooperating in the work of human salvation through faith and obedience. For, as St. Irenaeus says, she “being obedient, became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race.”(6*) Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert in their preaching, “The knot of Eve’s disobedience was untied by Mary’s obedience; what the virgin Eve bound through her unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosened by her faith.”(7*) Comparing Mary with Eve, they call her “the Mother of the living,”(8*) and still more often they say: “death through Eve, life through Mary.”(9*)

It is a build on the concept of Jesus being the Second Adam. As Eve directly participated in the fall of Mankind, so did Mary directly participate in its redemption, more so than any other human, aside from Christ.

1. … For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer. Just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by the ministers and by the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is really communicated in different ways to His creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.
   The Church does not hesitate to profess this subordinate role of Mary. It knows it through unfailing experience of it and commends it to the hearts of the faithful, so that encouraged by this maternal help they may the more intimately adhere to the Mediator and Redeemer. …

It is a confusing title and one that should be reserved for theological circles only. When you start talking about things like this vocabulary is extremely important and it can be taken the wrong way very very quickly.

 

[Brendan]

Can I ask please, why is it so important that Mary is recoognised as Co-redemptrix? Isnt it enough that she is called Mother of God. Isnt there other things that the Church should be worried about? Also, if the Blessed Virgin is officially known as Co-redemptrix how will that affect peoples devotion to her? At this stage I can’t see any.

Because the Church has been charged with proclaiming all that is Sacred and True. If Truth exists, the Church has no choice but to proclaim it. It can’t pick and choose just because there are some who are ignorant and would not understand.

Rather, it is an opportunity for the ignorant to learn, instead of a call for the Church to be silent.

 

[sphilomena]

I am not familiar with this. Can you provide links-details etc.?

christendom-awake.org/pages/miravalle/miravalle.htm
Home Page for Dr. Mark Miravalle

Dr. Miravalle is the one who has probably written most widely on this. As many of you say, it is already believed and taught by the Church, but proclaiming it dogma will release untold graces. Yes, it will have to be understood properly, and there will still be controversy. The documents of Vatican II are quoted in it’s defense. Mary has three related titles - Co-Redemptrix, Advocate, and Mediatrix. (She is our Advocate to Jesus, and mediates for us to Him; never takes the place of Jesus.)

Here’s a link from EWTN also.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/our_lady_of_all_nations.htm
Our Lady of All Nations